View Poll Results: Should Chris Darke be re-elected as BALPA Gen Sec. (Straw poll)
Yes
59
12.14%
No
427
87.86%
Voters: 486. This poll is closed
Chris Darke to be re-elected!!! Vote
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The sad thing is that you don't even have to focus only on "professional" jobs to see how much our pay has drifted due south.
- Black Cab drivers on average file revenue at £60,000/year on their self-assessment tax forms. (how much do they really make ? probably more like £90,000). No weekends or nights for the majority of them.
- A strip club waitress was awarded damages of £60,000 for being forced from her job early this year. The amount was based on £5000/month for 1 years lost wages.
- London train drivers starting at £33,000, Eurorail £43,000.
Of professionals,
- A newly graduate lawyer getting a job with a major firm(say a BA-type equivalent for pilots) starts at £100,000/year.
Unfortuantely too many pilots enjoy the job too much to realise that we are in fact under-paid. It's not a crime to enjoy your job and get paid for it !
It all boils done to whether you accept airline pseudo management that thinks modern day pilots are less skilled these days as a result of advanced aircraft computerisation (modern bus drivers). They like to ignore the fact that we have a £1 billion worth of litigation at our hands every day we go flying if we get it wrong through neglect or unprofessionalism. It's time we reminded them that our salaries do not reflect the level of responsibility or the life-disruption's we suffer from being away 2/3rd of our life.
- Black Cab drivers on average file revenue at £60,000/year on their self-assessment tax forms. (how much do they really make ? probably more like £90,000). No weekends or nights for the majority of them.
- A strip club waitress was awarded damages of £60,000 for being forced from her job early this year. The amount was based on £5000/month for 1 years lost wages.
- London train drivers starting at £33,000, Eurorail £43,000.
Of professionals,
- A newly graduate lawyer getting a job with a major firm(say a BA-type equivalent for pilots) starts at £100,000/year.
Unfortuantely too many pilots enjoy the job too much to realise that we are in fact under-paid. It's not a crime to enjoy your job and get paid for it !
It all boils done to whether you accept airline pseudo management that thinks modern day pilots are less skilled these days as a result of advanced aircraft computerisation (modern bus drivers). They like to ignore the fact that we have a £1 billion worth of litigation at our hands every day we go flying if we get it wrong through neglect or unprofessionalism. It's time we reminded them that our salaries do not reflect the level of responsibility or the life-disruption's we suffer from being away 2/3rd of our life.
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Well said airrage.
Its becoming quite pitifull when you look at it like that !
This is why we need someone at the helm of BALPA who is prepared to stop this terminal slide of our T & C's. Someone who is not TOTALLY obsessed about the size of the membership. Someone who will take a leaf out of some of the US unions books and make the management take the union seriously.
Its becoming quite pitifull when you look at it like that !
This is why we need someone at the helm of BALPA who is prepared to stop this terminal slide of our T & C's. Someone who is not TOTALLY obsessed about the size of the membership. Someone who will take a leaf out of some of the US unions books and make the management take the union seriously.
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Big Kahuna Burger
<<This is why we need someone at the helm of BALPA who is prepared to stop this terminal slide of our T & C's. >>
Kindly explain how any GS is going to make pilots actually go on strike - the only way that T&Cs will be markedly improved.
<<This is why we need someone at the helm of BALPA who is prepared to stop this terminal slide of our T & C's. >>
Kindly explain how any GS is going to make pilots actually go on strike - the only way that T&Cs will be markedly improved.
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man u,
I think it is quite reasonable for BKB to expect leadership and direction from the GS.
You seem to imply that the GS is responsible for nothing; in which case why do we need one at all? Think of all the money we could save!
Regards,
XFO1-11
I think it is quite reasonable for BKB to expect leadership and direction from the GS.
You seem to imply that the GS is responsible for nothing; in which case why do we need one at all? Think of all the money we could save!
Regards,
XFO1-11
Last edited by XFO1-11; 19th May 2002 at 20:35.
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Re "The Log"
There have been a number of references to "The Log" in this thread. Can I correct a number of misapprehensions?
1) CD does not have exclusive access to The Log. The truth is that extracting copy from him for each issue is like pulling teeth.
