Sky News : you 'avin a larf ?

[Georgeablelovehowindia]

Dr W D (Jock) Lowe could be relied upon to give a precis of CAT 3 and all that, being that he's the former Flight Ops Director of BA and sometime Concorde supremo too. (Just don't ask what his PhD is in, because when he tells you the title of his thesis, it'll make your head spin! It's something to do with chemistry IIRC.)

Amusing to watch poor 'Spangles' Kaplinsky's cogs turning in the freezing fog as she slowly worked out that she was getting the right answers to the wrong questions from a person who did a completely different job from what she thought he did! "... and now back to George in the studio."

On a serious note, this highlights the lack of investment in the operational facilities at our No 1 gateway. It's well-named 'Heath-Robinson Airport' and after this escapade I can forecast tens of thousands of passengers vowing to avoid the place in future, with long-term consequences. I'm old enough to remember the rapid demise of London Docks.

It seems that while I was typing this, Simon Calder of the Independent has been on Sky, pointing out that the events at LHR are being broadcast around the world. For 'tens of thousands' therefore substitute 'millions.'

[Algy]

Airbus Girl, not quite sure what you think is wrong with David's explanation. The (proximate) reason why Heathrow is in the state it is in right now is the impact of fog on visual contact with other aircraft. As he says.

(Lots of wider issues of course - insufficient runways / too many aircraft; EVS not deployed and not likely to be anytime soon; ADS-B ditto; HUDs underutilised; no mixed-mode; etc...)

[Bandit650]

The piece I saw on Sky News last night around 5pm (and it sound likes the same one referred to in the original post) was done by Retd. BA Capt. Eric Moody (1982 Jakarta Volcanic Ash 747 fame) . I thought he explained the ILS and general loviz ops in layman terms quite well.......although must admit I was surprised to hear the bit about a/c on the ground interfering with the ILS..

[issi noho]

After all thats been written here aren't we all worried about the news reports on subjects that we are not expert about?

Do spies p1ss themseleves when the Polonium 210 stuff comes on, there must be so much like this we don't notice. 24 hour TV news - great.

[eden47]

Originally Posted by lexxity

Just WTF has that got to do with the weather at LHR? Nothing, but it's a good excuse to say you should use your bike (yes really) instead of flying.

What's the problem? Just strap E.T. to the front and away you go........

[the dean]

funny how the public still want to operate at the same pace despite adverse weather conditions.... ...but you mention safety to them and that brings some feeling of reasoning to them ??!!.

yet i met a taxi driver last night who could not '' understand in this day and age why , when we have gps in cars, ... planes cannot get something that tells them on the ground....TURN RIGHT...TURN LEFT....??

makes it sound simple...does'nt it ..!!??? ..of course i should have been able to see that all along..( and of course all ramp vehicles would also have to be fitted with TECAS too!!!)

how silly of me..

right lads ...get on with it and get those thingamees fitted in your planes right away and stop f***ing around in the fog...so my taxi driver can travel on time..

funny when i asked him if he could deliver me to****** in the same time as it normally takes...he could'nt say he would...

perhaps he should get one of those thingamees fitted to his car as well ( if your planes have any left over )...

of course nobody likes hanging around an airport feeling tired and dirty for hours or days on end and they are entitled to feel frustrated and i sympathise with anyone caught in that situation especially at this time of year... (look at the usa and denver...its a mess too as well as the knock on effect it has on other non affected parts of the world due to disrupted schedules )...but look...it happens..

just hope all affected get home for christmas..( remember john candy in ''boats,trains ,and planes..'')...still a few days to go for a little gradient ( though the charts not too encouraging in that regard )...but look its christmas...the time for miracles..

maybe...just maybe...

the dean.

[Frankfurt_Cowboy]

I was watching the BBC News yesterday evening and they had a very alarming representation of the ILS system on. It showed a "beam" (maybe a laser, I don't know) emanating from the far end of the runway, with aircraft flying down the beams path until they approached the runway at which point they nosedived towards ground at an alarming angle. My wife saw this and commented that they should put the beam at the other end of the runway because it didn't look too safe to her!!

[AUTOGLIDE]

You're all living under a false presumption. The sooner you realise that TV is just "soma for the masses" (as described once by someone clever), and that the masses are thick as hell along with the journalists, then the world makes more sense.
You expect too much you know...

