radio ham saves US plane
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: The Burrow, N53:48:02 W1:48:57, The Tin Tent - EGBS, EGBO
Posts: 2,297
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
HD, I shouldn't bother. He's probably had to translate from Gibberish to Irish to Level 1 English-for-FlightSimmers before posting which has left that unintelligible garbage. If he is trying to imply that I don't know what it is like to be airborne without a means of communication he's picked on the wrong person. I know only too well how it feels.
Sodapop - I tried to look at your link but for some reason it won't open. I'm not going to push it as in the past I have managed to open links only to find them harbouring a nasty virus.
SOPS, my experience was that they all spoke with an American accent and didn't bother to identify themselves as is required. Presumably they regard 121.5 as their personal chat frequency and don't like others using it for its real purpose. Either that, or they are completely ignorant of its real purpose and the fact that we are blessed with what I regard as the best and only dedicated D&D service which operates 24 hrs a day and is free to all, including the idiots, when in need.
Sodapop - I tried to look at your link but for some reason it won't open. I'm not going to push it as in the past I have managed to open links only to find them harbouring a nasty virus.
what is it with these people??
Last edited by DX Wombat; 16th Nov 2012 at 21:51.
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: flying by night
Posts: 500
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
DX Wombat, the video is a true classic.
Setting: A new employee at a German Coastal Radio Station hears a ship transmitting "Mayday, mayday. We are sinking!"
He eventually replies, with a heavy German accent "Zis is the German Coast Guard.... Wat are you zinking about?"
A Berlitz (language school) commercial.
Setting: A new employee at a German Coastal Radio Station hears a ship transmitting "Mayday, mayday. We are sinking!"
He eventually replies, with a heavy German accent "Zis is the German Coast Guard.... Wat are you zinking about?"
A Berlitz (language school) commercial.
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Berkshire, UK
Age: 79
Posts: 8,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would not agree that Ofcom could readily detect the use of high power as there are so many factors involved in the strength or a received signal. For example, the distance of the transmitter from the Ofcom receiving station (still at Baldock?), time of day, solar activity and type of antenna and length of transmission line in use.
A faulty Freeview box would have been found presumably as a result of a complaint of interference to Ofcom. You cannot compare this with the detection of particular power levels on HF R/T.
There is virtually no policing of the radio spectrum in the UK. Well, certainly not to the same levels as when I obtained my amateur licence. In those days stations inspections were fairly common several times per year. Now, it must be 20 years since a radio inspector visited my station.
A faulty Freeview box would have been found presumably as a result of a complaint of interference to Ofcom. You cannot compare this with the detection of particular power levels on HF R/T.
There is virtually no policing of the radio spectrum in the UK. Well, certainly not to the same levels as when I obtained my amateur licence. In those days stations inspections were fairly common several times per year. Now, it must be 20 years since a radio inspector visited my station.
Last edited by HEATHROW DIRECTOR; 17th Nov 2012 at 19:13.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Queensland, Australia
Age: 71
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SLF but one whose job involved a lot of RF transmissions at various frequencies plus a fair bit of liaison with OFCOM....
I can confirm that OFCOM rarely, if ever, goes searching for violations of regulations unless there has been a complaint submitted about somebody causing interference.
I can confirm that OFCOM rarely, if ever, goes searching for violations of regulations unless there has been a complaint submitted about somebody causing interference.
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: London
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think that OFCOM would have noticed an unlicensed 1.2kW transmission, they're pretty capable at this sort of thing. They've got quite a nice pile of kit for spotting troubling / unauthorised transmissions, and have statutory powers and duties in this line. An unlicensed 1.2kW transmission (which is quite a BIG signal after all) would certainly raise eyebrows on even the most casual of official observers. Is it possible that your information about his license is wrong?
The number of 'novice' radio amateurs breaking their licence conditions by exceeding their maximum power output is huge, many using 100w, some 1kw, a few are using even more than that.
Where-as many countries have frequency restrictions on their novice radio amateurs, in the hope they will progress through the licence structure, the U.K. elected for power restrictions which cannot realistically be enforced, and these novices have no reason to ever progress, they can do whatever they wish without any fear of licence revocation.
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: London
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think that OFCOM would have noticed an unlicensed 1.2kW transmission, they're pretty capable at this sort of thing. They've got quite a nice pile of kit for spotting troubling / unauthorised transmissions, and have statutory powers and duties in this line. An unlicensed 1.2kW transmission (which is quite a BIG signal after all) would certainly raise eyebrows on even the most casual of official observers. Is it possible that your information about his license is wrong?
