A321 Range Question - MON5329/21SEP
Don't listen to him chaps - he's a troll.
From here:
http://www.pprune.org/cabin-crew/493...y-easyjet.html
Obviously, he's a people person!
spottilludrop
Join Date: Feb 2012
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Any one the size the OP is should not be allowed to fly ,there a nightmare, they wreak the seats, make life a misery for the person seated next to them, increase the fuel burn and if the worst came to the worst would be a total liabilty blocking the aisles and exits ...ban em until they sort themselves out
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Brum
Age: 36
Posts: 36
Any one the size the OP is should not be allowed to fly ,there a nightmare, they wreak the seats, make life a misery for the person seated next to them, increase the fuel burn and if the worst came to the worst would be a total liabilty blocking the aisles and exits ...ban em until they sort themselves out
http://www.pprune.org/cabin-crew/493...y-easyjet.html
Obviously, he's a people person!
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What, you'd suddenly be able to do your job better if you got a pay rise?
Why don't you try and earn a pay rise by proving that you can actually work better?
Why don't you try and earn a pay rise by proving that you can actually work better?
If you've worked for a ground handling agent you'll know what their pay scales and promotion opportunities are like. Generally you only get promoted if they want to axe you... As for pay rises, yeah right At my station soon we'll be responsible for marshalling the aircraft on stand, currently done by Airfield Ops who are on £40k+ per year at the moment. Are we getting paid anymore for it? No, still £7 per hour...
I personally can't wait for the day a set of steps are impaled into the wingtip
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All due respect to the 'Thread Drifters' but if PSA's, Airfield Op's or Groundstaff have 'A bad day at the office', it results in p*ssed of pax, pilots & customers filing complaint forms.
If a Pilot, Engineer or ATC'er has 'A bad day' it will probably end in a smoking hole in the ground, deaths & the end of an airline with lots of people in mourning or heading for the dole queues or both.
HENCE why Pilots, Engineers & ATC'ers are LICENCED, checked regularly & draw higher salaries. Speaking for Pilots, with 2 medicals per 12 month & 2 Sim' checks per year we are exposed to losing our Licence & livelihood before you factor in the usual reasons for losing ones job!
Rant over & PLEASE can we get this thread back on tack???
If a Pilot, Engineer or ATC'er has 'A bad day' it will probably end in a smoking hole in the ground, deaths & the end of an airline with lots of people in mourning or heading for the dole queues or both.
HENCE why Pilots, Engineers & ATC'ers are LICENCED, checked regularly & draw higher salaries. Speaking for Pilots, with 2 medicals per 12 month & 2 Sim' checks per year we are exposed to losing our Licence & livelihood before you factor in the usual reasons for losing ones job!
Rant over & PLEASE can we get this thread back on tack???
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All due respect to the 'Thread Drifters' but if PSA's, Airfield Op's or Groundstaff have 'A bad day at the office', it results in p*ssed of pax, pilots & customers filing complaint forms.
If a Pilot, Engineer or ATC'er has 'A bad day' it will probably end in a smoking hole in the ground, deaths & the end of an airline with lots of people in mourning or heading for the dole queues or both.
HENCE why Pilots, Engineers & ATC'ers are LICENCED, checked regularly & draw higher salaries. Speaking for Pilots, with 2 medicals per 12 month & 2 Sim' checks per year we are exposed to losing our Licence & livelihood before you factor in the usual reasons for losing ones job!
Rant over & PLEASE can we get this thread back on tack???
If a Pilot, Engineer or ATC'er has 'A bad day' it will probably end in a smoking hole in the ground, deaths & the end of an airline with lots of people in mourning or heading for the dole queues or both.
HENCE why Pilots, Engineers & ATC'ers are LICENCED, checked regularly & draw higher salaries. Speaking for Pilots, with 2 medicals per 12 month & 2 Sim' checks per year we are exposed to losing our Licence & livelihood before you factor in the usual reasons for losing ones job!
Rant over & PLEASE can we get this thread back on tack???
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750XL
As alien a concept as it may be for you to grasp, we ARE trained to carefully inspect vital docs such as Loadsheets, NOTOC's, Tech. Logs, Flight Plans, MELs, CDL's & a whole host of other paperwork both industry standard & particular to an airport, country, operating authority or charterer.