2) If JF or anyone else has heartfelt points to make, write in with something to be published under the "sideways look" heading. If it is well written, relevant and not libellous, it will stand a good chance of being published. Otherwise, try the letters page. It is highly unusual not to publish anything here.
3) As to the criticism about the publication being all about BA nigels' travel experiences, we can only publish what people submit. We would dearly love to be in the position of having a vast range of interesting and exciting articles to chose from. If your interests and views are not represented, how about representing them yourself? I look forward to the flood of post at New Road.
1) CD does not have exclusive access to The Log. The truth is that extracting copy from him for each issue is like pulling teeth.
2) If JF or anyone else has heartfelt points to make, write in with something to be published under the "sideways look" heading. If it is well written, relevant and not libellous, it will stand a good chance of being published. Otherwise, try the letters page. It is highly unusual not to publish anything here.
3) As to the criticism about the publication being all about BA nigels' travel experiences, we can only publish what people submit. We would dearly love to be in the position of having a vast range of interesting and exciting articles to chose from. If your interests and views are not represented, how about representing them yourself? I look forward to the flood of post at New Road.
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1) But he does have exclusive access to his column on page 3 (or whatever it is). I bet he's a lot keener to produce something these days.
2) If JF has points to make why should they be published under the "sideways look" heading, buried away so deep within the magazine that most readers are in a deep coma before they ever reach there. Why not give him a section parallel to CDs propaganda piece? Why even try the letters page when there seems to be a slightly dubious editorial policy in place, as recent letters re BA seniority suggest.
3) If there really is such a dearth of interesting articles then why not just reduce the size of The Log and save our money, instead of padding it out with articles on old Comet adventures and BIZARRE letters from retired trolley dollies complaining about car adverts!
2) If JF has points to make why should they be published under the "sideways look" heading, buried away so deep within the magazine that most readers are in a deep coma before they ever reach there. Why not give him a section parallel to CDs propaganda piece? Why even try the letters page when there seems to be a slightly dubious editorial policy in place, as recent letters re BA seniority suggest.
3) If there really is such a dearth of interesting articles then why not just reduce the size of The Log and save our money, instead of padding it out with articles on old Comet adventures and BIZARRE letters from retired trolley dollies complaining about car adverts!
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Carnage Matey - I entirely agree with your third point. Well said!
Is there any difference between the elections at BALPA and FIFA?!
Is there any difference between the elections at BALPA and FIFA?!
Last edited by Hot Wings; 29th May 2002 at 10:43.
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I see that JF and his merry men have taken to exploiting and abusing the BALPA internal e-mail listings given to BA and Non BA Reps - here is the latest classic to appear.... from someone called Graham Cathcart, whoever he is !
Good Gentlefolk
IT IS TIME TO PUT OUR HOUSE IN ORDER! CHRIS DARK MUST PUT
UP OR SHUT UP!
WE ANSWER TO THE CAA FOR OUR JOBS.................LET HIM
ANSWER TO US
HE NEED ONLY FEAR THE DEMOCRATIC PROCESS IF HE HAS
NEGLECTED HIS JOB
Which, in my opinion, he seems to have done.
I have only been active as a rep in Balpa since last
December. I was roused from my usual apathy by what I perceived as a weak
union. Over the years I have seen the pay, conditions and status of OUR
PROFESSION WITHER AND DIE LIKE A NEGLECTED GARDEN.
I belong to a UNION (it is nothing more, and nothing less
than that).... that WE PAY FOR!!!!!!
I DO NOT FEEL THAT I AM GETTING GOOD VALUE FOR MY MONEY.
and there is only ONE MAN TO BLAME... the man who runs it.
Since SEPTEMBER I have not seen or heard nor recieved any
comunication from someone called CHRIS DARKE. In these troubled times I
think that is shocking. I have been in New Road on numerous occassions and
Mr. Darke has been conspicuous by his absence.
Suddenly I, like you, am being bombarded with e-mails
telling what a sterling job IFALPA AND EVERYONE ELSE IS DOING. I still dont
see what Darke is doing other than seeming to be GRABBING THEIR COAT TAILS
in an effort to look good and BASK IN THEIR GLORY. If I was a truly cynical
man I would think this was electioneering by stealth, and extremely
despicable if it was.
