A340 of Iberia skids off runway in Quito
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I'm with Operationsair on this one, none of us are really qualified to say its a write off or not, firstly, all we have to look at is pictures, secondly, I would say that most people who have posted so far are not qualified Aircraft Engineers and thirdly the aircraft is still to be inspected analyzed by said pro's...then I would gather it all comes down to Iberia/the insurance company.
From the pictures, it looks like they are very lucky to have come to a halt where they did though, looks like a nasty drop just ahead of them.
Also, perhaps it was a female pilot, but as we don't know all the facts right now I don't see what difference that makes?
From the pictures, it looks like they are very lucky to have come to a halt where they did though, looks like a nasty drop just ahead of them.
Also, perhaps it was a female pilot, but as we don't know all the facts right now I don't see what difference that makes?
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Having seen the photos on airdisaster.com, I would be most surprised if this aircraft flies again.
The LH MLG was torn off, the CLG is buried up to the top of the wheels, and more critically it looks like the LH keel beam has been tortured. That is bonded monolitic carbon so *not terribly repairable*
Whether this puppy flies again will hinge on the condition of the wing skins and the spars, and the facilities available in Quito.
The LH MLG was torn off, the CLG is buried up to the top of the wheels, and more critically it looks like the LH keel beam has been tortured. That is bonded monolitic carbon so *not terribly repairable*
Whether this puppy flies again will hinge on the condition of the wing skins and the spars, and the facilities available in Quito.
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Write-off? Never.
Perhaps Iberia should ask Qantas to fix it, they seem to be able to get write-offs flying again.
From the photographs, this aircraft seems to be about as badly damaged as the Qantas B747 at Bangkok a few years ago.
Perhaps Iberia should ask Qantas to fix it, they seem to be able to get write-offs flying again.
From the photographs, this aircraft seems to be about as badly damaged as the Qantas B747 at Bangkok a few years ago.
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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Originally Posted by rainboe
Originally Posted by Parapunter
Rainboe. is there a reason why you're permanently angry?
g-z
s
p
-r
t
) tr.v. ex·as·per·at·ed, ex·as·per·at·ing, ex·as·per·ates 1. To make very angry or impatient; annoy greatly
.......nuff said?
Meanwhile chaps - back at the accident?
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A340 Quito
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CChzaDxxSJw
Interesting parking procedure...Looks quite tight
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CChzaDxxSJw
Interesting parking procedure...Looks quite tight
Warning Toxic!
Disgusted of Tunbridge
Disgusted of Tunbridge
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What are they talking about? There will be an engineering team out there today, assessing damage and sorting out an initial shopping list. Odds of getting back in the air- 95%....in 3 months? Engineers themselves are not good judges- look at the way car mechanics make that sucking in sound through the teeth and shake their heads, as if it is terminal....and all you need is your timing belt changed!
Busbert- for an education, you should look up the pictures of the Qantas 747. Worse than this.
Ex-as-per-at-ed-To make very angry or impatient; annoy greatly!
(for the benefit of Moderators with little patience!)
Busbert- for an education, you should look up the pictures of the Qantas 747. Worse than this.
Ex-as-per-at-ed-To make very angry or impatient; annoy greatly!
(for the benefit of Moderators with little patience!)
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Rainboe,
Thankyou for your interesting comments.
After looking at the pictures and applying my previous experience in such matters, I am of the technical opinion that it is f***ed.
2 engines poss write offs , other 2 engines for shop strip , 2 pylons, 4 gears , fuselage (visible damage) plus unknown damage......
$40M before you even start to think about how you are going to repair it(portable hangers etc) at Quito. Will be written off and sold for salvage (prob worth $10m ++ a good deal for the Airline and the Insurers)
Will buy you pint if I'm wrong !!!
Thankyou for your interesting comments.
After looking at the pictures and applying my previous experience in such matters, I am of the technical opinion that it is f***ed.
2 engines poss write offs , other 2 engines for shop strip , 2 pylons, 4 gears , fuselage (visible damage) plus unknown damage......
$40M before you even start to think about how you are going to repair it(portable hangers etc) at Quito. Will be written off and sold for salvage (prob worth $10m ++ a good deal for the Airline and the Insurers)
Will buy you pint if I'm wrong !!!
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Okay
Thats it I am bored of the petty squabbling.
I am willing to take odds on this 4-1ON for Rainboe will sort out the other odds later.
Otherwise for a bit of fun, Mods could we have a poll then we can see if it flies again who has egg on their faces. Also with the poll could we please name who has taken what vote.
Thats it I am bored of the petty squabbling.
I am willing to take odds on this 4-1ON for Rainboe will sort out the other odds later.
Otherwise for a bit of fun, Mods could we have a poll then we can see if it flies again who has egg on their faces. Also with the poll could we please name who has taken what vote.
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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You are having a giraffe are you not? Danny kindly passed this thread to PPP and me so the willy-waving can continue unabated, and also I am afraid we are not licensed for gambling here.
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Duplicated on R&N
Irrelevant
As can be seen from other photos, the acft is at quite an angle and on soft ground; I'm no expert on recovery and the various thingies you need to recover a large airliner, but it occurs to me that it will be extremely difficult to move this machine without exacerbating the damage. No doubt Airbus will be assisting and can advise on lift points for aircraft like this.
(Another factor could be the fact that the type of lifting gear required may not be available in Quito and the only way you can bring it in is by air ... and the airport is closed - Catch 22?)
