13yrs of hell
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From: birmingham
13yrs of hell
I have read to 18mths of hell as an outsider its getting a bit long- so lighten up. .I've survived 13yrs in aviation as a pilot and it hasn't been easy . .. .How would you like to go for an interview with a major airline and be asked who will look after your husband or on another occassion what about your sex life?. .or we prefer military pilots we really mean men. .. .What about when you get your dream job and your male collegue get all the attention on the sim ,but after work when everyone wants to get in your knickers unless of course you look like the back of a bus ; but chances are if you do you wouldn't have been hired in the first place.. .. .Yes I've had comments my bum, breasts, visible panty, makup etc some times funny others not.. .. .Some guys are gentlemen others friends some are not.. .. .At least this ladys guys on her clip board were partially clothed not like I've seen on some notice boards in some crew rooms. .. .You have to be very very brave to complain. You want to fit in, survive, be accepted . . .Other women can be worst with smug comments such as "I have never had any problems!" some kind of martyrism I beleive. .. .This is a message to both sexes If you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
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From: The Global village
Or if you can't take the heat, stay in the kitchen! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> . .. .Would I be incorrect in saying that aeroplane cockpits have been traditionally viewed as male domains, and although there are a couple of female F/O's in the company where I work, there is a "culture" change that has to necessarily be made whenever we (males) fly with these ladies.. .Not operational procedures, but changes to our personal behaviour (eg. I need to use more discretion when "adjusting" myself than I would with a male co-pilot) and vocabulary, (a) out of respect for the woman, and ([i]b[/b]) to avoid any possibility of a sexual overtures or a sexual harassment charge.. .. .Sure it's a purely professional relationship - the multi-crew environment - however there will ALWAYS be certain personal behaviour aspects that spill across the line delineating each member's role.. .Unless of course no-one talks, except for SOP's!
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From: here to eternity
Why would anyone want such pictures on their clipboard, partially-clad or not? What does it say about someone's attitude, professionalism or attention span? What message would it give a visitor to the flight deck?. .. .As I read the previous thread, the problem was not sexist attitudes, or "glass ceilings" or anything to do with those. I understood it to be about misuse of the rules against sexism for use as revenge for showing up poor performance and attitude.
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From: Vancouver Island
striking a cord:. .. .If some guy wants to get in your knickers you can always say no , I already have one as*h**e in there already. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> . .. .................. . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />
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From: USA
It's a great shame that, in these enlightend times, sexist issues are still prevalent. IMHO there is nothing smart in making sexist comments that degrade and humiliate. Percy, you should be ashamed!. .I remember, whilst working for a maintenance company nearly 20 years ago, a female mechanic (the only one) was made redundant during lean times. One of the reasons given for her dismissal? She couldn't lift a (707) brake unit on her own! Who could?
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2002
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From: birmingham
cat driver. . I only would have to say no if asked! and the answ is p off .so why do we females have to put up with such sh** I'm sure change the roles you would not like it . .put on a captains hat and you think you are captain of the Enterprise do you watch Star Trek?. .Stop living in a fantasy world, we are not impressed!prehaps the cabin crew are but pilots are a bit wiser .
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From: The Pub
Striking a chord I can appreciate what you say but you ceratinly are wrong in some of your comments.. .. .1. I think you'll find that most cabin crew are not impressed by "Captain Kirk" pilots either - maybe if you took time out to talk to them about your feelings you may indeed find this out - they are part of "your team" as well, and will back you up if you want to make a grievance.. .. .2. Which airline only employs female F.O's who don't "look like the back of a bus" because I for one would love to work in those "glamourous" conditions.. .. .3. LASTLY. No one is gonna take away from you the achievement of working in a male dominated enviroment for the past 13 years. You have paved the way for other women to take up the role - such as my girlfriend (who is an F.O. who are now making the career as pilot a more acceptable one for the fairer sex. BUT you cannot condem ther female pilots for not feeling the same way as you do. You may have had it tough but things are indeed different now - maybe you company needs to be brought into the 21st century a bit - I don't know. What I do know is that she is a woman sure of her position, skill, and competence, and she will follow the rules and exercise her right to free speech or complain if need be. However she is a strong independant woman who meets challenges head on and plays "guys" at their own game - using what she's got and often shocking them!!! More power to her!!!!! Everyone's differnet that's what makes life interesting.
