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Tailscrape it is the truth as you see it!
No one is in a position to buy MYT in Europe!
I suggest you lookup the definition of bankrupt as MYT are not in that position as we speak.
You are correct TC have only two shareholders and that makes you feel safer!
I doubt anyone will want to buy a UK tour operator/airline be it MYT or TC.
The scale of the problems in Germany are huge and dwarf the finacial problems at MYT.
All that said no one questions the deep problems at MYT but there is still life and therefore hope. You and others were forcasting the demise of MYT this time last year and it is still here.
No one is in a position to buy MYT in Europe!
I suggest you lookup the definition of bankrupt as MYT are not in that position as we speak.
You are correct TC have only two shareholders and that makes you feel safer!
I doubt anyone will want to buy a UK tour operator/airline be it MYT or TC.
The scale of the problems in Germany are huge and dwarf the finacial problems at MYT.
All that said no one questions the deep problems at MYT but there is still life and therefore hope. You and others were forcasting the demise of MYT this time last year and it is still here.
Last edited by kinsman; 17th Nov 2003 at 02:10.
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Kinsman,
No-one here wants MYT to fold but to say that TCX are in a more precarious position is just not true. I rather think that it is wishful thinking to deflect the media interest in MYT.
TCX UK will be recruiting pilots next year and I suspect that MYT type rated guys will be applying. I rather doubt that TCX UK pilots will be applying to MYT.
Time will tell but my own gut feeling is that MYT, if it is to survive, will be downsized drastically as more pieces of the group are sold off to reduce debt.
As for buying MYT as a whole entity, I don't think in its current predicament, that there would be any takers, as large amounts of debt would be unattractive to any purchaser.
No-one here wants MYT to fold but to say that TCX are in a more precarious position is just not true. I rather think that it is wishful thinking to deflect the media interest in MYT.
TCX UK will be recruiting pilots next year and I suspect that MYT type rated guys will be applying. I rather doubt that TCX UK pilots will be applying to MYT.
Time will tell but my own gut feeling is that MYT, if it is to survive, will be downsized drastically as more pieces of the group are sold off to reduce debt.
As for buying MYT as a whole entity, I don't think in its current predicament, that there would be any takers, as large amounts of debt would be unattractive to any purchaser.
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Tailscrape
You are of course correct the situation at MYT is not good. But to put the TC situation in context many of the MYT companies are making money just like TC UK but that will not protect them if the group fails nor will it protect TC UK.
The reason TC UK is in a position to turn in any kind of profit this year is due to the intervention of the Germans and this can work both ways! Much of the write down in Germany is due to the rescue of TC UK.
I don’t think having only two share holders is an advantage frankly as that makes it easier to dispose of assets. Airlines are rarely seen as assets to tour companies these days I am sad to say!
Taking on pilots is not an indicator of a healthy company AE were doing it right to the end. It also means you may have an unhappy work force if you need more pilots and you are not increasing capacity!
You are of course correct the situation at MYT is not good. But to put the TC situation in context many of the MYT companies are making money just like TC UK but that will not protect them if the group fails nor will it protect TC UK.
The reason TC UK is in a position to turn in any kind of profit this year is due to the intervention of the Germans and this can work both ways! Much of the write down in Germany is due to the rescue of TC UK.
I don’t think having only two share holders is an advantage frankly as that makes it easier to dispose of assets. Airlines are rarely seen as assets to tour companies these days I am sad to say!
Taking on pilots is not an indicator of a healthy company AE were doing it right to the end. It also means you may have an unhappy work force if you need more pilots and you are not increasing capacity!
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Kinsman et al, treat TAILSCRAPE's postings with the disdain they deserve. A quick trawl of his many postings will show what a twisted and bitter sad individual he is. He USED to work for TC once upon a time and was forced to go elswhere (DHL) although he has tried many other companies to no avail, I wonder why ?
Yes it is a rumour network, and many thrive upon it. I hope you all pull through at MYT. Although we all chat and banter on here, isn't it a shame that fellow professionals can't be a little more supportive in difficult times instead of being full of destructive comments. Let's try to get at the truth, but without the vitriol please. Best of luck from spotty, and hope to see some of you on the Hajj.
Yes it is a rumour network, and many thrive upon it. I hope you all pull through at MYT. Although we all chat and banter on here, isn't it a shame that fellow professionals can't be a little more supportive in difficult times instead of being full of destructive comments. Let's try to get at the truth, but without the vitriol please. Best of luck from spotty, and hope to see some of you on the Hajj.
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Flex42 good point well made! Interesting view of tailscrape and explains a lot.
Lou nice thought but as I stated earlier no one is in a position to buy us at the moment. You could get us cheap true but the debt would be a problem!
I will fight MYT's corner here but we must face the fact that things could be a lot better! MYT may yet pull out of this mess, tomorrow will be interesting!
I am not sure if the lack of press coverage at the moment is good or bad! Strange having spent so much time on these pages complaining about the press coverage!
Lou nice thought but as I stated earlier no one is in a position to buy us at the moment. You could get us cheap true but the debt would be a problem!