Irrelevant
As can be seen from other photos, the acft is at quite an angle and on soft ground; I'm no expert on recovery and the various thingies you need to recover a large airliner, but it occurs to me that it will be extremely difficult to move this machine without exacerbating the damage. No doubt Airbus will be assisting and can advise on lift points for aircraft like this.
(Another factor could be the fact that the type of lifting gear required may not be available in Quito and the only way you can bring it in is by air ... and the airport is closed - Catch 22?)
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The pictures seem to show a lot of real damage, fair to say. It could be possible to repair it if they really want to throw enough money at it (and time) . But it all boils down to money needed and value. A340 has lost the race to 777 by leaps and bounds in the marketplace. And residual values for operable aircraft are quite low. I understand huge discounts are there for the asking on both new and preowned. It may simply not be worth it to repair .
AlwaysOnFire
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Latest speculation is that it´ll be cut up, too risky to move it anywhere.
Airport seem to be open again, 200meter less runway, so access is a bit restricted.
Airport seem to be open again, 200meter less runway, so access is a bit restricted.
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Well I guess they can do a lot to a damaged bird, it's probably depending what the airline and the insurance co's are opting.
see this LH 747, was also looking awfull but still flies.
http://www.airdisaster.com/photos/d-abyu/photo.shtml
see this LH 747, was also looking awfull but still flies.
http://www.airdisaster.com/photos/d-abyu/photo.shtml
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On any other main airport the aircraft could be saved and repaired, not in Quito, those who have been there know the airport, no space, no hangars, no cranes. The aircraft as far as I know would not be repaired.
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Curious how many hours they had flown after landing. Fatigue, etc issues
(not that fatigue caused it, but being fresh and evac-ing is different than evac-ing after having flown XXX hours from Europe)
(not that fatigue caused it, but being fresh and evac-ing is different than evac-ing after having flown XXX hours from Europe)
Hi Rainboe,
if it was me that caused you to become
then humble apologies. I put a question mark behind my statement for good reason. Even tough I am in the industry for now 20 odd years, I'd not dream of suggesting that nor being an expert in engineering, I just put it there as a question. Looking at these http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=515 pics however seem to tell me that there is a lot broken with the aircraft and, as others have pointed out here, moving it might break some more.
I do recall an incident where an A319 went astray during a taxi test at Munich and had an unpleasant encounter with a Dash 8 in the process, resulting in spar damage amongst other bent metal and composite. It took the experts from Airbus and the airline several weeks to decide wether to fix it or to part it out, in the end they did fix it but it took pretty long. Likewise with a brand new 737 which ended up in a hailshower, they called it a write off when it first entered the hangar, and financially it was, but they fixed it.
I understood however that other aircraft, which were much less damaged, ended up on the heap.
So if I have annoyed anyone, sorry. It was and is my perception however that we are an aviation forum and as such, asking questions along these lines should still be allowed...
AN2.
if it was me that caused you to become
Ex-as-per-at-ed-To make very angry or impatient; annoy greatly!
I do recall an incident where an A319 went astray during a taxi test at Munich and had an unpleasant encounter with a Dash 8 in the process, resulting in spar damage amongst other bent metal and composite. It took the experts from Airbus and the airline several weeks to decide wether to fix it or to part it out, in the end they did fix it but it took pretty long. Likewise with a brand new 737 which ended up in a hailshower, they called it a write off when it first entered the hangar, and financially it was, but they fixed it.
I understood however that other aircraft, which were much less damaged, ended up on the heap.
So if I have annoyed anyone, sorry. It was and is my perception however that we are an aviation forum and as such, asking questions along these lines should still be allowed...
AN2.
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Lots of factors involved which we can only guess at. Such as sourcing parts which might be nonstandard (BMI A330....? Same thing) or have longish lead times as they are major lumps of aircraft.
The airline and insurers won't like to write it off though, as it causes a ripple throughout the stats which bedevil airlines these days. Such as safety records and hull losses. We have seen worse than this patched up good as new before now. I'm just glad people got off it OK as that's more important than anything.
The airline and insurers won't like to write it off though, as it causes a ripple throughout the stats which bedevil airlines these days. Such as safety records and hull losses. We have seen worse than this patched up good as new before now. I'm just glad people got off it OK as that's more important than anything.
Rainboe, I don't get it. First you say the engineers are going to assess it and figure out what is needed to repair it. Then you say the engineers are bad judges to be doing this sort of thing.
So who is going to decide if it can be repaired, the pilots? You bend it, you fix sort of deal?
You might want to note that unlike pilots and car mechanics, engineers meet the standard definitions of a profession.
20driver
(And yes I am both a pilot and an engineer, sadly not a car mechanic)
So who is going to decide if it can be repaired, the pilots? You bend it, you fix sort of deal?
You might want to note that unlike pilots and car mechanics, engineers meet the standard definitions of a profession.
20driver
(And yes I am both a pilot and an engineer, sadly not a car mechanic)
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The engineers will probably say it is repairable, but the beancounters will determine if it's beyond economical repair - that it whether its market value is greater or less than the cost to repair.
The other consideration is - what's it's scrap value? Airbus may want to do engineering evaluation of the wing. The two starboard engines alone may bring enough value to consider turning the hulk over to agricultural interests in Equador.
The other consideration is - what's it's scrap value? Airbus may want to do engineering evaluation of the wing. The two starboard engines alone may bring enough value to consider turning the hulk over to agricultural interests in Equador.