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From: The Pub
Sorry bout spelling and missed out letters - I'm real tired. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />
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From: The World
striking a chord . .. .Gee I’ve flown with quite a few female F/O, some were good, and some were not so good. Fortunately they all had good attitudes that helped make for a safe operation. . .. .Generally speaking I found that the females had better attitudes then some of the male F/O’s. It was more difficult to fly with females, as others have pointed out, because you always had to be on your guard (read best behavior) because of this sex harassment issue. IMHO the issue has gotten completely out of hand. . .. .On layovers, boys will be boys, I make no excuses for them. But I’ve also seen some pretty raunchy female crewmembers, so give it a rest... . .. .I will agree that there is a double standard out there and it’s by no means just restricted to aviation. However there is a bigger problem in the overcompensating for it, thus creating injustices for the male... .. .Flying is suppose to be fun, you don't appear to be having fun anymore..
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From: Vancouver Island
striking a cord:. .. .Lighten up, I was trying to show you I was in your corner.. .. .I assure you I understand the cockpit enviorement and the gender issue, like most males here I am gender blind when it comes to CRM.. .. .I do not need you to suggest I think like a captain chances are very good I was one before you were born.. .. .So once again I was not denergrating you, lighten up.. .. .And in all fairness you brought up the subject of trying to get in your knickers.. .. ................... . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />
Uncle Pete
Joined: Jul 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
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From: Frodsham Cheshire
striking a chord. .. .I'm truly sorry that you have had to suffer this way. Your true friends will be there for you. I know!. .. .To the misoginists out there I believe there is a place for lady pilots on the flight-decks of modern aircraft.. .. .Remember it takes years to build a reputation and as many seconds to lose it!. .. .Take Care. .. .MP <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
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From: Denmark
No matter what ever; Males working together with females is, and will always be, a litle tense but a lot more interesting than else.. .. .I am not a pilot yet. I'm an engineer designing medical procesequipment. Not many girls here! And I miss them :-) !. .. .So guys and girls; Of course lets work together. Both accepting the nature mutual attraction. We cant fight that, nor should we.. .As long as we go along with respect for each other there is no problem. That goes for guys moderating there behaviors AS WELL AS girls not beeing so touchy!. .. .Peter
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From: Belgium
SAC yes we can see that you pilots are so much more wiser than us cabin crew is that PERHAPS why you can't spell. It seems to me that members of the opposite sex can work together fine its just a sad few who have a feminist chip on their shoulder and can't take a bit of light banter who spoil it for everyone else. Its the same in every environment where members of the opposite sex work together not just in the air. Get down off your high horse and get a life. Surely you have more important issues to worry about. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="rolleyes.gif" />. . . . <small>[ 15 March 2002, 08:27: Message edited by: Belgian Beauty ]</small>
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From: Here 'n' there!
SAC - while it is dreadful that you have been asked such things I think you missed the point; that there was something of a vendetta against MP by someone who appears not to be making the grade professionally. Such events undoubtedly happen elsewhere too - but that is no reason to condone her actions as MP's ex-management appear to have done. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="rolleyes.gif" />
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From: Europe
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">. .Stop living in a fantasy world, we are not impressed!prehaps the cabin crew are but pilots are a bit wiser </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">SAC, please explain to this dumb flight attendant why it is not OK for males to discriminate you because they percieve your gender as being inferior to theirs, while it is at the same perfectly acceptable for you to denigrate cabin crew because you percieve their intelligence to be lower than your own?. .. .A team is made up of different people.. .In a good team these differences enhance the sum of the total.. .In a d bad team people denigrate eachother for being different. . .. .SAC, the weak kick down and lick up; the strong don't need the kind of cr*ppy attitude you are displaying here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="rolleyes.gif" />. . . . <small>[ 15 March 2002, 14:20: Message edited by: flapsforty ]</small>
