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Originally Posted by EagleA25
(Post 10117083)
What aa means it that you should start looking for greener pastures and take VNA as your last resort, if it is the last you have.
I agree with him, it is NOT a safe place to fly, and you need to have either a good lawyer or a thick skin here. And if you have thoughts about making this a career, it’s not a place to stay! I hear somewhere they will change Fleet Managers (again); so everything will be happy-happy again, right? The definition of insanity comes to mind... I kinda feel for Cap. Son here; he’s good hearted but they put him in a crap position. If you accept Instructor here, you WILL have political pressure to pass the sons of the management pilots, no matter how incompetent they are! Read the sop and apply it. Why fly ap athr off. That is what the sim is for. I dont agree with practicing abnormal procedures in the real aircraft is the way forward, so i dont. Never have, never will. Unless required by training. Use apprpriate automation at all times. Its there in writing. If you take everything off, then prang it, you may be poorly placed. |
Originally Posted by ia1166
(Post 10117587)
I was alluding more to follow the sop strictly. As is stated in many many fsrs that are issued by the company. Also as captain you are tesponsible. As i said before with the static port incident.
Read the sop and apply it. Why fly ap athr off. That is what the sim is for. I was not alluding to what you said. |
Originally Posted by ia1166
(Post 10117588)
And take over early maybe.
I was not alluding to what you said. |
Originally Posted by VietJetPilot
(Post 10114685)
Well, yesterday the company sent out its monthly Fleet Bulletin, or what I like to call, it’s very own “freak-show-summary”.
As a result of the incident ALL flight ops, including training flights, are allowed using A/T on, except of course when A/T is not available due to MEL; then their “safety conscience” is not as important as on-time-performance. So, when the risk is requiered, it is allowed, but in normal operation a student, Captain or First Officer, are not getting the training requiered. As this cost the job of an Expat Instructor who not only has been teaching at VNA for a VERY long time but I also highly respect for his skills as a mentor and teacher, I am especially disappointed in the managers as they are supposed to support their Instructors in cases like that and investigate what went wrong, not just apply blame, for it not happen again! My question: who was the Sim-Instructor that signed the local First Officer off for line Training? Was he also fired? (I am saying HE because Vietnam has NO female instructors in aviation!). Why was the severe lack of Manual flying skills not addressed at THAT stage already? Was it because he is the son of a management pilot (again)? Is it still ethically and culturally not right to critique a student early enough in training BEFORE he/she becomes a threat? My point is, there is a SERIOUS problem with managing bad apples in this company, especially the local ones, but you, as an Expat, responsible for everything, are to sit quietly as this is not supposed to concern you! As someone here said before, it’s a corrupt circus that won’t change... :( Actually the fcom states use appropriate automation at all times. Fd athr off is a required item in the opc/lpc. You can have 1 resit under caav regulations to fly this within perscribed limits. If you cant, you fail the sim and need additional sim training to correct. The procedures are in place to train and correct in the sim. Not the aircraft. Additionally, if you had an abnormal in the real aircraft that required manual flight, i would assume the skipper would take control and fly it, as the most experienced pilot. So the fo would not need to do this anyway. Thats why they are the fo. Low experience. Once they are experienced and have a demonstrated high ability, they get promoted. Thats the whole concept. |
Originally Posted by ia1166
(Post 10117616)
Actually the fcom states use appropriate automation at all times. Fd athr off is a required item in the opc/lpc. You can have 1 resit under caav regulations to fly this within perscribed limits. If you cant, you fail the sim and need additional sim training to correct.