I DO NOT WANT A UNION DOMINATED BY BA.
I WANT A STRONG UNION SERVED BY A STRONG AND EFFECTIVE
GENERAL SECRETARY.
I BELIEVE THAT WE CAN FIND ONE ........BUT ONLY WHEN THE
JOB IS VACANT.
SUPPORT DEMOCRACY......DEMAND ACTION......ABOVE ALL ELSE
VOTE FOR CHANGE
VOTE FOR FROHNSDORFF
THANK YOU for reading this far, and my apologies for spamming. I feel very
strongly about this and what I perceive as an attempt to pervert and
smother the democratic process.
regards
Graham Cathcart
p.s. If Chris Darke had not SPAMMED ME I would not have your e-mail
address, if he can use it.......Then, in a free and open union..so can you
and I.
I sense a certain desparation here -all those who vote for JF - beware !!!!!
flappless
Good Gentlefolk
IT IS TIME TO PUT OUR HOUSE IN ORDER! CHRIS DARK MUST PUT
UP OR SHUT UP!
WE ANSWER TO THE CAA FOR OUR JOBS.................LET HIM
ANSWER TO US
HE NEED ONLY FEAR THE DEMOCRATIC PROCESS IF HE HAS
NEGLECTED HIS JOB
Which, in my opinion, he seems to have done.
I have only been active as a rep in Balpa since last
December. I was roused from my usual apathy by what I perceived as a weak
union. Over the years I have seen the pay, conditions and status of OUR
PROFESSION WITHER AND DIE LIKE A NEGLECTED GARDEN.
I belong to a UNION (it is nothing more, and nothing less
than that).... that WE PAY FOR!!!!!!
I DO NOT FEEL THAT I AM GETTING GOOD VALUE FOR MY MONEY.
and there is only ONE MAN TO BLAME... the man who runs it.
Since SEPTEMBER I have not seen or heard nor recieved any
comunication from someone called CHRIS DARKE. In these troubled times I
think that is shocking. I have been in New Road on numerous occassions and
Mr. Darke has been conspicuous by his absence.
Suddenly I, like you, am being bombarded with e-mails
telling what a sterling job IFALPA AND EVERYONE ELSE IS DOING. I still dont
see what Darke is doing other than seeming to be GRABBING THEIR COAT TAILS
in an effort to look good and BASK IN THEIR GLORY. If I was a truly cynical
man I would think this was electioneering by stealth, and extremely
despicable if it was.
I DO NOT WANT A UNION DOMINATED BY BA.
I WANT A STRONG UNION SERVED BY A STRONG AND EFFECTIVE
GENERAL SECRETARY.
I BELIEVE THAT WE CAN FIND ONE ........BUT ONLY WHEN THE
JOB IS VACANT.
SUPPORT DEMOCRACY......DEMAND ACTION......ABOVE ALL ELSE
VOTE FOR CHANGE
VOTE FOR FROHNSDORFF
THANK YOU for reading this far, and my apologies for spamming. I feel very
strongly about this and what I perceive as an attempt to pervert and
smother the democratic process.
regards
Graham Cathcart
p.s. If Chris Darke had not SPAMMED ME I would not have your e-mail
address, if he can use it.......Then, in a free and open union..so can you
and I.
I sense a certain desparation here -all those who vote for JF - beware !!!!!
flappless
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Flapless,
I think you will find, should you actually do any research prior to posting, that this particular gentlemen has nothing to do with my election team. He is however rightly annoyed at the spamming that is now taking place by our GS using the BALPA email service to all reps.
Where I disagree with his email is that he resorted to spamming himself to propagate his objection. It would be nice however if he and the rest of the reps were not subjected to this unusual activity by the GS. I suppose the only succour I can provide to the poor chap is that the present level of GS spamming will probably cease after the elections are over, one way or other!
I also sense desperation; but please be assured it is not from me.
Regards,
John
I think you will find, should you actually do any research prior to posting, that this particular gentlemen has nothing to do with my election team. He is however rightly annoyed at the spamming that is now taking place by our GS using the BALPA email service to all reps.
Where I disagree with his email is that he resorted to spamming himself to propagate his objection. It would be nice however if he and the rest of the reps were not subjected to this unusual activity by the GS. I suppose the only succour I can provide to the poor chap is that the present level of GS spamming will probably cease after the elections are over, one way or other!