In addition to studying for & passing exams in Aviation Law, Navigation Theory, Nav. Plotting, Met Theory, Met Practical, Instruments, Radio Aids, Flight Planning, Morse Code, Gas Turbines, Piston Engines, Theory of Flight, Flying Controls, Performance Groups A, C & E, Type Specific Technical Examinations (all with either 100% required pass marks or an archaic Penalty Marking System) General Flying Tests (3 of), Instrument Flying Tests (including extensive scrutinised flying of a twin engined aircraft with one 'shut down'), demanding & stressful simulator conversions & checks where career progression & continuation is on the line, line training sectors where 'Choppers' can end a career easier than it has started, demanding first jobs, sometimes flying knackered aircraft, at night in all weathers just to gain enough experience to join 'The Lo Costs' or Beach Fleets where we can be separated from our families or too knackered on days off to enjoy quality time off with our children whilst paying off around £100k of debt amassed while conducting the training that has blessed me with a job where I frequently get as little as 12 hours notice of a duty change, few weekends off & treated with a rapidly reducing amount of respect by passengers, non-flying management & the general public alike who seek to undermine our already diminished authority as Aircraft Captains. So I think we can & indeed have already spotted 'irregularities' on paperwork made by tired, overworked, underpaid, undervalued, p*ssed off Groundstaff, because we are an increasingly growing number of tired, overworked, underpaid, undervalued, p*ssed off PROFESSIONAL pilots, engineers & ATC'ers.
Did I mention we are also trained in CRM?
As alien a concept as it may be for you to grasp, we ARE trained to carefully inspect vital docs such as Loadsheets, NOTOC's, Tech. Logs, Flight Plans, MELs, CDL's & a whole host of other paperwork both industry standard & particular to an airport, country, operating authority or charterer.
In addition to studying for & passing exams in Aviation Law, Navigation Theory, Nav. Plotting, Met Theory, Met Practical, Instruments, Radio Aids, Flight Planning, Morse Code, Gas Turbines, Piston Engines, Theory of Flight, Flying Controls, Performance Groups A, C & E, Type Specific Technical Examinations (all with either 100% required pass marks or an archaic Penalty Marking System) General Flying Tests (3 of), Instrument Flying Tests (including extensive scrutinised flying of a twin engined aircraft with one 'shut down'), demanding & stressful simulator conversions & checks where career progression & continuation is on the line, line training sectors where 'Choppers' can end a career easier than it has started, demanding first jobs, sometimes flying knackered aircraft, at night in all weathers just to gain enough experience to join 'The Lo Costs' or Beach Fleets where we can be separated from our families or too knackered on days off to enjoy quality time off with our children whilst paying off around £100k of debt amassed while conducting the training that has blessed me with a job where I frequently get as little as 12 hours notice of a duty change, few weekends off & treated with a rapidly reducing amount of respect by passengers, non-flying management & the general public alike who seek to undermine our already diminished authority as Aircraft Captains. So I think we can & indeed have already spotted 'irregularities' on paperwork made by tired, overworked, underpaid, undervalued, p*ssed off Groundstaff, because we are an increasingly growing number of tired, overworked, underpaid, undervalued, p*ssed off PROFESSIONAL pilots, engineers & ATC'ers.
Did I mention we are also trained in CRM?
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I think that's obvious.
You don't think I'll sign your load sheet until I've checked it and find it acceptable do ya?
You don't think I'll sign your load sheet until I've checked it and find it acceptable do ya?
Thanks
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Spottilludrop
Envy is a terrible, terrible thing.
750XL
Most airlines have, as you know, an SLP, or Standard Loading Plan to those who don't know. It is devised to be simplistic to check yet guaranteeing that the aircraft will be trimmed most efficiently & balanced for all phases of flight while reducing weight as it burns off fuel. One Third- Two Thirds or 1st 100 Bags in Hold 3, next 100 in hold 4, next 50 in hold 2, remainder in hold 3 are 2 of the systems I've encountered & they are easy to check within a couple of minutes on a pocket calculator, as are the passenger distributions in the cabin zones. This data is either taken from the Computerised Load Sheet or Load Form. If it's from the CLS, the aircraft details will be in the database & the take off Stab' trim setting will be calculated & displayed on the CLS. We are used to seeing a Stab Trim setting between a particular range of units. If you had inserted the wrong data into the wrong boxes, the Stab Trim setting will be abnormal & out of the usual range, triggering further investigation, possibly a total offload of pax & bags and starting the loading/boarding process again.
If your 'incorrect' data in 'incorrect' boxes arrives on a Manual Load Form, we have Manual Trim Sheets where bag & pax weights & indices are totalled & the data is plotted on a graph. The resultant MACTOW is plotted & corresponding Stab Trim setting is obtained. If the calculated trim setting is abnormal, we give the Manual Load Form back to the Dispatcher for further investigation & possible offload.
