controllers with broken english
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 28
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From: Spain
Yachtpilot never mind the delay 
Ok, I got it and have just read it.
I must say I agree to some extent. One only language on frequency surely boosts situational awareness and therefore safety.
The problem is not the compulsory use of English for all professional pilots irrespective of his mother tongue or nationality, as most of them are able to manage themselves in english (I believe).
The problem is what to do with non professional pilots flying small planes who lack the skill to comunicate in english? Is it possible to compel someone with the nationality of the state he's flying in to use a foreign language? I'm afraid it isn't or ,at least, very difficult to.
So...
Ok, I got it and have just read it.
I must say I agree to some extent. One only language on frequency surely boosts situational awareness and therefore safety.
The problem is not the compulsory use of English for all professional pilots irrespective of his mother tongue or nationality, as most of them are able to manage themselves in english (I believe).
The problem is what to do with non professional pilots flying small planes who lack the skill to comunicate in english? Is it possible to compel someone with the nationality of the state he's flying in to use a foreign language? I'm afraid it isn't or ,at least, very difficult to.
So...
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 69
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From: London
Guatico...
No I appreciate this, private pilots cannot all be expected to master English in the relatively short time that it takes to aquire a PPL.... I have no phobias about language.. only safety ! In the situation you describe the controller should take care to ensure that the foreign pilot using English is kept aware of the other traffics' movements to ensure situational awareness...
It ads to the radio traffic which is an extra burden but this is preferable to the horrendous consequences of a collision.
No I appreciate this, private pilots cannot all be expected to master English in the relatively short time that it takes to aquire a PPL.... I have no phobias about language.. only safety ! In the situation you describe the controller should take care to ensure that the foreign pilot using English is kept aware of the other traffics' movements to ensure situational awareness...
It ads to the radio traffic which is an extra burden but this is preferable to the horrendous consequences of a collision.
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 69
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From: Aix en Provence, France
just think about small french small airfield where "self information" is in french and english......lots of french private pilots don't understand english...and forign pilots don't understand french....how can it work??? I really don't know.
In some of thes airfield it is compulsory to speak french on frequency (writen on the charts)...but that's not a solution!
I really don't know.In some of thes airfield it is compulsory to speak french on frequency (writen on the charts)...but that's not a solution!
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 28
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From: Spain
Well Yachtpilot, taking advantage of your reply to Priscilla I would add:
Despite this website's issues are primarily aimed at commercial aviation discussion, I guess you will agree with me that controllers issues aren't (or shouldn't) since all pilots (either prof. or PPL) become their equal clients once they're on frequency
Controllers at major airports/ATC facilities or even at minor ones but open to commercial flights usually have to deal with commercial and non commercial traffic every single day so it is still a problem to have non english speaking "PPLs" on frequency.
I'd refer you to the case of XRY/LEJR for example. An airport with regular international/national flights, local aeroclub private pilots, and furthermore, trainees from BAE System flight school, where english communications aren't rare at all, thus improving commercial and BAE pilots' situational awareness. Not being so for most of locals.
So, the more "PPLs" speaking english, the better. Quite a hard work ahead to achieve that, though.
Regards.
PS: Priscilla, a lower ratio of non-controlled airstrips comparing Spain to France also offers certain advantages
Despite this website's issues are primarily aimed at commercial aviation discussion, I guess you will agree with me that controllers issues aren't (or shouldn't) since all pilots (either prof. or PPL) become their equal clients once they're on frequency
Controllers at major airports/ATC facilities or even at minor ones but open to commercial flights usually have to deal with commercial and non commercial traffic every single day so it is still a problem to have non english speaking "PPLs" on frequency.
I'd refer you to the case of XRY/LEJR for example. An airport with regular international/national flights, local aeroclub private pilots, and furthermore, trainees from BAE System flight school, where english communications aren't rare at all, thus improving commercial and BAE pilots' situational awareness. Not being so for most of locals.
So, the more "PPLs" speaking english, the better. Quite a hard work ahead to achieve that, though.
Regards.
PS: Priscilla, a lower ratio of non-controlled airstrips comparing Spain to France also offers certain advantages
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 28
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From: Spain
Hi Maverfic,
I think that would do nothing unless the controller ensures every single direction, clearance etc. given to any pilot (on one or the other freq) is heard on both frequencies on its respective language. That added to continuous frequency switching would greatly increase workload and likelyhood of mistake.
If what stated above is not carried out, how can a pilot on freq. #1 be aware of the instructions issued on freq. #2 to another?