I will fight MYT's corner here but we must face the fact that things could be a lot better! MYT may yet pull out of this mess, tomorrow will be interesting!
I am not sure if the lack of press coverage at the moment is good or bad! Strange having spent so much time on these pages complaining about the press coverage!
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To the TC Experts:
Can you tell us TC's current level of debt, that is, what they owe to banks, finance houses, etc?
I read somewhere that it was in the order of €2-3billion, which makes MYT's woes look somewhat paltry.
Discuss.
Can you tell us TC's current level of debt, that is, what they owe to banks, finance houses, etc?
I read somewhere that it was in the order of €2-3billion, which makes MYT's woes look somewhat paltry.
Discuss.
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Those figures sound about right but they are of course in a different position to MYT. Their troubles are just starting to surface and they appear at least to have a sound team leading in Germany, all be it two have just done a runner! TC's problems are linked to a poor German economy over which they have no control. MYT was down to poor leadership!
I have no idea where it will end but I am sure LH cant afford to support these loses for long, they are still recovering like all the other major carriers from 9/11, SARS etc.
I have no idea where it will end but I am sure LH cant afford to support these loses for long, they are still recovering like all the other major carriers from 9/11, SARS etc.
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What do we know about big business?
Check out Der Spiegel this morning, and you'll read that TC is to be broken up by it's 2 share-holders, with TC's French and UK businesses on the block to finance the "re-structure". This makes some of the previous contributors look rather daft.
The reality is that most of us "drivers" are active at conjecture but useless at anticipating accurately the moves made at board level. (I guess if we were so good at business, we would not be working on the flight-deck). I hope it all works out o.k for pilots of both TC and MYT, not forgetting all the other fine employees of these 2 companies.
The reality is that most of us "drivers" are active at conjecture but useless at anticipating accurately the moves made at board level. (I guess if we were so good at business, we would not be working on the flight-deck). I hope it all works out o.k for pilots of both TC and MYT, not forgetting all the other fine employees of these 2 companies.
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MissChief,
I wonder if you will deem your own post of Nov 8th "daft" then in the coming weeks and months ?
The new hands at the helm have been in position for less than a week and are only temporary. I rather doubt such a radical decision has already been taken and suspect that is conjecture and rumour by German media enjoying a feeding frenzy.
Besides, putting TCX UK "on the block" as you put it is hardly good business sense as it is profitable. May I suggest that a more sensible course of action would be to carve up the loss- making German arm.
As you correctly assert, people here are guessing the outcomes at MYT and TCX in the same way as the media be it English or German !
I wonder if you will deem your own post of Nov 8th "daft" then in the coming weeks and months ?
The new hands at the helm have been in position for less than a week and are only temporary. I rather doubt such a radical decision has already been taken and suspect that is conjecture and rumour by German media enjoying a feeding frenzy.
Besides, putting TCX UK "on the block" as you put it is hardly good business sense as it is profitable. May I suggest that a more sensible course of action would be to carve up the loss- making German arm.
As you correctly assert, people here are guessing the outcomes at MYT and TCX in the same way as the media be it English or German !
Last edited by LIMA OR ALPHA JUNK; 17th Nov 2003 at 20:30.
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flex42,
Oh what a big man you are. Nice to see a balanced individual....
My comments are based on what I have read in the press, and from certain info I have available.
As for identifying people, well you are just sad for slating me personally. And as for who I work for, well is that your business?
If you do not like other's opinions, then log off. Permanently.
Oh what a big man you are. Nice to see a balanced individual....
My comments are based on what I have read in the press, and from certain info I have available.
As for identifying people, well you are just sad for slating me personally. And as for who I work for, well is that your business?
If you do not like other's opinions, then log off. Permanently.
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With respect, spy, debt is debt; it has to be repaid at sometime.
The two that "did a runner" from the TC Group board HAD TO, before they were removed, so, possibly their management skills and "leadership" left a little to be desired.
And to LIMA OR ALPHA JUNK: The UK arm of TC is only in profit now because of the large write-off's that have been absorbed elswhere in the TC Group. Unfortunately for TC, there is no money left in the kitty to do the same for the German operation. And, as "Cash Flow is King", methinks that TC will sell the parts that they can get the best price for.
The Inclusive Tour business Europe-wide is in the trough-part of the 3-to-5 year cycle that affects our industry. One just has to look around at most operators woes.
The survivors will be those who have taken their heads out of the sand, not those that still have their heads buried in the sand, and that applies to the workforce as much as the management.
Those terms and conditions that we, as employees have gained, will rapidly be erroded to pay for all-round mis-management, corruption and general economic malaise.
Oh, dear; I seem to have used the "C" word!
Good luck to all of us, I wish no ill of anyone. Just security and good health for us all.
Sadly, all the uncertainty in my company is now affecting the health of my family.
PS. One other question. How many TC/Condor B757's are parked-up, now?
The two that "did a runner" from the TC Group board HAD TO, before they were removed, so, possibly their management skills and "leadership" left a little to be desired.
