what happens if an expat leaves before the contract ends?

IFR under VFR conditions, common in the 3rd world, but yes it doesnt make it correct. Im sure the local boys have terrain verified flight plans in the FMGS..But Why nonpayment of overtime, that sucks. Anyway have they changed thier mind on expat upgrading

Sim
 

G'day all,

Just wondering if anyone has some insight into the sim;/training...heading up there soon for that..

Regards:ok:

At first it seemed like a great place to go to work, hang out in the Philippines, stay at a nice Hotel, not too far from the airport and not too far from the entertainment area.... but, after I was told that if I left, before the contract was finished, I'd have to pay more than $100,000 USD, the balloon popped. There is only one reason, that a company would have that kind of penalty and I think we all know what it is. It's too bad, as I think they could have plenty of expat pilots joining them, but for some reason, they feel the need to schedule the crews in a way that turns the entire experience into a "Nightmare on Roxas Blvd". It's a bummer, it would have been a fun experience....... And, yes, I've flown into Manila a couple hundred times and as in flying into most countries, you adjust.

penalty for leaving before contract
 

There is a penalty or they like to call it training fee/ bond.
all pilots have different bonds US $ 2000 upto US $ 5000 depending when you started. the ones who came in first was less as pilots left before the term it became 5000.

Ask the agency for a copy of the contract. you will find out more.
I have a friend there and he is complaining because the whole process is very slow and you are stuck in Manila doing nothing!

The direct contract with Cebu is where there is a $ 100,000 bond.
Watch out before you sign anything!

I heard that 98 pilots left cebu pacific airlines and these mails i read talk of killer schedules, lousy crew controllers, incompetent management, confusing contracts, trigger happy guards who shoot pilots, dangerous air controllers, etc.......Why bother going there? Maybe it is so easy to get in.

Beware. It's a mouse trap.

Thanks very much for the heads up. I've been flying contract in the Desert and Asia for over 20 years, so have had to adapt and roll with things, more times than I'd like to admit. What do you think guys, going in as dec, putting up with the problems you've mentioned, could a guy last 6 months and then get out? I've been out of the saddle for a couple months and need to get back on, in order to catch this Airbus hiring binge. Thanks again for the info!

hopefully things will change :ok:

Yes, Cessna95 is right, things do change and sometimes it takes longer than we expect. I'd say take the job, it's only for six months and judging from your experience, you might do ok. I finished the skype interview too. Good luck!

If things change just a little, this would be the ultimate expat job. Imagine a expat contract were people actually speak english. I think the problem with Cebu is besides being a low cost run by a rich chinese family(penny pinchers) is lack of experience dealing with expat pilots. There used to dealing with thier own people which are very laid back and probably happy to be flying at home. If they had any brains if they copied vietnam airlines sistem 6 on 2 off/ onn the F/O side match the money, offered upgrade/transition in the case of ATR crews and insurance they would not be bleeding for crews. They just have to understand the reality of paying international rates for flight crews expats or locals. Also if they payed local crews expat terms they would have all their crews working overseas back home. Im sure thier waiting to see the effect of the Air Asia operation, and how it effects crew attrition, market share too see how to proceed.On the positive side their not complicating themselves with recruiting. Skpe interview, HR and TECH (5 quick questions). If you pass they send you a tkt, put you up in a hotel, and start the license process. No time wasted on travel/ interview etc etc any other job in Asia is at least 5 days travel, in the case of Air Asia / Tiger/Jetstar/Vietnam/Air Astana/HK airlines/Sin Cargo/ pay your own way to the interview thats if you can get the time off(Air Astana and HK give you hotel). Cost of living in manila also is very low compared to SIN/HKG/SGN.Only time will tell

THERE is a SIM CHECK
 

I have been told there is a sim check after you arrive in Manila.

Dont be fooled with what you are told over skype interview.

There were numerous pilots who have failed the sim ride after getting to Manila. I emailed one of them so I know for a fact that there is a sim ride when you get to Manila.
It could be a mouse trap. Once you are there only you know?

Don't forget the BOND of Millions of pesos about US $ 100,000.
Just be prepared!

the gun firing is a confirmed incident.I checked with 2 pilots there.

I am thinking you are far better off with Jet Star Asia / Air Asia / Tiger Airways / Jet Star Pacific in Vietnam / Vietnam Airlines.