If however, you are saying that your 'incorrect' information is in the hands of the Ramp Staff & that they may 'Mis-Load' the aircraft, that is another matter. That 'failsafe' is hopefully covered by vigilant Pilots who note abnormalities such as more bags going in the front that the back, chatting to Rampers about how other airlines load similar aircraft & by the Rampers querying unusual loading practices.
Cabin distribution isn't a problem as Cabin Crew are trained to spot if the passenger seating distribution isn't normal & they will re-locate passengers if necessary after liaising with the Flight Deck Crew. If this happens, the Dispatcher will be quizzed by the Captain before he signs & accepts the Load sheet.
Envy is a terrible, terrible thing.
750XL
Most airlines have, as you know, an SLP, or Standard Loading Plan to those who don't know. It is devised to be simplistic to check yet guaranteeing that the aircraft will be trimmed most efficiently & balanced for all phases of flight while reducing weight as it burns off fuel. One Third- Two Thirds or 1st 100 Bags in Hold 3, next 100 in hold 4, next 50 in hold 2, remainder in hold 3 are 2 of the systems I've encountered & they are easy to check within a couple of minutes on a pocket calculator, as are the passenger distributions in the cabin zones. This data is either taken from the Computerised Load Sheet or Load Form. If it's from the CLS, the aircraft details will be in the database & the take off Stab' trim setting will be calculated & displayed on the CLS. We are used to seeing a Stab Trim setting between a particular range of units. If you had inserted the wrong data into the wrong boxes, the Stab Trim setting will be abnormal & out of the usual range, triggering further investigation, possibly a total offload of pax & bags and starting the loading/boarding process again.
If your 'incorrect' data in 'incorrect' boxes arrives on a Manual Load Form, we have Manual Trim Sheets where bag & pax weights & indices are totalled & the data is plotted on a graph. The resultant MACTOW is plotted & corresponding Stab Trim setting is obtained. If the calculated trim setting is abnormal, we give the Manual Load Form back to the Dispatcher for further investigation & possible offload.
If however, you are saying that your 'incorrect' information is in the hands of the Ramp Staff & that they may 'Mis-Load' the aircraft, that is another matter. That 'failsafe' is hopefully covered by vigilant Pilots who note abnormalities such as more bags going in the front that the back, chatting to Rampers about how other airlines load similar aircraft & by the Rampers querying unusual loading practices.
Cabin distribution isn't a problem as Cabin Crew are trained to spot if the passenger seating distribution isn't normal & they will re-locate passengers if necessary after liaising with the Flight Deck Crew. If this happens, the Dispatcher will be quizzed by the Captain before he signs & accepts the Load sheet.
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750, are you talking about completing a load sheet incorrectly or loading incorrectly because they're two different subjects.
Surely you'd know that!
Anyway, I can see into which hold the bags are being loaded. I can see where my passengers are sitting, however, my crew complete a bay split form.
We use standard passenger weights so that's a simple case of division.
Bags are weighed at check in so I know as well as you how much they weigh.
Cargo weights I can't help you with but we do check the order that the ULDs are loaded as a gross error check and that has been approved by the CAA.
Surely you'd know that!
Anyway, I can see into which hold the bags are being loaded. I can see where my passengers are sitting, however, my crew complete a bay split form.
We use standard passenger weights so that's a simple case of division.
Bags are weighed at check in so I know as well as you how much they weigh.
Cargo weights I can't help you with but we do check the order that the ULDs are loaded as a gross error check and that has been approved by the CAA.
Last edited by Lord Spandex Masher; 30th Sep 2012 at 22:32.
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A321 Range Question - MON5329/21SEP
I am bumping this thread because I would like to find out how frequently the snafu with the ACT on the long range 321s occurs. Can ant one help?
Never had a problem with one personally. The ACT relies on cabin differential pressure to force the fuel out. If there's a problem with that, then an electric pump can be activated - but I've never had to use it.
And operating costs. Which is why the 757 ended production in 2004 and the A321 keeps on selling.
A321 & B757 similar in size, vastly different in capabilities.
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In Company XX we flew LGW-Banjul-LGW on a A320. Two issues;
1. Toilets filled up to overflowing, A320 not great for anything futher than Europe.
2. Started with 180 pax (i think this was the capacity) first flight Tech stop Accra ( i think) on the way down and Malaga (i think) on way back.
By the time the season was out it went round trip without tech stopping, but pax load was 130 something (i think)
Those were the days of Commercial and fag packets!
1. Toilets filled up to overflowing, A320 not great for anything futher than Europe.
2. Started with 180 pax (i think this was the capacity) first flight Tech stop Accra ( i think) on the way down and Malaga (i think) on way back.
By the time the season was out it went round trip without tech stopping, but pax load was 130 something (i think)
Those were the days of Commercial and fag packets!