And to LIMA OR ALPHA JUNK: The UK arm of TC is only in profit now because of the large write-off's that have been absorbed elswhere in the TC Group. Unfortunately for TC, there is no money left in the kitty to do the same for the German operation. And, as "Cash Flow is King", methinks that TC will sell the parts that they can get the best price for.
The Inclusive Tour business Europe-wide is in the trough-part of the 3-to-5 year cycle that affects our industry. One just has to look around at most operators woes.
The survivors will be those who have taken their heads out of the sand, not those that still have their heads buried in the sand, and that applies to the workforce as much as the management.
Those terms and conditions that we, as employees have gained, will rapidly be erroded to pay for all-round mis-management, corruption and general economic malaise.
Oh, dear; I seem to have used the "C" word!
Good luck to all of us, I wish no ill of anyone. Just security and good health for us all.
Sadly, all the uncertainty in my company is now affecting the health of my family.
PS. One other question. How many TC/Condor B757's are parked-up, now?
Last edited by Prince Of Darkness; 17th Nov 2003 at 20:56.
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Lima
I suspect if there is a move to dispose of TC UK/France it was an option looked at a few months ago when this situation was looming, it will not be a snap decision. I agree that debt is debt my point was thay MYT can change leadership and structure to try and improve their situation, TC Ag are still victim to a weak German economy and can do little to effect that.
I think it is time this thread moved to a different title myself. I suspect TC UK will continue in one form or another but as with MYT only time will tell. Good luck.
Tailscape
Keep your hair on no one knows who you are except flex42! Sounds like he hit a nerve though! If personel comment offends you then I would moderate your posts they often seem shall we say insensitive!
I suspect if there is a move to dispose of TC UK/France it was an option looked at a few months ago when this situation was looming, it will not be a snap decision. I agree that debt is debt my point was thay MYT can change leadership and structure to try and improve their situation, TC Ag are still victim to a weak German economy and can do little to effect that.
I think it is time this thread moved to a different title myself. I suspect TC UK will continue in one form or another but as with MYT only time will tell. Good luck.
Tailscape
Keep your hair on no one knows who you are except flex42! Sounds like he hit a nerve though! If personel comment offends you then I would moderate your posts they often seem shall we say insensitive!
Last edited by spy; 17th Nov 2003 at 22:49.
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Prince of Darkness,
I believe the number is 13 757's as previously stated on this thread.
TCX UK has been turned round due to enforced cost savings of £140m that were implememented in the main by a small egyptian fella who, whilst being universally unpopular, got the job done. I'm not sure where these enormous writedowns you refer to come from.
Spy,
That may well be the case. Who knows ? All I do know is that the UK operation has operated profitably whilst MYTs has not this year. Cost cutting and capacity reduction appears to have worked at TCX UK and has worked at other tour operators. Lets hope that MYT management can sort out their long term financing and return to a profitable business model in the UK.
I believe the number is 13 757's as previously stated on this thread.
TCX UK has been turned round due to enforced cost savings of £140m that were implememented in the main by a small egyptian fella who, whilst being universally unpopular, got the job done. I'm not sure where these enormous writedowns you refer to come from.
Spy,
That may well be the case. Who knows ? All I do know is that the UK operation has operated profitably whilst MYTs has not this year. Cost cutting and capacity reduction appears to have worked at TCX UK and has worked at other tour operators. Lets hope that MYT management can sort out their long term financing and return to a profitable business model in the UK.
Last edited by LIMA OR ALPHA JUNK; 17th Nov 2003 at 22:59.
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A quick point.
I have had a complaint that an attempt is being made to identify one of the posters on this thread. This is a no no.
We do not take kindly to anyone naming names on PPRuNe. So be aware that it usually results in one or more persons being removed from the thread - sometimes even removed from PPRuNe.
This thread is VERY important to a lot of people with a lot more to be said, especially is if a sudden announcement is made. Hopefully none. So please stay on topic and have regard to those who work for MYT and who must being feeling very grotty at the moment. Best wishes to them all.
PPP
I have had a complaint that an attempt is being made to identify one of the posters on this thread. This is a no no.
We do not take kindly to anyone naming names on PPRuNe. So be aware that it usually results in one or more persons being removed from the thread - sometimes even removed from PPRuNe.
This thread is VERY important to a lot of people with a lot more to be said, especially is if a sudden announcement is made. Hopefully none. So please stay on topic and have regard to those who work for MYT and who must being feeling very grotty at the moment. Best wishes to them all.
PPP
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Pprune pop
This thread appears to be important only to those who do not work for MYT. Your comment regarding sudden announcements is ill judged an insensitive in the extreme, I suggest you rethink it. I think you will find most MYT employees would gladly see this thread closed it really is not important to them more irritating actually! MYT employees will hear soon enough if there is any news though their own web site.
This thread appears to be important only to those who do not work for MYT. Your comment regarding sudden announcements is ill judged an insensitive in the extreme, I suggest you rethink it. I think you will find most MYT employees would gladly see this thread closed it really is not important to them more irritating actually! MYT employees will hear soon enough if there is any news though their own web site.
Last edited by PPRuNe Pop; 17th Nov 2003 at 23:50.