The procedures are in place to train and correct in the sim. Not the aircraft. Additionally, if you had an abnormal in the real aircraft that required manual flight, i would assume the skipper would take control and fly it, as the most experienced pilot. So the fo would not need to do this anyway. Thats why they are the fo. Low experience. Once they are experienced and have a demonstrated high ability, they get promoted. Thats the whole concept. So, if we are at the whole “need everything” concept, why are we flying into Tuy Hoa without Papi, approach or Runway lighting? And since we are on following SOP’s “strictly”, very few follow Flaps 3, idle reverse and packs off T/O’s... I know because I keep getting weired looks on my FO’s faces when I do it, just like when I do one-Engine Taxi-in and -out... any comments on that? |
On a different note: anyone hear anything about the two engine puff-puff from Vietjet in Da Nang?
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Originally Posted by EagleA25
(Post 10117691)
I might not quite get the part about the concept; in the Sim, manual flying, yes, Airplane, no; so if the A/T is inop, I should fly myself all day, or better, just reject the plane? I mean, worst thing in Sim I could bump my head, right? In real life... my job?
So, if we are at the whole “need everything” concept, why are we flying into Tuy Hoa without Papi, approach or Runway lighting? And since we are on following SOP’s “strictly”, very few follow Flaps 3, idle reverse and packs off T/O’s... I know because I keep getting weired looks on my FO’s faces when I do it, just like when I do one-Engine Taxi-in and -out... any comments on that? ATHR is recommended for all phases of flight. FCOM. No airline specific sop allowing captains to take it out to practice an abnormal situation. It was under training flight, but this was not a training flight. And its not now sadly. To me practicing an FCOM ABNORMAL in the real aircraft just doesn't make any sense. Anyway as a Captain you should be able to operate without ATHr as you should have the experience and ability. With FD and AP how hard can it be???? ATHR INOP is permitted under MEL. But NO AP, NO FD, NO ATHR would come under multiple associated MEL entries and would be a no dispatch condition. And i wouldn't be too keen to fly ATH INOP for more than 1 sector to recover to main base, and would then ask for another aircraft. Flying with it all off by choice is not permitted under FCOM, and is putting the aircraft in a NO DISPATCH condition. Do so and prang it? As the Captain you will be held accountable for sure. Anywhere in the world. Sorry but thats the case here. As i said, there is a proper approved procedure in the LPC/OPC requirements to practice this condition. Under supervised and recorded conditions. There is a section on day1 for extra training at the discretion of the instructor. You should ask for extra training if you want some. It will be noted on the form and some other items will be marked as not flown due extra training given. On check day you will need to perform to required limits, or a resit or extra training will be noted. There is no requirement to practice in the real aircraft. I have never had anybody ask me for a some practice athr/fd off in the sim. Why not? Its easy to do and the best place to do it. |
Originally Posted by EagleA25
(Post 10117083)
What aa means it that you should start looking for greener pastures and take VNA as your last resort, if it is the last you have.
I agree with him, it is NOT a safe place to fly, and you need to have either a good lawyer or a thick skin here. And if you have thoughts about making this a career, it’s not a place to stay! I hear somewhere they will change Fleet Managers (again); so everything will be happy-happy again, right? The definition of insanity comes to mind... I kinda feel for Cap. Son here; he’s good hearted but they put him in a crap position. If you accept Instructor here, you WILL have political pressure to pass the sons of the management pilots, no matter how incompetent they are! If i fail people, which i do, it has never been questioned. |
I have to agree with all you said 1186. But I suspect it's all sorted by rostering before you get the candidate.
They roster the right TRE....... Or if one of the favored one's find you on their training roster they "suddenly" go sick? |
No auto thrust against FCOM? Hey dude, you
Must be smoking. I changed a couple of outfits in Europe recently and they all fly autopilot off / auto trust off...every single flight. Appropriate use of automations means...appropriate.
Originally Posted by ia1166
(Post 10117716)
Sure. flaps 3 pax off single engine taxi. All allowed under FCOM. All in VN airline specific sops. All at Captains discretion. Reverse use is covered under SOP. All at captains discretion. Personally i try not to do any of them unless there really is good reason for it. Life is hard enough when flying with cadets.
