Gents , can any of you give us some honest examples of the " type" of questions you are asked on line training ( broken English et al) . Also when you say guys are being failed on their checkrides . Is this the local regulating body (CAA equivalent) inspector or KAL examiner thats failing the guys ? Its difficult to form a picture of the process.

Surely you cant be expected to memorise frequencies en route etc etc.?

Thanks

Indeed as someone mentioned, success in KAL is like winning a lottery. When I first came during the end of the dark days in late 1999 and early 2000, OE was very " loud " with hardly any training. Every flight was a check flight with the LCP jumping at every trivial thing not to his liking. I almost gave up until I was assigned to a wonderful new foreign LCP. This chap showed me the ropes; ever patient he went through a whole 3 days before our OE training together at the OC building in Kimpo using the fixed base engineering ( I to was a non rated DEC ). I was so lucky to have a series of OE training with this gentleman that I had enough confidence to continue with the torturous OE training. Obviously he was quite respected by the then head of KAL B777 training ( if I remember right, he was the first KAL B777 expat recruited ) and he did put in a good word for me.

If one manage to get a good report from a " senior " LCP, then the juniors will continue the train of good report and it will be fairly comfortable training on. If one start on a wrong foot with a nasty, then it's a goner! A lottery really!!

I am now out of there for some years now. Looking back I wouldn't want to do it again. The stress, uncertainty and arbitary changes in contract conditions were too much to bear. I aged, I guess, at almost 3 times the rate as my contemporaries in SQ, EK etc. For guys with a fairly outfit, do think hard, very hard before embarking on this kimchi adventure!

How true are the posts on this thread. Have a few buddies - Koreans and foreigners - both at KAL and Asiana. I just have to chuckle and shake my head. I feel for the guys who failed. And I hear it's pretty much the same across the channel in the land of the rising sun. The pass/fail rate at ANA last year and this year was only marginally better than
KAL's.

Definitely do your homework on the company and the societal culture before you consider anything in the Far East.

Sorry Joe
 

May I humbly disagre with you: the passe/fail rate ratio means nothing as long as the evaluation system itself is absolutely inconsistent.
It's more a lottery than anything else. It's not related to proficiency, experience or airmanship.

You are clearly misinformed or are one of the "lottery" winners or even KAL staff, sorry...

It's interesting that every time I'm about to decide to take a look at that outfit I discover that the sad circus is still going on full tilt.:mad:

The Asian Quickstep.....Lesson One
 

Dear Cantdance,

I thought of a long winded response to your last post, especially the management jibe. However, after 54fighting highlighted your overt actions and attitudes in the "house of your keeper". I have decided to let you know what I am about...

I am just a "white nigger" earning my corn bread and mighty thankful to my master.

Suggested reading: Samual Huntington's Clash of Civilisations

KAL
 

PM me if you want to read the whole story posted by 'Human Cargo'.

Does it read like a Greek Tradgedy???

Korean Air lies are called "saving face"
 

54fighting: Last year (2007) at Korean Air 11 out of 14 B-777 pilots were sent home (in your words: "failed training"). In 2008; so far 5 out of 6 pilots have 'failed'. Think about it. Statistically that just isn't possible unless something is seriously wrong. You may have read my report but you obviously didn't understand it. Or as a management 'wanabee' (maybe you are management) you are doing all you can to discredit the truth. All I was trying to do is give a heads up to pilots that are planning to spend $20,000 or more of their hard earned money on the B-777 type rating only to find out that the Korean Air offer is a sham. I didn't get my money back. Additionally I spent four of the most miserable months of my life giving them my best effort and doing exactly what they wanted. In the end they lied. They are still lying and calling it "saving face".

54fighting handle is obviously a misnomer. Fighting who? I think the rest of the readers get it. I can't help you.

Obviously you did not do your homework wrt working for KAL...it's a lottery with heavy odds stacked against you. Maybe you were lured into this by expat fellows in KAL who want to swell up expat ranks so that they can be " management " something in the KAL flight ops circus.

Play The Game.
 

