BA Retrojet - Its Happened

[Phileas Fogg]

Reminds me of British Air Ferries who copycatted the 'British' on their fleet.

[Capetonian]

It looks great....... but what happened to the beautiful Trident that was outside the building (Europa House?) near the the aircraft crossing at Hatton Cross?

Nothing beats the sight of the VC10 in BOAC livery though (or EAA).

[WHBM]

Originally Posted by Flightrider

For all the criticism levied at BA here

I don't think there is a lot; it's just some suggestions about making things even better.

BA's problem is that as a name it doesn't have a lot of heritage, only dating from 1974 (as a brand it's only 10 years older than Virgin Atlantic), whereas the other much older liveries mentioned above can have a name which the modern passenger (as opposed to an aviation history buff) can still understand. Apart from this select group nobody now has any memory of BOAC, or BEA, or Imperial, so you don't get the recognition of it from all those looking out from the gate.

So it is an authentic first-generation BA livery, nicely done. No OneWorld logo, no big website address down the side.

[Capetonian]

Surely the biggest mistake in BA's history was Robert Ayling's decision to waste £12 million painting the aircraft so that they looked like something the cat had sicked up. The idea was to move away from the idea of British Airways being a British airline, but rather, a global one.

To put it more simply, perhaps the biggest mistake in BA's history was Robert Ayling.

[WHBM]

Originally Posted by Capetonian

Surely the biggest mistake in BA's history was Robert Ayling's decision to waste £12 million painting the aircraft so that they looked like something the cat had sicked up. The idea was to move away from the idea of British Airways being a British airline, but rather, a global one.

No, I liked it a lot, the concept, how it was done, and what it represented. It was always interesting to see what today's one was, and I think a fair number of others liked it as well and were disappointed at the reaction. What we have today is just one of the many variations of it. And regarding Robert Ayling's strategies, he had far more successes than most in expanding BA's horizons. The multicolour tails, Go, kicking off OneWorld, you name it. Not what you expect from a lawyer at all. Yes, I know that his personality was an issue for many who met him, but the ideas were expansive and he encouraged the team to develop them in a way we have not seen since.

Regarding "what the cat did" mentioned above, exactly the same was initially said (literally) about Braniff's late-1960s innovative scheme (every aircraft a different overall colour), which was a great success for them.

[Flightrider]

Surely the biggest mistake in BA's history was Robert Ayling's decision to waste £12 million painting the aircraft so that they looked like something the cat had sicked up.

I disagree too. The principle was a good one and if the designs had been slightly more conservative (or should I say Conservative?) then I think it would have worked. The Scottish tartan, Irish dove, Celtic Rose and others were actually quite good schemes but it got seriously out of hand in one or two instances (Whale Rider and Nami Tsuru spring to mind) which I suspect de-railed the whole concept. Had the idea been implemented in a more moderate way, I see no reason why it couldn't still be present today.

And I disagree on one other count. Eddington had the timing on his side to achieve a lot, and failed dismally. Ayling actually moved the airline forward quite a long way during his tenure.

[Phileas Fogg]

I can recall 'Braniff' Concorde(s), if my memory serves me correct, temporarily 'N' registered, no prizes for guessing the colour

With Braniff, I recall, it was different types by colour, i.e. B747 fleet orange, as opposed to a different colour for every aircraft

[beamender99]

Surely the biggest mistake in BA's history was Robert Ayling's decision to waste £12 million painting the aircraft so that they looked like something the cat had sicked up.

I totally agree.
Throwing away good advertising space.
What part of the aircraft do you most easily see when at an airport or under a flight path like West London?
In addition this rubbish was plastered on everything, Screensavers, business cards etc etc. A total waste of time and a lot of money but those at the top would not listen.

[Phileas Fogg]

When boarding via an airbridge one doesn't even see the fuselage.

One time I was flying AF BHX/CDG believing it to be a Cityjet BAe146, seating config the same but, once seated, I looked out of the window asking myself "Where the phuck are the engines, indeed the wings?", it was only by pulling out the emergency card I appreciated I was actually sitting on a Blueline MD80 something!

[PaperTiger]

One more vote for the World Tails .

Yes, one or two were a bit garish but a brilliant concept which was killed not by widespread (or former PM) disapproval but by the cost.

[airsmiles]

The scheme is that which the 757s first entered service

I thought the whole point of a retro scheme is to paint the aircraft into a scheme that pre-dated that types period of operation. How many other airlines retro schemes were actually used on the relevant aircraft when it entered service?

