BD705 MAN-ORD Going with Cargo Hold Panels missing

[Skipness One Echo]

So what's the biggest, most alarming thing that an A330 can legally be dispatched without?

My luggage?

[VAFFPAX]

So what's the biggest, most alarming thing that an A330 can legally be dispatched without?

My luggage?

Naomi Campbell.

S.

[Notso Fantastic]

Vaffpax, I do declare I think you're actually right. Whatever frame of mind you read post 1 in, it's actually extraordinary, but you can come to totally different conclusions about what the original meaning was. It was a bit naughty to respond to criticism with:

You know what Poster number 2...I was a carefull person asking in this forum...I am studying my ATPL you "prat" and for your remark I am now emailing all news companies

because it shows the motivation all along was getting a news splash and maybe a downpayment on a new KIA.

Funny how the thread has gravitated from 'dare this aeroplane get airborne with a queer panel' to 'dare this posting get airborne in Pprune with a queer meaning'!

Just a simple query would have got the answer! Why was it dramatised so? It reminds me of this silly thread: http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=328339
A little knowledge is a bad thing. People assume they have caught someone out!

[VAFFPAX]

NSF - I get you... to me the response to posts 2 and 3 sounded more like a childish "you were rude, clearly you're hiding something, I'm going to the press now" manoeuvre

Of course, I don't know the original motivation, so I can't speculate (yeah right!)



S.

[smudgethecat]

NSF you have hit the nail squarely on the head a little knowledge is indeed a dangerous thing and as long as we allow these characters armed with a camera, note book and not much else close to operating aircraft this sort of shock horror exposure will happen,lets be thankfull he did not make good his threat to take his photos and his crass comments to the press, as if he had we would have been in real danger of waking up to .... "HEROIC PLANE SPOTTER MOCKED AS HE VAINLY TRIED TO PREVENT DOOMED JUMBO TAKING TO THE SKIES blah blah

[j4ckos mate]

he raised a query, that is all, what isnt alarming to some professionals may be alarming to others, i do stuff at work thats run of the mill, yet it others see it as cavalier, all the poster was doing was checking, what would be the consequences of never checking? you lot are like wolves sometimes, either its open to the public or its not if its open to the public you should show them respect, you wouldnt have a job without us you know

[Notso Fantastic]

Well it wasn't actually 'just a query'. If you are going to come to a professional forum and denigrate the professionals of that industry (the 'ground crew', ie the ground engineers), because it was more than a little insulting to them (I am not one), then you are going to get a reaction when it is shown you were actually barking up the wrong tree. So the defence of 'he was only asking' doesn't apply- he was actually scoring a point back off ground staff whom he felt were dissing him AND he thought had neglected to do their job properly.

As to the public 'giving us a job', we have a very small sample of the public who visit here- a sample that is 'public' AND also 'computer nerds'- not yer average 'public' at all. You don't give me a job, right? My employer does. You buy a service off my employer, and I endeavour to provide that service on behalf of my employer, not you. When we understand each other clearly, you will stop pulling that one! If you don't want your head bit off, the answer is don't come to a professional forum and denigrate professionals in that industry!

[beefster]

The damage would more than likely have been caused by the door coming into contact with the Highloader i have seen it happen a few times at BHX normally it would be reported to the engineers who would remove the panel to be repaired or replaced at a later date. It is mush beter to fly without the panel than risk flying with a damaged one that could be ripped off during flight and who knows what damage could be caused to either the leading edges of the wing or even worse if injested through the engine

[Skipness One Echo]

Anyone remember that little old lady boarding an Aloha B737 who noticed a bloody great crack by the door and didn't want to disturb the aviation professionals?

*POP*

[glhcarl]

The damage would more than likely have been caused by the door coming into contact with the Highloader i have seen it happen a few times at BHX normally it would be reported to the engineers who would remove the panel to be repaired or replaced at a later date. It is mush beter to fly without the panel than risk flying with a damaged one that could be ripped off during flight and who knows what damage could be caused to either the leading edges of the wing or even worse if injested through the engine

My first thought, when I saw the picture was that a viewing port was damaged and you could not verify the door was locked, so the panel was removed to insure proper latching of the door. I guess the panel could be damage if a Highloader was used as a stand reach the door controls.

[spannersatcx]

My first thought, when I saw the picture was that a viewing port was damaged and you could not verify the door was locked, so the panel was removed to insure proper latching of the door. I guess the panel could be damage if a Highloader was used as a stand reach the door controls

There is no viewing port on a 330, the 'closed/locked' indicators stick out with the sides painted red so they can be seen.

[Fargoo]

I think the reason the original post was treated harshly was that it was originally posted in Rumours and News at the top of the forums and that it seemed to imply that something very dangerous had been pointed out and ignored.

If there had been a single photo with just the question about how it's allowed to fly in that condition then i'm sure a more reasonable answer would have been forthcoming.

Personally if someone shouted over to me and pointed something like this out i'd be more than happy to pop over and explain the situation to them (assuming I had time) , better to have someone say something than keep shut and have something genuinely dangerous go unnoticed.

[Jimmy08]

I am newby FO...is it me or do the tech guys seem to have a grudge against everyone or everything??? The guy asked a resonable question, it's not everyday you see half the 'panel' missing from the front of an a/c!!!