ATHR is recommended for all phases of flight. FCOM. No airline specific sop allowing captains to take it out to practice an abnormal situation. It was under training flight, but this was not a training flight. And its not now sadly. Not that i do it anyway. EVER. To me practicing an FCOM ABNORMAL in the real aircraft just doesn't make any sense. Anyway as a Captain you should be able to operate without ATHr as you should have the experience and ability. With FD and AP how hard can it be???? ATHR INOP is permitted under MEL. But NO AP, NO FD, NO ATHR would come under multiple associated MEL entries and would be a no dispatch condition. And i wouldn't be too keen to fly ATH INOP for more than 1 sector to recover to main base, and would then ask for another aircraft. Flying with it all off by choice is not permitted under FCOM, and is putting the aircraft in a NO DISPATCH condition. Do so and prang it? As the Captain you will be held accountable for sure. Anywhere in the world. Sorry but thats the case here. As i said, there is a proper approved procedure in the LPC/OPC requirements to practice this condition. Under supervised and recorded conditions. There is a section on day1 for extra training at the discretion of the instructor. You should ask for extra training if you want some. It will be noted on the form and some other items will be marked as not flown due extra training given. On check day you will need to perform to required limits, or a resit or extra training will be noted. There is no requirement to practice in the real aircraft. I have never had anybody ask me for a some practice athr/fd off in the sim. Why not? Its easy to do and the best place to do it. |
Originally Posted by Arewerunning
(Post 10118273)
No auto thrust against FCOM? Hey dude, you
Must be smoking. I changed a couple of outfits in Europe recently and they all fly autopilot off / auto trust off...every single flight. Appropriate use of automations means...appropriate. So yeah; I’m also calling Bull**** 🤣 |
Originally Posted by ia1166
(Post 10117716)
...
I have never had anybody ask me for a some practice athr/fd off in the sim. Why not? Its easy to do and the best place to do it. then, at the same time, MY most uncomfortable check-rides we’re all with locals... they just make sure you know from the get-go that they have authority... sad, wired culture... 🤦🏼*♂️ |
Originally Posted by EagleA25
(Post 10118775)
I remember reading LH and German wings have as SOP at 1000 ft the ATHR going off, always...
So yeah; I’m also calling Bull**** �� I also understand, that at least United if not more US airlines follow the rule "autopilot off, ATHR off". If one does not posses the basic skill of landing an airplane without auto thrust, than this person should consider another profession. |
Originally Posted by ia1166
(Post 10117716)
... There is no requirement to practice in the real aircraft. ... . Let’s just recall Asiana 214: can’t even do a VISUAL approach, let alone handfly... mixed with inadequate pride and cultural respect! ia, all arguments I read from you are excuses for the laziness and inadecuacy to do your job properly; or is it simple fear to speak up? Has pleasing management become so much more important? In any form, you have become mediocre; and at least admit it to yourself! The box will not solve critical thinking problems, it’s the attitude to being able to think outside said box, that will. But sure, keep up the good work; the definition of insanity is doing the same and expecting different results; and the frequency of severe events is increasing! And as Na Instructor, YOU are part of the system. If this was SO bad, and the FO was properly trained, why was no go-around initiates by the FO? You see, any FO should be able to replace a Captain if nesesary and even though does not have the experience, should at least have the skills to; we OWE that much to our customers! But in this airline, the skill level on the line deteriorates and hand-flying is almost seen as a crime... thanks to laziness being the motivator! |
Cat ate everyone’s tongue...?
Must have said something that either stung or was completely on target 🤦🏼*♂️ |
More like a winde up Troll. End of.
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Ia1166, what you say is scary and so wrong. I really hope you are trolling. You can’t be serious. You know you might have to fly in direct law in the real aircraft right? Happened in 2016 in my company.