May be the answer to BA's choice is that it's ashamed of its BOAC/BEA past?

[pax britanica]

Well done BA , and presumeably well done WW. Two good decsions in a month , this one and Captain B so perhaps behind the hard bastard CEO image is still a spark of the young man who wanted to fly airliners.

As to the livery it has to be this one , as others have said it is the right liverly for when the lovely 75 arrived and it looks great in it and of course it goes back to the day when memories of BEA/Short Haul were not far distant and in BA service the 75 was very much part of that operation, Suggestions of it being in BOAC livery would be ridiculous.( Maybe should have done that on the first 777-300?)

Moving onto Mr Ayling , it was a stupid decsion on the tails , diluted the brand done one the scale he chose. Had they just picked a few aircraft for the idea witha few key markets represented it would I think have worked well, all the positives and no negatives. Also he broke the Boeing stranglehold on BA by going for the A320 which from a passenger ' point of view is much much better than the 737 with more elebow room and beettr cabin ergonomics so he wasnt a complete idiot.

Driving by LHR today and maybe I will be lucky and get a glimpse-shame terminal 2 isnt still around ( not as a user of course) BAA could have organised a Euro retro day and turned the clock back even further.

PB

[crewmeal]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but when Neville Chamberlain waived his famous 'Munich' document back in 1938, didn't he get off a British Airways aircraft at Heston?

Neville Chamberlain 'peace for our time' flight ticket to 1938 meeting with Hitler in Munich goes under the hammer | Mail Online

I suppose in those days the logo wasn't much to look at.

[vserian]

Very nice and well done BA,

Does anyone knows if the bird is still there?
I am flying out from LHR today , need to get a snap of that 757 into my collection.

[renfrew]

crewmeal,
Yes, it was British Airways but a different company which merged with Imperial Airways in 1940 to become BOAC.
I agree with WHBM above that BA almost seem ashamed of their history which dates back to 1919.

[Groundloop]

No, I liked it a lot, the concept, how it was done, and what it represented. It was always interesting to see what today's one was, and I think a fair number of others liked it as well and were disappointed at the reaction.

But, as a corporate branding, it was TERRIBLE! I flew into Gatwick once from Boston and, as we taxied past the North Terminal, there was a line up of BA aircraft. Three of them (coincidence?) had the same World Scheme tail. There was an American family sitting behind me. One said "That's a colourful airline - what is it?". The mother replied "I don't know - but it must be Caribbean". That is why it was a complete and utter marketing disaster. Most people, particularly from outside the UK, had absolutely no idea what airline it was.

[WHBM]

Originally Posted by renfrew

Yes, it was British Airways but a different company which merged with Imperial Airways in 1940 to become BOAC..

To be precise it is the same company. When the "old" British Airways was merged up into BOAC in 1940, the company name was retained as a dormant company by the legal department. 33 years later it was still available, and was used to merge BEA and BOAC into.

Chamberlain's "Peace in our time" speech was actually given in front of Downing Street, but the waving of the piece of paper did take place at Heston, in front of his chartered British Airways Lockheed 14 G-AFGR. This had no livery at all, being unpainted aluminium.

Enough of history, back to Stokesay Castle.

[airsmiles]

Also he broke the Boeing stranglehold on BA by going for the A320 which from a passenger ' point of view is much much better than the 737 with more elebow room and beettr cabin ergonomics so he wasnt a complete idiot.

He went on record saying it came down to the price Airbus offered versus Boeings and "it wasn't a very difficult decision at all". It's just hard airline economics as it always is. It was Airbus that broke the Boeing stranglehold at BA and not Ayling.

[PaperTiger]

Suggestions of it being in BOAC livery would be ridiculous.

But pretty . I suppose you also think the US Airways' throwback 'buses (PSA, Piedmont, Allegheny) are "ridiculous" ?

Chacun à son goût...

...it was a stupid decsion on the tails , diluted the brand...

BA became the most talked-about airline - some good, some bad - but that's what brand recognition is all about surely.

ibid.

[Skipness One Echo]

But pretty . I suppose you also think the US Airways' throwback 'buses (PSA, Piedmont, Allegheny) are "ridiculous" ?

Well it would make more sense to have a BOAC aircraft flying to places that BOAC used to serve. That in the main was long haul so the ideal would be a B747, B767 or B777.