Day in and day out, many novice radio amateurs in the UK breach their licence conditions by varying magnitudes, a large number using 100w transceivers at their full power, a small number using external amplifiers of in excess of 1kw output, the maximum for full licence holders is 400w in the U.K.
Many countries place easily enforceable frequency use restrictions on their novices, in the hope these novices will progress through the license structure, where-as the U.K. chose to have power restrictions that cannot realistically be enforced. The majority of novice radio amateurs in the U.K. know they can effectively do whatever they want without any chance of license revocation.
The gentleman in this case is a novice (foundation licence holder), he has an MI3 callsign, and a restriction of 10w.
I hesitate to venture onto this particular forum, because in the strictest sense I don't qualify to do so.
However, as a radio amateur, I've followed this thread with considerable interest. I don't think there is sufficient specific information on the frequencies used in this event to make an accurate call as to whether regulations were broken or not.
If the communications were on a frequency outside of the designated amateur allocations then it becomes interesting, since in Australia anyway a person is not permitted to be in possession of a transmitter which can operate on frequencies other that those for which the operator is licensed. More specifically (and realistically) it is not legal for a licensed amateur to possess an (amateur) transmitter capable of transmitting outside of the designated amateur band allocations, unless of course he is so licensed to own and operate that equipment. It gets messy.
If this event took place outside of the designated amateur allocations and it comes to the notice of the licensing authorities (as it almost certainly has), then I would expect that a courtesy call to the station owner would be made and certain technical matters discussed and checked.
As a complete aside, I once had a very interesting and unusual AR contact with a licensed amateur who was aboard a commercial flight and who was at that time a guest in the cockpit of the aircraft and who used the aircraft HF equipment to go onto the 20 metre amateur band. It was a long time ago, and obviously he had friends in high places. It would never happen today.
FOR (now QRT)
However, as a radio amateur, I've followed this thread with considerable interest. I don't think there is sufficient specific information on the frequencies used in this event to make an accurate call as to whether regulations were broken or not.
If the communications were on a frequency outside of the designated amateur allocations then it becomes interesting, since in Australia anyway a person is not permitted to be in possession of a transmitter which can operate on frequencies other that those for which the operator is licensed. More specifically (and realistically) it is not legal for a licensed amateur to possess an (amateur) transmitter capable of transmitting outside of the designated amateur band allocations, unless of course he is so licensed to own and operate that equipment. It gets messy.
If this event took place outside of the designated amateur allocations and it comes to the notice of the licensing authorities (as it almost certainly has), then I would expect that a courtesy call to the station owner would be made and certain technical matters discussed and checked.
As a complete aside, I once had a very interesting and unusual AR contact with a licensed amateur who was aboard a commercial flight and who was at that time a guest in the cockpit of the aircraft and who used the aircraft HF equipment to go onto the 20 metre amateur band. It was a long time ago, and obviously he had friends in high places. It would never happen today.
FOR (now QRT)
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Berkshire, UK
Age: 79
Posts: 8,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
<<in Australia anyway a person is not permitted to be in possession of a transmitter which can operate on frequencies other that those for which the operator is licensed. >>
Eminently sensible. In the UK anyone can buy off the shelf transmitting equipment for various bands without any qualifications. This led to an interesting incident many years ago at a major airport when a kid with an airband transceiver fancied himself as an air traffic controller and dished out a few instructions. 'nuff said.
Eminently sensible. In the UK anyone can buy off the shelf transmitting equipment for various bands without any qualifications. This led to an interesting incident many years ago at a major airport when a kid with an airband transceiver fancied himself as an air traffic controller and dished out a few instructions. 'nuff said.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: The Burrow, N53:48:02 W1:48:57, The Tin Tent - EGBS, EGBO
Posts: 2,297
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
HD, I think that may have changed a little, certainly both my Yaesu 857 and FT60, both bought new in the UK, are receive only on the airband frequencies but as both are used for the most part for my RAYNET activities that isn't a problem. The ICOM, which is older, can both receive and transmit which is why I have it for in-flight back up.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 5,898
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Anybody still here from United? Did this make the news on the union forum or the company ops newsletter?
Can any of you radio experts come up with a scenario that matches the details as reported? It sure sounds like BS to me as a pilot.
Being an American, if I thought I could 'save hundreds of lives' I'd do it and let the geniuses here and elsewhere decide later if it was legal.
Here's a thread on another forum that is skeptical of the event as reported:
Ham Radio operator saves a United flight ? | LiveATC.net
Jetscan1's second post seems to closely echo my findings here about the pictured log sheet and cancelled flights.
Benny's ham license listing is here: MI3JQD - Callsign Lookup by QRZ.COM
Can any of you radio experts come up with a scenario that matches the details as reported? It sure sounds like BS to me as a pilot.