Never praticsing raw data flights in the real aircraft is a recipe for disaster. The fact you are saying you won’t accept to fly more than one sector with A/THR inop says it all. Surely it’s not ideal but would not be a problem if you were doing it in a regular basic. Noone can claim to be able to fly accurately an aircraft raw data by just training in the sim. Period. |
It may be SOP to use full automation whenever possible. Doesn’t mean you can’t have a practice at raw data every now and then. Just don’t F*CK it up when you do otherwise be prepared for BOTH crew to be called in because BOTH failed in their primary duties. Previous posts indicated unfair treatment to the Captain but at the end of the day he/she allowed the inexperienced FO to fly raw data and failed to correct when that FO went outside parameters. You are having a go at management for doing their jobs?
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Ups, we did it again...
Well, it’s all over the News Channels... how the f**k did we manage this? Wrong Runway landing... great job! Oh, please, explain how our superior training at VNA should have avoided this, because a Vice Minister of the Red Patty was on board... let’s see how we didn’t follow SOP’s strictly this time... |
It was all written
in less tha 1 year sice almost all expat FO some of the ready for upgrade where gently sent home: 2 runway excursion 1 tail strike 1 landing on a close/underconstruction work (stradars of black listed company) is that a coincidence? maybe think about that |
Anyone got their standard “follow Standard Operations Procedures strictly” email already...? hahahahah |
I am SO interested in IA’s comment on this one... what’s VNA’s excuse this time? |
Originally Posted by VietJetPilot
(Post 10134360)
I am SO interested in IA’s comment on this one... what’s VNA’s excuse this time? |
Originally Posted by EagleA25
(Post 10134310)
Anyone got their standard “follow Standard Operations Procedures strictly” email already...? hahahahah The captain is responsible at all times. |
Originally Posted by ia1166
(Post 10136194)
follow the sop and brief in accordance. Its a standard arrival brief, including the 10-9. A proper arrival brief would have picked it up. The captain is responsible at all times. Four serious incidents in less than one year (and more that we do not know about ?) can hardly be blamed on not simply following SOP, even though for sure some SOP breach was present at every incident. How about judgement ? Does your SOP have an answer for every unpredictable situation we as professional pilots are trained to deal with ? It's easy to get on the "follow SOP" blame game, but I think it's time for your company and senior instructors like yourself to stand up and demand a "root cause" study. Was lack of proper training leading to incidents, lack of proper judgment, lack of support (CRM ?) fatigue, stress or other human factors. A man with your experience knows for sure than one factor does not lead to an incident or accident. The scenarios usually build up by several factors amounting to one bad result. Just my two cents. |
Laughing...
Originally Posted by ia1166
(Post 10136194)
follow the sop and brief in accordance. Its a standard arrival brief, including the 10-9. A proper arrival brief would have picked it up. The captain is responsible at all times. I know everyone has heard this saying: “the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, but expecting different results!” Therefore: Step 1: blame the recently arrived Expat; he is expendable: Step 2: set up an elaborate blame and shame show, so that the locals have something to jack off to Step 3: pretend that management sees everything, do so by running around the airport pretending to know what they are doing. Step 4: make sure the public, and especially the Red Party, knows, it was a foreigner, since Vietnamese don’t do this! Step 5: hire a replacement pilot from a country that desperately needs a job, is disposable, and will be submissive and make no problems if fired. If I was the US Pilot, I’d be in touch with my embassy and the FAA; I’d make a full report, requiere an audit and SUE Vietnam Airlines for public endangerment and wrongful work termination! Will it stick? Probably not, but it will put a HUGE dent into VNA’s plans to operate to the States... and in my opinion, they shouldn’t; not even to Europe! |
Ia1166 is one of the factor that drowned the standard at vna: where the fo was? And mostly who train the fo? |
Originally Posted by Ruzki
(Post 10136561)
