Flying into busy airports

[danielcork1]

hello everyone
i have a couple of questions, but as they're kinda related i tought i'd best consolidate them into the one.
Firstly, for the flight crew, what is it like flying into a large international airport such as JFK/ LHR? Is flying into a large international hub much more strenuos and stressful than flying into a small regional airport? Are ops into and out of supesairports like O'Hare very difficult and would they be given only to the most senior captains?
Second question I wanted to ask: I was flying from JFK-SNN last week with EI. The inbound flight really got beaten back by headwinds and ended up arriving something like 45 mins past its ETA. This was followed by a slow turnaround complicated by the fact that they had problem loading the baggage onto the aircraft. As we taxied out onto 4L we suddenly stopped, it didn't seem as if we were on any major taxiway and for 30mins the plane was just sitting there! Eventually with no explanation we moved off and within a few minutes we were airborne. Would this be a case of the aircraft losing its slot at JFK? If so, isn't it unfair that planes get punished for a delay that was beyond their control (i.e the winds)?
Sorry for the ridiculousy long post ill try to keep it short in future!

[Chilli Monster]

Originally Posted by danielcork1

Is flying into a large international hub much more strenuos and stressful than flying into a small regional airport? Are ops into and out of supesairports like O'Hare very difficult and would they be given only to the most senior captains?

Providing the airport has no serious terrain problems (Salzburg springs to mind where special training is required) big airports are just as easy as small airports, sometimes even easier. If you're a Captain then you're a Captain and you go anywhere - end of story

As we taxied out onto 4L we suddenly stopped, it didn't seem as if we were on any major taxiway and for 30mins the plane was just sitting there! Eventually with no explanation we moved off and within a few minutes we were airborne. Would this be a case of the aircraft losing its slot at JFK? If so, isn't it unfair that planes get punished for a delay that was beyond their control (i.e the winds)?

It's quite possible that you would have been allocated a flow management slot after your Flight Plan had been refiled with the new ETD. If this happens at major airports you then have the problem that you're occupying a stand that may be required by someone else. So - standard procedure is to load you up, taxy you to a remote hold until your slot becomes 'live' and then let you go. It's not a case of being punished, more down to the capacity of the en-route ATC sectors at the planned time of your departure. For example - if they can only take 60 aircraft per hour, and you're number 64 planned to go in that hour then you get shunted into the next hour.

[NudgingSteel]

Regarding the second question (as I'm not qualified to answer the first!); there could have been a number of reasons for a delayed departure after taxying out. It's not likely to be a JFK slot as transatlantics aren't regulated in that way. More likely, if it was a slot, to be a domestic one (i.e. from the departure airport to the oceanic boundary). That happens from time to time and could be due to weather, high traffic volumes at that time, reduced ATC capacity due to sickness (for example) or other reasons. There are also security issues with flights inbound to the USA, where companies have to provide passenger details to the authorities over there - this sometimes causes the odd flight to be delayed on the taxiway.
Or possibly there was a minor technical issue, or a paperwork discrepancy, that meant the crew had to speak to company and / or check something before they could depart. You could even have been sitting in a large queue approaching the holding point. (Half an hour without telling the pax why seems a bit harsh though!)
I'm sure it wasn't anything sinister, though - I've got the greatest regard for EI crews.
And as for the 'unfair' comment about stuff outside their control.....all airlines will tell you that pretty much all delays are outside their control! The whole idea of flow control is that a safe and fairly predictable flow of traffic is produced by making aircraft depart within a small calculated time window (their 'slot'). If they depart outside that window, there may well be consequences downline such as an overloaded sector (=unsafe!). So it doesn't really matter why they are running late, it's safer to make sure everybody's operating to the same rules.
Ramble over now.
CM, you type faster than me!

[danielcork1]

ok thanks guys , I think that it was definately a remote hold. that fits the description perfectly because we weren't moving and stopping as you are when in a big qeue for the runway just completely still

[Avman]

Nevertheless a poor show if the FD didn't keep their customers informed of the reason for the delay. It's quite possible that such a lengthy delay was not originally anticipated but even so, after 10 mins or so the Skipper could have given a few words of explanation.

[Rhys S. Negative]

Salzburg rwy34

Ref Chilli Monster's post above, by coincidence I spent a happy day at SZG on 13/1/07 with several hundred more photographers / spotters / enthusiasts, on what turned out to be the busiest day is the airport's history. Of special interest were the large number of Russian charter flights, mainly returning pax to Moscow after the Orthodox Christmas holidays. Several UK arrivals had to wait for ramp space to unload during the morning peak.
Strong northwesterly winds meant that nearly everyone did the 'circle to land' on 34, after following the 16 ILS. I'd love to hear from someone who's flown it how this rates for difficulty - is it purely a visual exercise? Is it harder from the LH seat? Do you practice in the sim?
Thanks in advance for any replies,
Rhys.

[BOAC]

I'd love to hear from someone who's flown it how this rates for difficulty - is it purely a visual exercise? Is it harder from the LH seat? Do you practice in the sim?

Here goes from me:

Not too difficult. G/round R16 and take-off R16 need special brief and care.

Break-off from an ILS approach or you can position visually if the weather is ok.

All right-hand circuits are harder from the LHS! With this one (and Chambery, however, there are lots of visual 'clues' visible from the LHS.

Some airlines do a sim session, some do not. All should have a 'special' briefing for crews, either/and written or audio/visual.