Big Black Fence At MAN AVP
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jamesferns,
You have to understand that there are different categories of enthusiasts. Those that merely wished to look at planes and/or "collect aircraft numbers", as you put it, were perfectly happy to do so from ground level. This left the mounds relatively free for the photographers. You will find that a high percentage of aviation hobby photographers are not actually number crunchers. The problem now is that if views from ground level are more restricted this will encourage more spectators to use the mounds and these mounds have very limited capacity.
You have to understand that there are different categories of enthusiasts. Those that merely wished to look at planes and/or "collect aircraft numbers", as you put it, were perfectly happy to do so from ground level. This left the mounds relatively free for the photographers. You will find that a high percentage of aviation hobby photographers are not actually number crunchers. The problem now is that if views from ground level are more restricted this will encourage more spectators to use the mounds and these mounds have very limited capacity.
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[QUOTE=jamesferns;7119199]Im not anti spotter PH.
oh really? so far on this thread and the photo thread you have used the terms "witless spotter>these spotter types>some moronic spotter."
and described spotting as something for youngsters to do and basically not childish adults.
whats wrong with you man? its a hobby much like your bird watching and military history, open to all ages not just kids.
if you dont like it go some where else instead of berating other peoples hobbies and pastimes.
oh really? so far on this thread and the photo thread you have used the terms "witless spotter>these spotter types>some moronic spotter."
and described spotting as something for youngsters to do and basically not childish adults.
whats wrong with you man? its a hobby much like your bird watching and military history, open to all ages not just kids.
if you dont like it go some where else instead of berating other peoples hobbies and pastimes.
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Im not anti spotter PH did it myself as a sprog, However i do find it rather rich that a supposed adult is bemoaning the fact youngsters are allowed into "her" spotting arena, surely collecting aircraft numbers is something that is done in the main by youngsters so should we not be encouraging them rather than bemoaning the fact that kids having fun are spoiling the fun of bigger kids who perhaps have not really quite grown up yet
Get a life donnlass FFS
Hi James
I think you have misunderstood what I was saying there.
I dont mind kids who plane spot and take down numbers.
Thats great and they are the next generation after all and are after all very intelligent about their hobby.
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Been to the AVP or RVP today to check out the fence situation. The mesh is indeed quite high but it doesn't impede on your view towards the runway. Two of the mounds have been made higher for the photographers but unfortunately the addition of a roll of razor wire on top of the fence appears not to have been used in the overall height calculations for the mounds as the wire seems to get in the shot unless you are careful.
The concrete blocks that normally go under the fence have been set back around the car park edge (bit like tank traps) and cunningly covered in decking wood to create planters and seating, I think this is done more for looks than secrecy. It does actually look very nice so full marks to the management for this clever compromise.
The concrete blocks that normally go under the fence have been set back around the car park edge (bit like tank traps) and cunningly covered in decking wood to create planters and seating, I think this is done more for looks than secrecy. It does actually look very nice so full marks to the management for this clever compromise.
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I ain't a spotter I just drive the things you like taking pics of.
As such I suspect I visit more airfields than most spotters.
To be honest I think MAN should be thanked not critisied for all the efforts and money they provide to keep even some form of viewing area. Not many other airfields proved such a site. Most places that bit of ground would have been turned into car parking.
The fact is that the DFT dictate what they have to surround thier airfield with in regards to fencing. Then they have to do all the H&S and DFT risk assesments for the viewing area.
The taking to pieces of security and how there is holes in every setup is common conversation amongst pilots. Its not MAN that you should be focusing on its the DFT.
You should be saying poor sods at MAN have had another dictate issued but good on them for for lifting the viewing mounds and keeping the place open.
As such I suspect I visit more airfields than most spotters.
To be honest I think MAN should be thanked not critisied for all the efforts and money they provide to keep even some form of viewing area. Not many other airfields proved such a site. Most places that bit of ground would have been turned into car parking.
The fact is that the DFT dictate what they have to surround thier airfield with in regards to fencing. Then they have to do all the H&S and DFT risk assesments for the viewing area.
The taking to pieces of security and how there is holes in every setup is common conversation amongst pilots. Its not MAN that you should be focusing on its the DFT.
You should be saying poor sods at MAN have had another dictate issued but good on them for for lifting the viewing mounds and keeping the place open.
I'm not wishing to doubt anybody, or complicate the issue, but I seem to recall that a particular requirement for airport fire tenders was the ability to go straight through the fence in any given straight line to get to anywhere outside the fence in the unfortunate event of a departing aircraft failing to keep a positive rate of climb outside the fence.
As an engineer, I'm well aware that you can preferentially strengthen structures, and promote failure in a particular direction when loaded, but any change to a design has to be proven. If this has come from the wizards in whitehall and applies nationally, does this mean that every airfield has to think about re-equipping their fire service or having to reinforce the cabs of their heavy engines?