Air Asia , jet Star asia and pacific are hiring f.o's direct in to Captain program. Of course you must have lots of experience!

Only Air Asia has a DEC program. Sim check is for lic validation, never heard of a airline without a sim check.

Thanks!
 

I appreciate the heads up! I'll definitely check out some of your suggestions. That would be quite a treat to be hired as an FO and then go directly into the Captain program...... :ok:

However, just in case nobody else knocks on my door, if anyone knows the sim profile, I'd really appreciate it and the first round of San mig and balut, is on me!

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

y r u clapping?

cebupac
 

total mess better luck guys

Hi Guys, I have been out here based in Cebu for almost 4 months now. I was placed here through contract air. Although there has been a few hiccups the word on the street is that Cebu are beginning to review contracts :eek: Apart from the heavy rosters, the locals are friendly and location and accommodation is nice. I guess the company have been facing problems due to the lack of the knowledge in expat pilots which is why we have faced a few problems. I must say that I have found contract air to be supportive and if the airline offered better terms for the 1 year contract ie commuting, accommodation, salary increase then I would certainly stay on :ok:

Bond & Agreement that will hold u in Cebu forever
 

Guys, do not make a mistake of joining or signing any contract with Cebu Pacific. They have a clause which states a bond of US$ 100,000 and add to that another clause stating that you cannot fly for any other airline that touches same destination as Cebu Pacific. YES it is correct! This means you cannot apply to any airline in Asia or Middle East.
They don't tell you this before. In fact they don't mention anything about it. Only when you see the contract and read it very carefully that the true picture is displayed.. I heard some Mexicans were offered this contract and they refused. I am not sure if they left Cebu.
Transportation is only for those who stay at the hotel. So if you have a family & want to live in an apartment , you have to arrange your own transportation.
It is not that great of a place. In fact Jet Star Asia , Vietnam Jet Star and Vietnam airlines are much better packages.
Bobflyer, I am happy you passed the interview and are flying for Cebu but do mention all the clauses and how many expat pilots have taken off without a word because CONTRACT AIR will deduct anywhere from US$ 2000 till US $ 5000 or more from your salary if you leave before the term of your contract even after serving a notice period. They increased it from US $ 2000 to US $ 5000 as pilots were willing to pay the training bond of US $ 2000.BE CAREFUL GUYS!

very sad to read this...and again CONTRACTAIR is playing a very poor and bad game with the pilots.
AVOID CONTRACTAIR.:yuk:

contracts
 

It's a bummer about having to surprise the pilots with an unrealistic contract and demands, especially when most have to travel so far. However, it's been my experience, that when a contract is very lopsided, as in the case of a 100k usd penalty and the not being able to work for any airline that lands in any Cebu Pacific city, they are impossible to enforce. Of course, we all need a letter of recommendation and that will be one of the biggest problems.

CONTRACT!
 

Guys, it is very simple when it comes time to land at Cebu Pacific, ask them for a copy of the contract that you will be signing. The complete details, not the one from Contract Air but the one that Cebu will ask you to sign. They will not provide you with that before leaving your home country. some or the other excuses will come up or they will say there is no such contract that you have to sign but when you get to Cebu it is a different story!
Also, some pilots are being paid differently! some are paid more and some paid less. THIS IS TRUE as I spoke to the pilot ( ITALIAN) who is with Cebu Pacific right now. That pilot is paid more than others since DPI or Parc did the recruitment; its a different pay scale.
They emailed me to join on a commutable roster but the pay is less than what another pilot was offered. I know this because I spoke to this pilot also.

Going to HELL (certainly sounds like it)
 

Hey
I got an interview with Cebu coming up in a couple of days through Parc.
Is there anyone willing to share some information on that?

About the place. I just read this thread and lord does it sound like a bad place to go. But my theory is stick with it, just do it, get some more experience/hours, try to have some fun, and get out for something better. It cant be much worse than where I am flying now anyways - North Africa!!

Hope to hear from someone with some info!

No Pay yet!
 

So some expat pilots have not received their pay not overtime but the actual PAY yet and the local pilots all of them have received theirs.
Some HAVE NOT RECEIVED THEIR OVERTIME PAY , so they did not fly for 4 days till this was sorted out.
Be aware ! WHAT A MESS!