[Doors to Automatic]

The BBC should get that taxi driver in again - I'm sure he would do a better job!

[anotherthing]

Bandit650

.......although must admit I was surprised to hear the bit about a/c on the ground interfering with the ILS..

Best you learn about protected areas then if you are going for you ATPL!

[Jay Doubleyou]

Aircraft DO interfere with ILS on the ground!

Originally Posted by Bandit650

The piece I saw on Sky News last night around 5pm (and it sound likes the same one referred to in the original post) was done by Retd. BA Capt. Eric Moody (1982 Jakarta Volcanic Ash 747 fame) . I thought he explained the ILS and general loviz ops in layman terms quite well.......although must admit I was surprised to hear the bit about a/c on the ground interfering with the ILS..

I'm surprised that you haven't noticed the different holding points for ILS categories, large lumps of metal can cause some awful bends as they pass by!
I remember, many years ago, reading an AAIB report on a G/A crash in Kent caused by fuel contamination, sadly, fatal, but not unusual. AAIB said that the pilot and passengers were killed instantly; the aircraft came down, out of sight, in an inaccessible marsh which even the Local Authority Fire Brigade found difficulty in navigating, so the AFS would have been wrong to try and ATC were correct in preventing them.
Months later, a large circulation Sunday Newspaper, obviously on a slow news day, "reported" the Report as "desperate fire officer who wanted lead his gallant band to the rescue, watched as pilot and three passengers were burnt to death in screaming agony, but callous Controller refused to let them off the airfield!"
Every main "fact" reported was exactly the opposite of the AAIB findings!
They even published an editorial screaming for the Controllers head, (he was under orders not to allow an off-airfield deployment because the fire-tenders were not registered or insured for the road as a management economy measure!)
I have (Expressly) not let that bumwipe of a paper in the house in 20+ years, but I remember thinking at the time, if they get it so wrong, and I know it because of professional knowledge, how often have they lied to me about subjects on which I know nothing?

[Airways B]

Wait until the A380 starts operating CAT3C rumours abound of 12 mile spacing!!

[24 Hour Clock]

Airbus Girl- so you have been flying approaches down to 75m vis!!. Willing to be corrected, thought the absolute min for a Cat3b App was No DA/DH 100M 100M 75M. !!!

[Farty Flaps]

Look children the terms are ils critical and sensitive areas.so the first guy was ignorant of the fact and the second partially right.
The lowest minima are o dh/75. lets stick to slagging the journos off instead of the usual bunfight on here between people with partial knowledge

[ElNino]

Willing to be corrected, thought the absolute min for a Cat3b App was No DA/DH 100M 100M 75M. !!!

Consider yourself corrected! The min cat3b requirements (in the A320 anyway) are 75/75/75 with no DH.

[GK430]

Bandit 650 - why do you think more work needs to be done on CAT III holds for CAT F aircraft?

[clicker]

Even the passengers are getting confused. To quote from the BBC this afternoon.

"There were no warnings about it before. We were just told it was cloudy. I've had no information, just that it's cancelled."

Wonder who told her that.

[Golf Charlie Charlie]

Well, OK, if we're into ridiculing the media mode, I did quite like this one. It seems some pilots are now spotters as well. From AP, quoted in the New York Times : ""Planes can land using electronics, but reduced visibility means that pilots have difficulty spotting other airplanes -- increasing the risk of collision. The need for increased spacing between planes means lowered capacity for both incoming and outgoing flights.""

[ETOPS]

CAT IIIB limits are type specific;

Airbus 75m touchdown
Boeing 777 75m touchdown
Boeing 747 100m touchdown

Etc etc

PS loved the bit about the "frickin lasers" ...

[cedd]

As far as i can see (as a humble Tels Engineer) the major problem is the landed aircraft turning off the centreline and hence off-axis to the localiser beam. The tail in particular is going to pull the beam something chronic. Not sure what the spacing is at LHR but assuming it's a couple of miles, it's a nasty time to be kicked off of the ILS. We have an overide button to switch off our farfield monitors when an aircraft is parked on the threshold for any length of time (clearly not an issue at LHR) so it doesn't see the deflection and shut the ILS down.

Out of interest, are they using the MLS there yet and how's it holding up?