As an engineer, I'm well aware that you can preferentially strengthen structures, and promote failure in a particular direction when loaded, but any change to a design has to be proven. If this has come from the wizards in whitehall and applies nationally, does this mean that every airfield has to think about re-equipping their fire service or having to reinforce the cabs of their heavy engines?
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If you get fed up with the view - or lack of it, you can always indulge in a little trout fishing. 
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Does anybody know,if any other airports have started putting up the big black fences? I know not alot happens at Blackpool airport, but thers no sign of any new fencing going up, mind don't think its really necessary there for whats goes on there during the day...
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It is you're right there.
The AVP is owned by Bollin Valley Partnership but not sure about the road from the Romper, possibly the Council, Greater Manchester maybe?
If they left the runways in that state???????
The AVP is owned by Bollin Valley Partnership but not sure about the road from the Romper, possibly the Council, Greater Manchester maybe?
If they left the runways in that state???????
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If the latest EU madness in the form of this latest directive making any areas overlooking a airfield off limits if there within a 2km of the runway go ahead as it is expected too then its the end of spotting areas as we know them, Total lunacy and a victory for terrorism
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Are you sure that it's an EU directive? I know not of such. Plenty of excellent up close spectator areas on mainland Europe. The directive you speak of may only relate to preventing vehicles raming through fences etc. At the end of the day if a well organised terrorist cell want to have a pop at an airliner there are plenty of possibilities on the approach path anywhere from say 6 miles out. Stronger and more secure fences may deter the odd looney (they still exist) but nothing, I say again NOTHING, will deter a well trained and determined terrorist.
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How about the mound of grass just before the tunnels on the Wilmslow Road where the runway goes over the tunnels.
All that space on right side of the tunnels could easily hide someone with a rocket launcher or small missile.
How guarded is that?
Is there any way of spotting people who shouldnt be there?
And how is anyone going to be able to rev a vehicle up in the AVP to enough sped to ram the fence?
They would have to get the barrier and then even if they wanted a straight run they would have to wind their way around the mound, then there's the picnic tables to get around.
Now if anyone happens to drive a 45 ton truck into the AVP everyone will wonder what they're up to lol.
All that space on right side of the tunnels could easily hide someone with a rocket launcher or small missile.
How guarded is that?
Is there any way of spotting people who shouldnt be there?
And how is anyone going to be able to rev a vehicle up in the AVP to enough sped to ram the fence?
They would have to get the barrier and then even if they wanted a straight run they would have to wind their way around the mound, then there's the picnic tables to get around.
Now if anyone happens to drive a 45 ton truck into the AVP everyone will wonder what they're up to lol.
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If the latest EU madness in the form of this latest directive making any areas overlooking a airfield off limits if there within a 2km of the runway go ahead as it is expected too then its the end of spotting areas as we know them
Do you have a source for this? I know of no recent or pending EU communication (a Directive is just one type of many) covering this.
CF
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donnlass has a point.
The AVP must be well-endowed with image recording technology. - Carried by most of those who visit it to 'view aviation'.
As the access to this area is controlled and most of it's clients are enthusiasts with good intent, surely it makes partial sense to have the fence on the outer perimeter of the AVP. Otherwise the terrorist chaps are laughing at us.
No matter how high or strong you make the fence, or how much razor-wire adorns it, at some point, aeroplanes will appear above it, either landing or taking-off. It's the nature of the operation.
Do you designate a trumpet-shaped 'exclusion-zone' at each end of every runway to protect a/c until they are above the 'RPG/small-arms engagement-altitude'?
Plenty of places to hide in Tatton and Bruntwood Parks and no razor-wire.
The AVP must be well-endowed with image recording technology. - Carried by most of those who visit it to 'view aviation'.
As the access to this area is controlled and most of it's clients are enthusiasts with good intent, surely it makes partial sense to have the fence on the outer perimeter of the AVP. Otherwise the terrorist chaps are laughing at us.
No matter how high or strong you make the fence, or how much razor-wire adorns it, at some point, aeroplanes will appear above it, either landing or taking-off. It's the nature of the operation.
Do you designate a trumpet-shaped 'exclusion-zone' at each end of every runway to protect a/c until they are above the 'RPG/small-arms engagement-altitude'?
Plenty of places to hide in Tatton and Bruntwood Parks and no razor-wire.
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Wow Wombat!
I had no idea that was there, is it part of Runway Two Nature Trail?
We have always meant to walk it sometime but yes anyone can get down there with anything they like and I dont mean fishing rods
I had no idea that was there, is it part of Runway Two Nature Trail?
We have always meant to walk it sometime but yes anyone can get down there with anything they like and I dont mean fishing rods
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Or even the corner of Shadowmoss Road is a classic area for firing a missile if someone is desperate enough as planes are seconds from landing and just lifting off.