[smudgethecat]

I for one certainly do not have a problem with anyone asking a question about anything and had he posed the question politely without clearly implying the ground engineers were neglecting their responsibilities he would have received a polite response from me, however he didnt , how anyone who clearly has such scant knowledge of the subject can have the arrogance to come onto a aviation forum and lambast the very well qualified, dedicated people who maintain these aircraft without any knowledge of what had occured is beyond me, further if he was so concerned about the issue instead of taking photos to post on the internet why did he not report the problem before the A/C pushed, and finally its not at all unusual for a/c to operate with all manner of external fairings /panels etc missing, its why we have the MEL/CDL

[DeltaIndiaSierraPapa]

What I find so 'funny' is the OPs original intentions and motives. Also the fact that he is blatantly a liar. First of all this was posted in the Rumours section. in my opinion to stir up ****. Anybody who posts here or reads this site on a regular basis KNOWS that the media monitors this site, AND, that they rarely stray out of the Rumours section. Posting a pic like that I am surprised we did not see a 3 inch headline on one of the Red Tops saying something like:

"BMI RISKS PASSENGERS LIVES ON A FALLING APART A347 BOEING BUS!!"

Furthermore, he (the OP) gets rightfully slated in my opinion. He makes a blanket statement about the ground staff

No-one seemed to be bothered...in-fact the ground crew...you know the ones that are meant to be there for the safety of the aircraft but where actually just chatting and starting at me and them being amused that I am a plane spotter

I got news for you bud. Those ground staff are there for either loading bags, catering, pushback etc... And the 'security' personell are there to pat everyone down and check ID's. They do NOT have safety knowledge of the aircraft or it's systems. THAT is what engineers, pilots and dispatchers are for. Sure, safety is everyones responsibility, but I can say AS a dispatcher (not for bmi mind you) that the only people that actually SIGN OFF a flight and thereby hold legal liability are the Captain, the Dispatcher and the Engineer.

He (the OP) then goes on an claims he is studying for his ATPL and threatens us with going to the media...

You know what Poster number 2...I was a carefull person asking in this forum...I am studying my ATPL you "prat" and for your remark I am now emailing all news companies

Then he decides NOT to go to the media

It's prats like post no.2 that caused all the past crashes! a fear of reporting something out of feeling you will get torn apart!

Which crashes EXACTLY? Stir it Mate, Stir it up...

I'm not telling the papers...i would never do that...

But you just said you were emailing all the news companies!

Oh and BTW I worked in the BA terminal and have the utmost respect for BMI...

It hasn't been the "BA Terminal" in over 2 years. It is simply Terminal 3.

The only reason I wanted someone in ORD to take a pic was out of curiosity and to get your view after seeing the other pics...it's not BMI I was trying to do anything with...it was the contracted out ground crew...

What's your beef with Aviance, OCS, Alpha, Omniserve et al? Why do you have a problem with THEM? None of them sign off the aircraft. THAT goes down to bmi and bmi ALONE.

I have worked for many companies in the airport and for the same airline I have seen different companies be slack in a lot of things...not bmi but in general...

Huh?

Thanks for those last few replies aswell ...I used to think pilots did walkarounds...

They do. Always. An engineer might do one as well on arrival and the pushback team leader MUST do one prior to push back, either the Captain or FO ALWAYS do a walk around.

but since I remember that flightplans in most companies are done by dispatchers I thought maybe pilots dont always do the walkarounds...I didnt mean to say engineers...I meant just that there was only security guys and that all I thought I saw there and just a tug....

You say you worked for many different companies in the airport (couldn't stick with one huh?), which ones? Boots? The Food Court? Clearly not for an airline or handling agent because you clearly dont have a clue who does what on a turnaround....

I'll listen to the intelligent pilots who can view ither people's points of view thanks...there's a reason why pilots and cabin crew are who they are! it's because they have passed competency tests and have shown their good natured personality that is able to reason with people in a just way...

So by your reasoning Dispatchers and engineers dont have a clue about anything operationally as they have not taken these same competency tests. Next time I spot a hydraulic leak I will go get the trolley dolley. She will know what to do. What would I know? I havent taken their competency tests!

Thanks...Sorry I am not an ATPL'er...I just got annoyed at his Pre-judging that I am nothing just because I happen to enjoy watching a few planes at the airport every now and then...
I'm a PPL'er though...

Oh, but I thought you said you were studying your ATPL. So you are able to tool around in a Cessna (WHich I doubt as well) and tell LIES. FANTASTIC!!

I did know they do walkarounds but like i said before companies seem to have taken flight planning away from pilots and now the dispatcher does it...and I thought maybe they dont do a walk around at least on this occasion.

I dont know of any companies where the pilots do their own flight planning. That is the job of Ops and Dispatch. Sure the pilots can review them, and ask for deviations, but pilots fly planes. Ops and dispatch flight plan and do weight and balance so the pilots CAN fly their planes. We all have our roles.

Firstly I didnt think engineers or dispatchers would have seen it as I thought maybe they dont see that side of the plane...I only thought there would just be baggage handlers and a security guy that would have seen it..

****. There's a RIGHT hand side of the plane? I never knew.... Is there a wing and an engine over there as well? I always wondered where they hid that second engine!

Now look. I don't have a problem with someone askinga legitimate question. I am always too glad to help where my knowledge base allows me to do so. That said, this poster was insulting, childish, threatening and a LIAR! That, I cant stand for...

[StoneyBridge Radar]

To DeltaIndiaSierraPapa:

Stoney

[TURIN]

To DeltaIndiaSierraPapa:

I was going to post a very similar reply but gave up and went to bed last night as I thought "What's the use?"

However, on reflection, well done for taking the time to nail this once and for all.

[spannersatcx]

And the OP seems to of disappeared from this thread as well.

[jedigtr]

Just checked up on the a/c in question, and the FWD Cargo Door Access Panel 821RR, was damaged by a cargo loader on or about the 26th may and was removed IAW the CDL (Config Deviation List)

[Notso Fantastic]

DISP- very well put. A query is a query. This was something malicious, and needed nailing down. It was idiotic with all the backtracking and changing stories, resulting in abuse. It is postings like no.1 that are shameful here.