Ia1166 is one of the factor that drowned the standard at vna: where the fo was? And mostly who train the fo? If I’m not mistaken, what Wingedeagle is trying to say is that people are not machines; and as many of us have exclaimed, there is NO checks and balances in Vietnam Airlines. Fact is, someone let both FO and Captain our into this wide-wide world. Someone did not do the job to evaluate the skipper nor the FO. Someone dispatched the flight without making sure the crew knew what was going on (yeah, I sign papers all day, too, but important things should be highlitghted, or not?) and that person is off the hook; someone trained the lad, and is off the hook; someone released the Second in Command, and both are off the hook! But the worst is this: There is a general “I really, really don’t give a ****” ambience we are working in! I mean, everyone hangs around the place thinking “if it imploded tomorrow, who cares?”; and it stinks because guys like me, who try their best to be as professional as possible, feel that we all have let the lad down... but I guess, that’s just me, right? Well, I think with the backing of the FAA and a really good lawyer, yeah, I actually think he could get a good settlement... it happens like this in life sometimes...! Squeeze them Lemonades... |
Faa and easa had been advised. |
Holy **** you guys
The captain IS responsible Yes of course we are all only human, and there are factors i.e. he's new to the company and I believe hadn't flown the RNAV20 approach before. Isn't that the biggest reason of all to be very cautious and make a full briefing, keep the autopilot engaged, get stable early, follow the RNAV lateral & vertical profile, cross check EVERYTHING. The RNAV appch takes you straight to the threshold at 500'. I flew it today and in my opinion it's damn near impossible to misidentify it from minima if you're on profile. You NEVER call visual if you're in ANY doubt as to runway position. Your FO appearing to be confident of his position, is not an excuse that will save your ass in court. I know IA1166 to be a damn good and conscientious instructor and I'm sure him and many other instructors are tearing their hair out about how can they train for this kind of screwup. Let's hear some of you guys' practical suggestions, as to how the instructor team can actually write a sim syllabus that will "train" people to not do something as crazy as misidentifying a half built runway in CAVOK conditions when you have so many visual cues like the ND and the lack of PAPIs and the complete lack of rubber marks on the runway etc etc etc. Some of you guys are still talking "us" vs "them" as though you still think you're better. "We" the expats are the ones responsible for two pretty big insurance claims in the last few weeks. The rainy season is here now and it's dangerous out there. Time to walk the talk that we are professional pilots, and double down on caution and situational awareness and yes, following SOP |
Originally Posted by Luke SkyToddler
(Post 10136941)
Holy **** you guys
The captain IS responsible Yes of course we are all only human, and there are factors i.e. he's new to the company and I believe hadn't flown the RNAV20 approach before. Isn't that the biggest reason of all to be very cautious and make a full briefing, keep the autopilot engaged, get stable early, follow the RNAV lateral & vertical profile, cross check EVERYTHING. The RNAV appch takes you straight to the threshold at 500'. I flew it today and in my opinion it's damn near impossible to misidentify it from minima if you're on profile. You NEVER call visual if you're in ANY doubt as to runway position. Your FO appearing to be confident of his position, is not an excuse that will save your ass in court. I know IA1166 to be a damn good and conscientious instructor and I'm sure him and many other instructors are tearing their hair out about how can they train for this kind of screwup. Let's hear some of you guys' practical suggestions, as to how the instructor team can actually write a sim syllabus that will "train" people to not do something as crazy as misidentifying a half built runway in CAVOK conditions when you have so many visual cues like the ND and the lack of PAPIs and the complete lack of rubber marks on the runway etc etc etc. Some of you guys are still talking "us" vs "them" as though you still think you're better. "We" the expats are the ones responsible for two pretty big insurance claims in the last few weeks. The rainy season is here now and it's dangerous out there. Time to walk the talk that we are professional pilots, and double down on caution and situational awareness and yes, following SOP I agree with both you and IA, yeah, we skippers are “ultimately” responsible for everything, but both of you have to admit there is something really wrong in this company about it’s recruitment and training traditions; upon arrival here, I myself went through 5 days of “laziness” ground training with mediocre English speaking local instructors here in HCM, followed by 6 flights, that’s 3 only Days, of flight training; that was IT! No Simulator Training, no Operational indoctrination, just a quick hop in the office to fill out paper work, two pages of standard PA announcements, and the request to “follow SOP’s”. That was three years ago and at one point I was actually looking for a new fan club to go to because I thought to myself “they can’t be serious; they are playing around but not hiring me!”