I also sense desperation; but please be assured it is not from me.
Regards,
John
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John,
You need to take some of your own advice - at least read the posting I made last night. Nowhere do I suggest that this person is part of your team. His e-mail is spam, CD's are not as he is entitled to communicate via these lists if he so pleases, afterall he is the GS of BALPA. My questions to you - since you failed to answer them when asked before are - why are you not standing down from the NEC to challenge CD for the post of GS? Why are you prepared to see the good name of the association be dragged through the mud - worldwide on this message board? How are you able to justify the cost to the association of two elections?
As I have said before, I have no problem with your challenge to CD but at least have the decency to step down from the NEC first.
You need to take a reality check and stop riding on the political ego's of those who you think support you.
flappless
You need to take some of your own advice - at least read the posting I made last night. Nowhere do I suggest that this person is part of your team. His e-mail is spam, CD's are not as he is entitled to communicate via these lists if he so pleases, afterall he is the GS of BALPA. My questions to you - since you failed to answer them when asked before are - why are you not standing down from the NEC to challenge CD for the post of GS? Why are you prepared to see the good name of the association be dragged through the mud - worldwide on this message board? How are you able to justify the cost to the association of two elections?
As I have said before, I have no problem with your challenge to CD but at least have the decency to step down from the NEC first.
You need to take a reality check and stop riding on the political ego's of those who you think support you.
flappless
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I do not have a political ego, I support JF and your post is typical of the arrogance apparent in the upper echelons of the club known as BALPA management.
I was on the point of leaving BALPA due to the complete and utter contempt with which many of us have been treated.
Why should JF resign from the NEC? All power to him for standing for election and facing the barrage of propaganda and underhand tactics eminating from BALPA HQ.
He is standing to unseat CD, I really don't care what it costs because it is necessary.
If JF loses and CD and company do not heed the wake-up call then BALPA will shortly find itself a few thousand members poorer.
I do not wish to see that happen but that is the reality of the situation.
Whoever wins much must change not least the condescending and arrogant attitude from on high.
Your posting gives me little hope.
I was on the point of leaving BALPA due to the complete and utter contempt with which many of us have been treated.
Why should JF resign from the NEC? All power to him for standing for election and facing the barrage of propaganda and underhand tactics eminating from BALPA HQ.
He is standing to unseat CD, I really don't care what it costs because it is necessary.
If JF loses and CD and company do not heed the wake-up call then BALPA will shortly find itself a few thousand members poorer.
I do not wish to see that happen but that is the reality of the situation.
Whoever wins much must change not least the condescending and arrogant attitude from on high.
Your posting gives me little hope.
Mistrust in Management
Flapless,
Why should John have to stand down from the NEC in order to stand for election as Gen Sec?
A bit of an odd statement from you here. <<You need to take a reality check and stop riding on the political ego's of those who you think support you.>> Look in the mirror my friend.
Regards
Exeng
Why should John have to stand down from the NEC in order to stand for election as Gen Sec?
A bit of an odd statement from you here. <<You need to take a reality check and stop riding on the political ego's of those who you think support you.>> Look in the mirror my friend.
Regards
Exeng
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flapless,
Well... If the above isn't suggesting that
then my knowledge of the intricacies of the english language is sadly lacking.
As for your point about the cost of two elections... If you had been reading the Q & A thread (Click here to view Q & A thread) you would know that there is simply no other way to oust the current incumbent.
We either have two elections or just continue with CD.
I see that JF and his merry men have taken to exploiting and abusing the BALPA internal e-mail listings
this person is part of your team
As for your point about the cost of two elections... If you had been reading the Q & A thread (Click here to view Q & A thread) you would know that there is simply no other way to oust the current incumbent.
We either have two elections or just continue with CD.
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flapless,
You did suggest Graham Cathcart was part of my team and you where wrong.
CD can indeed communicate via official BALPA email lists if he so pleases; it is strange however that he chose not to do so until late. One might be forgiven for thinking it has something to do with the election!
There is nothing wrong with standing for election and being an NEC member; the rules are quite clear on the subject. Indeed having an election is what every democratic society does on a regular basis. I find it odd that you have an objection to members having a say in the running of their own union.