I think that would do nothing unless the controller ensures every single direction, clearance etc. given to any pilot (on one or the other freq) is heard on both frequencies on its respective language. That added to continuous frequency switching would greatly increase workload and likelyhood of mistake.
If what stated above is not carried out, how can a pilot on freq. #1 be aware of the instructions issued on freq. #2 to another?
Ohcirrej
Joined: Feb 2003
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From: This is the internet FFS.........
Was told by a friend from Toronto that controllers in Montreal were strongly in favour of having split frequencies
Bugsmasherdriverandjediknite
Joined: Jul 2000
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From: Bai, mi go long hap na kisim sampla samting.
Robmac,Salam, Apa kamah?. I have had the same experiances with the Indonesians.it doesn't seem to matter what you or them have to say.
just have to love the "KOMOROW TOWER, VICTOR HOTEL ECHO UNIFORM KILO, 50 MILES SOUTH EAST MAINTAINING 8500.
VICTOR HOTEL ECHO UNIFORM KILO, CLEARED TO LAND RUNWAY ONE EIGHT, NEXT CALL BASE.
KOMOROW TOWER, VICTOR HOTEL ECHO UNIFIRM KILO, MA'AF, SAYA BELAM LANCAR DELAM BAHASA INDONESIA. APAKAH ANDA BERBAHASA INGGRIS?.
AAAH, VICTOR HOTEL ECHO UNIFORM KILO, KAMU BAHASA INDONESIA!. BAIK BAIK. SAYA BAHASA INGGRIS TIDAK BAIK. TIDAK APA APA.
you just know its going to be a good place to fly then
strangly enough,whilst off galloping around the Philippines, I had absolutely no problems with Mactan (west) control, cebu director, cebu tower,(cebu ground was a slight drama) Manila director and Manila tower and ground.
All ICAO English and very easy to work with.
just have to love the "KOMOROW TOWER, VICTOR HOTEL ECHO UNIFORM KILO, 50 MILES SOUTH EAST MAINTAINING 8500.
VICTOR HOTEL ECHO UNIFORM KILO, CLEARED TO LAND RUNWAY ONE EIGHT, NEXT CALL BASE.
KOMOROW TOWER, VICTOR HOTEL ECHO UNIFIRM KILO, MA'AF, SAYA BELAM LANCAR DELAM BAHASA INDONESIA. APAKAH ANDA BERBAHASA INGGRIS?.
AAAH, VICTOR HOTEL ECHO UNIFORM KILO, KAMU BAHASA INDONESIA!. BAIK BAIK. SAYA BAHASA INGGRIS TIDAK BAIK. TIDAK APA APA.
you just know its going to be a good place to fly then
strangly enough,whilst off galloping around the Philippines, I had absolutely no problems with Mactan (west) control, cebu director, cebu tower,(cebu ground was a slight drama) Manila director and Manila tower and ground.
All ICAO English and very easy to work with.
Last edited by the wizard of auz; 9th November 2003 at 21:38.
Joined: Apr 2001
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From: Near Stalyvegas
Alex,
The "coanda" was a "Ducted Fan", not a "true" jet.
There was also a Frenchman [name escapes me] who invented a "jet", using the "vacuum" principle in about 1910[ish]
we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy
The "coanda" was a "Ducted Fan", not a "true" jet.
There was also a Frenchman [name escapes me] who invented a "jet", using the "vacuum" principle in about 1910[ish]
we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy
Guest
Posts: n/a
Sorry for the hiatus. Was just off thinking about life, freedom, women and language for a bit.
Think I missed my slot though.
After all, one does need a break now and again: I can't be on the internet TWENTY-FOUR/SEVEN can I?
With regards to Montreal, no it wasn't a wind-up (unless I was on the receiving end), but it was a few years ago.
Any Canadians online to give us a more up-to-date picture? I know some elements of the population had a campaign there to get all the English translations removed from road signs, and there was some talk of being a state independent from the rest of Canada, prompting many to hang up the Maple Leaf in their houses to show support for a united country.
Perhaps viewed in context the ATC idea didn't sound as foolhardy as we find it.
Think I missed my slot though.
After all, one does need a break now and again: I can't be on the internet TWENTY-FOUR/SEVEN can I?
With regards to Montreal, no it wasn't a wind-up (unless I was on the receiving end), but it was a few years ago.
Any Canadians online to give us a more up-to-date picture? I know some elements of the population had a campaign there to get all the English translations removed from road signs, and there was some talk of being a state independent from the rest of Canada, prompting many to hang up the Maple Leaf in their houses to show support for a united country.
Perhaps viewed in context the ATC idea didn't sound as foolhardy as we find it.