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Ryanair - Daily Express!

Old 19th Apr 2013, 06:58
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Ryanair 738 with 300 passengers

I don't know how they did it but the story in the Times this morning about a crosswind landing at Leeds Bradford said they did. Well done !
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Old 19th Apr 2013, 07:23
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I don't know about 'Well done' as much as 'Phew - we got away with that one!'
The pictures in the Daily Mail seemed to raise some points.
Downwind of centre line just before touchdown, no apparent attempt to 'kick straight' on touchdown, the wing lifting after touchdown - into wind aileron?
Brown pants all round on the flight deck!
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Old 19th Apr 2013, 07:32
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Looks like some fun flying

Planes struggle to land in high winds as Britain is battered by gales of up to 72mph | Mail Online

The pictures are about half way down the page.
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Old 19th Apr 2013, 08:07
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Pics for those interested: Planes struggle to land in high winds as Britain is battered by gales of up to 72mph | Mail Online

More pictures if you scroll down the page of the aircraft straightened out, and other aircraft crabbing in the wind.

Last edited by andre1990; 19th Apr 2013 at 08:08.
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Old 19th Apr 2013, 08:11
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Crosswind Landings

Several UK papers are reporting a crosswing landing at Huddersfield yesterday as if such thing were rarer than honest politicians.

See here: Planes struggle to land in high winds as Britain is battered by gales of up to 72mph | Mail Online

I have two questions for those willing to educate:

1. I thought that on a crosswind landing you were meant to align the aircraft with the runway's centreline at the point shown in the first photograph below.

2. If, as it seems from the second photograph below, you touch the main gear down at an angle to the aircraft's direction of travel - just how much sideways force can the main struts of the undercarriage take?

Sensible replies gratefully welcome.

Thanks in advance.



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Old 19th Apr 2013, 08:30
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Children of the Magenta!!
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Old 19th Apr 2013, 08:33
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"Bit more rudder on the roundout next time, Hoskins..."
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Old 19th Apr 2013, 08:47
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"....IT'S COMIN' RIGHT FOR US!!!"
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Old 19th Apr 2013, 09:01
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B738 with 300 passengers??

111boy, are you sure? I know that Ryanair has made modifications to squeeze the maximum in, but 300!!??
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Old 19th Apr 2013, 09:09
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Typical Ryan Air.
You books flight to Leeds and they take you to Huddersfield!

Last edited by MANTHRUST; 19th Apr 2013 at 09:10.
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Old 19th Apr 2013, 09:10
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Plus, even if it's not ideal, many Boeings are designed to land with quite a bit of crab still on. Not pretty though!
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Old 19th Apr 2013, 09:18
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Ryanair 738 with 300 passengers
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Blimey, has MOL taken some seat rows out??

This is the Press we are talking about here, how many more times do we have to be told that there is no way the truth is going to get in the way of a good story.
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Old 19th Apr 2013, 10:14
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Grenville,

The 738 is cleared to land fully crabbed (ie no attempt to straighten up) up to the maximum crosswind limit. So in answer to your questions:

1. Not necesarily.
2. Enough.

Straightening up is prettier but landing with some crab on is desirable under certain circumstances. The aerolane will drag itself straight as soon as the main wheels touch the ground. Bear in mind also that as the autopilot has no rudder channel every crosswind autoland is crabbed on touchdown. Also, one doesn't fly a wing down, crossed controls approach in big jets.
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Old 19th Apr 2013, 10:35
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Also, one doesn't fly a wing down, crossed controls approach in big jets.
I wouldn't be so sure about that. After explaining the side-loads issue, my MD/Boeing FCOM says:

Below approximately 200 feet AGL, gradually apply rudder so as to
align the longitudinal axis (heading) of the airplane with the runway centerline. Control lateral drift by applying aileron into the wind. (the upwind wing will be lower), while continuing to apply opposite rudder to maintain fuselage alignment with the centerline of the
runway.


This technique was introduced only in the last year or so.

Bear in mind also that as the autopilot has no rudder channel every crosswind autoland is crabbed on touchdown.
I assume the Autoland crosswind limits are way below maximum limit...

Last edited by Capn Bloggs; 20th Apr 2013 at 14:40. Reason: Spelling!
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Old 19th Apr 2013, 10:42
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FWIW telephoto lenses tend to distort images and one of the things that get distorted is the crab angle. It looks much higher than it actually was, far below limits and not worth all the fuss.
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Old 19th Apr 2013, 10:58
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Bloggs, autoland crosswind limits are indeed lower but crabbed landings are possible up to the full crosswind limit. I'll amend what I said about the wing down technique to, the technique is generally not used on this type of aircraft and the FCTM specifically cautions about the risk of engine or flap strikes when using this technique in stronger crosswinds.

Agaricus, fairly exceptional wind conditions probably demand fairly 'assertive' flying.
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Old 19th Apr 2013, 11:06
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What is it about LBA and heavy cross wind landings?
I was on a BMI Regional EMB135 landing in heavy wind and rain at LBA.

Holy crap, I've never felt a plane wiggle and wobble so much. You could feel the tail swinging about with all the corrections the pilot was making. the wings were waving up and down at the same time. I was in the Starboard side over wing exit seat and saw how the rain was coming in at a perfect 90 degree angle to the wing leading edge.
When we hit the ground I actually slipped halfway out from under my seatbelt!

We had to have been close to the limits for the EMB135.

Thoroughly enjoyed it though
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Old 19th Apr 2013, 11:21
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I don't know about 'Well done' as much as 'Phew - we got away with that one!'
The pictures in the Daily Mail seemed to raise some points.
Downwind of centre line just before touchdown, no apparent attempt to 'kick straight' on touchdown, the wing lifting after touchdown - into wind aileron?
Brown pants all round on the flight deck!
It would have been a pretty hairy approach but 'well done' is certainly appropriate. Those pics and the video don't support your criticism.

Considering the strong, gusty conditions, the wings are almost completely level, the touchdown is slightly off centreline but safe, and kicking the rudder isn't essential - just read the FCTM.

'Brown pants', yes, but a job well done. The 'Children of the magenta line' (probably a 10,000 hr Captain with experience of other airlines) clearly did well. Just look at the other aircraft and their approaches...
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Old 19th Apr 2013, 15:57
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Ryanair - Daily Express!

Surprised no-one has picked this one up yet:

Terror as plane lands sideways | World | News | Daily Express

300 pax in a 737??
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Old 19th Apr 2013, 16:11
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Surprised no-one has picked this one up yet:
seen it, not news worthy
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