I do not have access to BALPA email lists, access to a column in log or the ability to spend £2500 of BALPA money sending out each postal missive from the NEC chairman. I do what I can to communicate with the members and I make myself available to answer questions on PPruNe. It may not be as grand as the array of communication techniques available to CD but I am doing my best!
Regards,
John
You did suggest Graham Cathcart was part of my team and you where wrong.
CD can indeed communicate via official BALPA email lists if he so pleases; it is strange however that he chose not to do so until late. One might be forgiven for thinking it has something to do with the election!
There is nothing wrong with standing for election and being an NEC member; the rules are quite clear on the subject. Indeed having an election is what every democratic society does on a regular basis. I find it odd that you have an objection to members having a say in the running of their own union.
I do not have access to BALPA email lists, access to a column in log or the ability to spend £2500 of BALPA money sending out each postal missive from the NEC chairman. I do what I can to communicate with the members and I make myself available to answer questions on PPruNe. It may not be as grand as the array of communication techniques available to CD but I am doing my best!
Regards,
John
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John,
Quote
"CD can indeed communicate via official BALPA email lists if he so pleases; it is strange however that he chose not to do so until late. One might be forgiven for thinking it has something to do with the election!
Unquote
I guess that means he is NOT spamming when he uses the internal e-mailing lists as he is entitled to do so. Mr Cathcart is because he isn't! On re-reading my original post I accept that I suggested he was one of 'your team' - what I meant was that he was one of your supporters. I guess that makes him a fan of yours rather than a team member - fair enough. Frankly if CD has decided to suddenly see the light, as a result of this election, to start communicating more then thats fine by me.
I liken you to an MP who has decided to change the party which he represents without resigning and going to the ballot box. That is why you should have planned ahead and stepped down from the NEC and then launched your campaign to remove CD. It would have been an 'honourable' thing to do although there is clearly little honour here !
You and your supporters are being rather selective in the questions you are choosing to answer. If you look at your manifestos you will see that no other CC's apart from BA's are supporting you. WHY IS THAT ? It is a simple question. Why is it that everyone else is wrong ? No doubt you will answer that the other CC's did not ask their members but I am sure they have a pretty good idea of what their members would want and what is best for BALPA and themselves.
So, to recap,
a) Why is it that NO other CC decided to support you ?
b) Jusify the cost of two elections from the subscriptions of all the members.
c) Give us your feelings about the impact of the bad press which has been generated by using this medium for your election campaign. There have been thousands of 'hits' on this thread. If I lived abroad I would wonder what on earth was going on at BALPA.
Keep it simple and just answer the questions.
Quote
"CD can indeed communicate via official BALPA email lists if he so pleases; it is strange however that he chose not to do so until late. One might be forgiven for thinking it has something to do with the election!
Unquote
I guess that means he is NOT spamming when he uses the internal e-mailing lists as he is entitled to do so. Mr Cathcart is because he isn't! On re-reading my original post I accept that I suggested he was one of 'your team' - what I meant was that he was one of your supporters. I guess that makes him a fan of yours rather than a team member - fair enough. Frankly if CD has decided to suddenly see the light, as a result of this election, to start communicating more then thats fine by me.
I liken you to an MP who has decided to change the party which he represents without resigning and going to the ballot box. That is why you should have planned ahead and stepped down from the NEC and then launched your campaign to remove CD. It would have been an 'honourable' thing to do although there is clearly little honour here !
You and your supporters are being rather selective in the questions you are choosing to answer. If you look at your manifestos you will see that no other CC's apart from BA's are supporting you. WHY IS THAT ? It is a simple question. Why is it that everyone else is wrong ? No doubt you will answer that the other CC's did not ask their members but I am sure they have a pretty good idea of what their members would want and what is best for BALPA and themselves.
So, to recap,
a) Why is it that NO other CC decided to support you ?
b) Jusify the cost of two elections from the subscriptions of all the members.
c) Give us your feelings about the impact of the bad press which has been generated by using this medium for your election campaign. There have been thousands of 'hits' on this thread. If I lived abroad I would wonder what on earth was going on at BALPA.
Keep it simple and just answer the questions.