Six weeks on two weeks off/Contract Air
 

Was everybodys contract revised with the new 6 weeks off/ 2 weeks off contract. Contract Air is offering these new terms and conditions on thier website and advertised on www.flightglobal.com
The unfair thing is that its only getting offered to Captains, Vietnam, Korean, Air Astana,Asiana, Tanjin Airlines offer same terms to both Capt and Co-Pilots. Word of mouth is all the expat F/O leaving for more competitives Terms and Conditions. Hopefully Cebu will wake up
:ugh:

Not Revised!
 

None of the pilots contracts have been revised.
The pilots don't want to revise it as the actual contract is different from what they tell you. There is a bond
They have a clause which states a bond of US$ 100,000 and add to that another clause stating that you cannot fly for any other airline that touches same destination as Cebu Pacific. YES it is correct! This means you cannot apply to any airline in Asia or Middle East.
They don't tell you this before. In fact they don't mention anything about it. Only when you see the contract and read it very carefully that the true picture is displayed.
Transportation is only for those who stay at the hotel. So if you have a family & want to live in an apartment , you have to arrange your own transportation.

TRY JETSTAR ASIA!
 

Direct hire F.O. to Captain

SNk 595, 100,000 bond not true. its 5,000 for cebu via contract air
F.O. Direct Hire Jet Star Asia not true. Two years upgrade time

Actual contract with Cebu
 

I have an email copy of the contract from Cebu that my friend has emailed me. I am NOT talking about the one from Contract Air. Read the post correctly Fubalier I didn't say from Contract Air.
When you go to Cebu Pacific Air office to sign the contract , all the clauses are in the open.

Jetstar Asia is now offering direct hire F.O. to Captain for those pilots with LOTS of experience.
Do you have 15000 hours with 10000 hours on A320?

Contract
 

Hey Snk596

I suppose you can't PM me a copy of the contract can you...?
I have been invited to manila...for the sim and then commence immediately if succ...but I would like to check things out first...I sure do not want 100k over my head....and to be denied any future employer....
What else do they want??
beers:confused:

No Hurt
 

No hurt to try. I have also passed the skype interview.
If you are going on a direct contract with Cebu Pacific Air be careful! if through an agency then it is okay. the 100k and future employment with others will not apply till after you finish your initial contract with your agency.

I just passed the skype interview as well. I will be going down there for the sim in a couple of weeks. Parc is the agency I use. My contract states 4000 USD. Quite the difference from Contract Air :rolleyes:

Danishpilot80,

did you apply as F/O on the airbus?

cessna95

Yes

Contract
 

Hi Guys,

Just wondering whats is the pay stated in Contract Air.
Mine is with Parc.

Cheers

PAY
 

F.O. Pay

DPI $ 5200 couple of the pilots are getting this pay secretly.
Contract Air $ 4000

Parc $ 4000 with Parc it is direct with Cebu no transportation, no accommodation and pay all the wire charges that the bank imposes on you. When you go to Cebu you will have to negotiate this there.

Heading to Cebu!
 

The bond is fairly high but not 100k like I thought it was. I'll report in when I find out if the contract disallows the employment with any airline that lands at a Cebu field. It would be very strange if it did as almost every airline in the world lands at one of those airports, I'll let you know. I've been in the contract business overseas, for 20+ years, and although, I don't agree with it, virtually all contract companies have different offers and different pay. It's not a secret, it's a fact. I'm contracting directly through Cebu Air, and although my bond is more than a contract company, my pay is quite a bit higher also, since they don't have to pay the contract company. Doesn't that make a little sense? Not all is dark except in the minds of a few......:eek:

....dont forget the Zip Pack.. Surf Pack instead..

Jazz and the Fatman , did they send you the actual contract, the one you have to sign?

Surf pack
 

Ok, I'll get you the surf pack, I already picked up the zip pack but I got hungry about 2am and ate it......

contract review
 

Haaaaa, I think you know the answer to that.... It was as you said, they will show me the contract when I arrive. Actually, I've experienced this before and only one other company allowed me to have the contract ahead of time. If in fact, the contract is not doable, I'll head to the beach for a few days and perhaps even have a beer or two before heading home. I'll let you know what happens but if it's as you say, I don't think there is a pilot alive that would sign away their rights to work for a year, so we'll see. Thanks for the heads up and if anyone knows what the arrival sim ride is about, I'd appreciate a PM.