COKEBOTTLE.
How is Tai-pay??.The most valid point in all this, is that no amount of homework and good attitude will be enough to counter a Training Captain with a bad attitude to students.The most basic of attributes for a trainer is that he MUST NOT present methods and techniques that are purely his own as if they are Company SOP.This is unproffessional and can only be adapted to by taking notes so you can remember each and every trainers personal methods.You stated Asiana and KAL have good reputations, but I seem to remember the whole world was aghast with the very high number of crashes in Korea in the not too distant past, and their poor training methods, as shown on PPRUNE would be a big factor in all this.Fcuk them, im NOT going there.

Piratepete,

Tai-pay is fine - the amount of money is not the only T & C to be considered in a LIFESTYLE

My statement was:

....and not the:

from your last post.

Gotta run..tha masta is a call'in

Why are you not going there and expirience first hand how embarressing the training is. You sit up and do your "homework" and when you show up for the flight you will learn that all is worth nothing..... you will not pass. You are not up to standart. Consequently you bring your books and you will be out faster then you think, China is similar, bad Pilot is the feedback to the Agency.

During the period of 1998/99 there was just a note under your door in the Hotel. Ticket to fly home in an envelope. Leave the Company property with the Hotel. Believe it, what is stated above is only the tip of the Iceberg. What the fellows do to you, you understand is not imaginable in any nightmare. If you are at a Bar and tell the people what you encountered there they look at you and think you have a too wild imagination but is only a fraction. If you are on a suicidal mission then go for it: Destroy your confidence and career path. Who want´s to state in his CV why he left KAL after 3 or 4 months. When I get a CV on the table and read the short period of time there then I know it was as training issue.

I can contact some Buddy´s there for you but it is your call, not mine.

Fly safe and land happy

NG

B737NG,

as far as I remember you left KAL voluntary and in bad terms before your OE even started.
And did you pay back CAL your training bond?
How does that look in your CV?
You know,because of you nobody gets off anmore between recieving the passport back and OE,you did KAL management a real favour with showing off your attitude.
better spare the mankind with your drivel.

TOM744, are you Tom Divine, “Advisor Flight Standards and Training” for KAL?

Shame!
 

Too sad this scandal arose only now, through the courage and dignity of few.
How many careers and professional reputations, not counting families suffering could be saved if people could know in advance what a trap they were lured into.
It's beyond imagination why the main airline of a country with so many fantastic achievements endorses such dirty, untrustworthy tricks.
What a bunch of liars and psychopats!:\



And shame on you TOM in defending such a cage of reptiles.

B-744 Program?
 

Are the same antics going on in the 744 pipeline?

@j-p744

no, I'm not Tom Divine.

@fullforward

I'm NOT defending these practices;
I'm in contact with the person concerned and yes, it's a shame!
But my post was entirely directed to someone who pretends to know about it but actally left after ground training and therefore has only second hand information.

@portquartercv67

as I am aware there are almost no failures on the 744 but it happens occasionally.
It's totally differnt from western training culture; don't expect any instruction;they expect you to know everything.
If you know about asian culture and know your standart callouts you almost made it.
But it's not a guarantee; some guys had really bad luck and their training was a big hassle but they passed at the end.
That's 744, 777 is different in the moment.

And it's true,
from the last 777 course 6 out of 7 failed; the failure rate in previous 777 courses was only a little better.

What about on the A330 fleet?

Are we talking about all 777 courses or just the full transition courses? How many, if any of the failed guys were previously endorsed with time on the aircraft?

I’ve been at KAL a bunch of years. One of the best contract jobs around.
But I can relate to what cantdance writes. I see no exaggeration, I’ve seen it all.

The LCP acting as F/O for him for his checkride is one of the nicest fellows around, a true gentleman. But faced with the pressure of an already decided outcome by the KMOT, he did what generations before him has done – knuckled down under superior pressure. He should have performed as CRM dictated, and challenged the checker on unfair issues, been a man for once, but would I have been different if I had been raised in that culture? Would you have?

Cantdance, you are right to feel anger, I do too, you grew up in a culture that was so different, as did I, and even though you were aware of the vast cultural differences, some things are absolute, especially in aviation, transcending the barriers, so that you were compelled to speak out. I commend you, you were right, and I’m glad you let us all know.

We've seen many improvements over the last decade, but there are many more required.