Being an American, if I thought I could 'save hundreds of lives' I'd do it and let the geniuses here and elsewhere decide later if it was legal.
Here's a thread on another forum that is skeptical of the event as reported:
Ham Radio operator saves a United flight ? | LiveATC.net
Jetscan1's second post seems to closely echo my findings here about the pictured log sheet and cancelled flights.
Benny's ham license listing is here: MI3JQD - Callsign Lookup by QRZ.COM
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Berkshire, UK
Age: 79
Posts: 8,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
DX Wombat.. But if you visit a dedicated pilot shop you can buy an airband trransceiver without too much difficulty. I got as far as "checkout" with several dealers and there was no suggestion that I needed a licence.. I'd be glad to know that I am wrong.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: The Burrow, N53:48:02 W1:48:57, The Tin Tent - EGBS, EGBO
Posts: 2,297
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
HD, Mine didn't come from a Pilot shop but from ML&S which is a dedicated Ham Radio shop and the ICOM from another pilot who no longer needed it. I'll try to contact ML&S and find out a bit more as they are usually very much on the ball when it comes to such matters.
Just had a look at his logbook entries on QRZ - most wierd. Many out of sequence, only two contact entries made with individual persons during the period when the hurricane was still a tropical storm and these before the date of the alleged incident.
I too, am beginning to hear squeaking.
Just had a look at his logbook entries on QRZ - most wierd. Many out of sequence, only two contact entries made with individual persons during the period when the hurricane was still a tropical storm and these before the date of the alleged incident.
I too, am beginning to hear squeaking.
Last edited by DX Wombat; 18th Nov 2012 at 14:22.
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: London
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I wouldn't pay much attention to 'his' qrz logbook as only a small % use it, the entries could easily be those who have uploaded their qso's with him, therefore appear in his logbook.
I suspect the MI3 was the subject of a wind-up, rather than making it up, and that it took place on the amateur bands. Career foundation licence holders tend not to be the brightest lamps in the street, the exam is easily passed by young children. the M3 prefix was used up some years ago, and M6 has been issued since 2008 for foundation licnces. He has been stuck on the bottom rung of the ladder for a long time.
Failing that, just some mix up with a /AM operator on the amateur bands, they do exist but not in the numbers there used to be.
I suspect the MI3 was the subject of a wind-up, rather than making it up, and that it took place on the amateur bands. Career foundation licence holders tend not to be the brightest lamps in the street, the exam is easily passed by young children. the M3 prefix was used up some years ago, and M6 has been issued since 2008 for foundation licnces. He has been stuck on the bottom rung of the ladder for a long time.
Failing that, just some mix up with a /AM operator on the amateur bands, they do exist but not in the numbers there used to be.
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: EGNH
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As a complete aside, I once had a very interesting and unusual AR contact with a licensed amateur who was aboard a commercial flight and who was at that time a guest in the cockpit of the aircraft and who used the aircraft HF equipment to go onto the 20 metre amateur band. It was a long time ago, and obviously he had friends in high places. It would never happen today.
In the UK it is not illegal to own amateur equipment capable of transmiting outside the amateur bands, it's only illegal to use it in such a manner, and as far as I can recall I've never heard of amateur equipment that can transmit on VHF airband, HF only, however with the influx of Chinese tat on ebay that may not be the case any longer
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Berkshire, UK
Age: 79
Posts: 8,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From the Radio Society of Great Britain web site:
<<The RSGB regrets that the story reported last week concerning an amateur assisting an American aircraft diversion appears to be unfounded. The item was broadcast by GB2RS in good faith on the basis of reports from BBC news and other media organisations.>>
<<The RSGB regrets that the story reported last week concerning an amateur assisting an American aircraft diversion appears to be unfounded. The item was broadcast by GB2RS in good faith on the basis of reports from BBC news and other media organisations.>>
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Glasgow
Age: 73
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I raised this with the BBC. Somewhat to my surprise, they replied. They have added an update at the start of the article which reads:
Update 27 November 2012: Further checks have shown United Airlines does not fly from Dublin to Boston. Irish and US aviation authorities also say they have no record of these events.
This information was put to Mr Young, who did not wish to comment.
It is a pity that they did not do this checking earlier but, fair play to them, at least they did it in the end.
SFS
Update 27 November 2012: Further checks have shown United Airlines does not fly from Dublin to Boston. Irish and US aviation authorities also say they have no record of these events.
This information was put to Mr Young, who did not wish to comment.
It is a pity that they did not do this checking earlier but, fair play to them, at least they did it in the end.
SFS