. If I was a manager here, a personally responsible part for the direction and longevity of this company, my EGO by itself would dictate a LOT more indoctrination training than what I got here. I get the fact that Emirates or Qatar is way too extreme, but VNA is nothing in comparison; can’t it be something in the middle? And while I have the attention of some Expat Instructors here, what is up with the Chief Pilot wanting to meet up with Expats on their day off? Yeah, so, the safety consciousness suddenly kicks in with him, probably because he’s getting a lot more phone calls from the CEO now, and the way to fix it is by having a pow-wow with selected Expats when they have BBQ plans and supposed to be on their legal rest day off... it puzzles me; seems they are trying very hard to adapt western cultures, too (sarcasm!). So, with this in mind, I’m confused, is this a critical situation for VNA, or not? Because if it was, then shouldn’t they schedule me for this meeting, so Mr Chief Pilot can actually have my full attention of the message he wishes to convey?!? This month’s Blame and Shame game has officially been scheduled for tomorrow, and I would like to know why my schedule hasn’t been adjusted, accordingly? Is it because I’ll be flying to Cam Ranh myself tomorrow? Fact is, the SMS in VNA is a non-exsistant joke! It’s in the books, yes, but with the turn over that this company has, it is neither adecuate nor able to do its job. Instead of helping identifying risks and dangerous patterns in order to adequately train and modify behavior, it’s simply abused to punish its most important participants: the pilots! And while the locals have an economic solutions to getting their slates cleaned by, occurrences like this one by Expat Captains get the local pilots into a frenzy. Some of ya should go by the fleet office in Saigon these days; when they see an Expat head sticking through the door it gets VERY quiet suddenly... Sorry, I for my part am not impressed at all, as usual... |
So many criticisms and so few solutions offered
So tell us, specifically, what would you do to stop this kind of thing happening in future? If you say "more training" then tell us exactly what you want to do and what extra items you will add to the sim syllabus, and what items you will take OUT of the sim syllabus to fit everything into the 4 hour slot You say "observer flights" but we all know you can go months without doing the 20 approach, will you keep the guy on line training until he's done EVERY approach from both ends of EVERY runway in the network? **** happens. He's not 100% responsible, and I hope that the captain doesn't get sacrificed, and the FO and the ATC don't also get what they deserve. They probably won't. That's a cultural thing. I don't disagree with you that it's wrong. I just can't see what the instructors and safety department could have done differently or better in this particular case. If you CAN see something then please do take it to them, I mean that. I don't think they'd ignore you if you have a good suggestion. |
Luke, more training alone would have not fixed the latest incidents. The two runway excursions and the tail strike: a simple go around would have taken care of everything. Sounds like a lack of good judgement: judgement cannot be trained. However the airline could do so much more to help the crew make a good judgement. It can start with doing away with punitive culture and implementing a non punitive one (SMS). No reports should be required in case of a go around. If a crew decides to execute a missed approach, more power to them. The public shaming needs to stop. And if a crew does deserve to get a slap on the wrist, it should be done behind closed doors. Secondly the company needs to get away from an Aero Club mentality and become a real airline. This means either hire real dispatchers or train the ones who call themselves "dispatchers" to provide proper information to crews during briefing. It takes more to be a dispatcher than print out flight plans and tell you the ZFW. As far as training, train the F/Os to properly read NOTAMS. There is more to NOTAMS than VIP movements. Runway and taxiway closures etc. need to be addressed. And lastly, it takes authorities weeks and perhaps months to investigate an incident. Strangely at VNA it takes a couple of days and the "follow SOP strictly" solves it all. Till next time ....
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Originally Posted by wingdeagle
(Post 10137386)
Luke, more training alone would have not fixed the latest incidents. The two runway excursions and the tail strike: a simple go around would have taken care of everything. Sounds like a lack of good judgement: judgement cannot be trained. However the airline could do so much more to help the crew make a good judgement. It can start with doing away with punitive culture and implementing a non punitive one (SMS). No reports should be required in case of a go around. If a crew decides to execute a missed approach, more power to them. The public shaming needs to stop. And if a crew does deserve to get a slap on the wrist, it should be done behind closed doors. Secondly the company needs to get away from an Aero Club mentality and become a real airline. This means either hire real dispatchers or train the ones who call themselves "dispatchers" to provide proper information to crews during briefing. It takes more to be a dispatcher than print out flight plans and tell you the ZFW. As far as training, train the F/Os to properly read NOTAMS. There is more to NOTAMS than VIP movements. Runway and taxiway closures etc. need to be addressed. And lastly, it takes authorities weeks and perhaps months to investigate an incident. Strangely at VNA it takes a couple of days and the "follow SOP strictly" solves it all. Till next time ....
perhaps a side note: a reason for a go-around for statistical purposes I would request, purpose to identify patterns such as ATC, weather, or simply Pilot Training. One thing I like what you said, and I mean a lot, is the “get rid of punitive measurement” and “need for public shaming”mentality; I just can’t get my head around how the Chief Pilot wishes to improve their relationship with pilots by handing it to them with sticks. Do managers really believe we wake up and get out of bed in the morning with the intent of breaking an airplane today? Luke, in my comments I ment no offense, and I think (and hope) we’re all on the same team, because I know it’s hard to teach common sense in this region; what is even harder is teaching in an internal company culture that inspires a privilege of laziness, Because that is what is happening: we are too comfortable with not moving another finger to even audit ourselfs when we fly! Perhaps even because some of us might not like what we will see at the end as the work ambience of the company promotes a level laziness that I can only describe as Habit-forming; and I am the first to admit: I am one of them! I agree that “**** happens”, and being a keen AvHerald reader, I am very aware it happens all the time; but you can’t just go out to the plane with your fingers crossed hoping that it won’t happen to you today. I remember hearing a local FO saying “we don’t always have to do everything perfectly!” to which I replied asking him if he would want ME to do my job perfectly if his mother or girlfriend was on board; guess what, I’ve never seen an FO enter the requested enrute winds so quickly into the MCDU in my career because I explained him that we owe this to all our customers, not just his family... Fact is, if your normal ops is disciplined, your abnormal will be a matter of mind-over-body; but when things go wrong and you were not doing your job the way you are supposed to, and are not used to doing it, chances are that will probably end with a hull loss if it is a more complex failure. But, as asked, here is my wish, Luke, and IA1166: take the list that Wingedeagle mentioned and put it in front of management, in writing; that way it is a responsability that the managers HAVE to comply with or be accountable in case of an accident. Have the balls as experienced instructors in Vietnam Airlines to highly recommend these changes, promote a non-punitive SMS system, one that analyzes data and corrects behavior, not beats its best source of information to pulp and into submission by ways of the force and fear! If not, the turn over rate will just keep going and nothing good will come from that... I myself am just too lazy to look for a new job by now... |
Fair enough wingdeagle can't disagree with any of that
Also on further reflection I think now would be a very good time to push for a big overhaul of our bloated briefings, and replace them with a "threat forward", shorter more relevant and more interactive brief, such as they are using in Alaskan and Cathay and a few other forward thinking airlines nowadays https://www.aerosociety.com/news/briefing-better/ "If" I was an instructor I'd be pushing for that. But like most pilots here, I'm 0% interested in the extra stress, politics and risk to my licence of being an instructor, vs the miniscule extra reward they pay for it. Maybe that's something else that needs to change |
I just finished 4 years withVNA. Unfortunalty They have gotten worse every year I have been here. You make the mistake of going with Parc. Your contract is worth nothing. 7 paid sick days in 6 months says the contract. But company changed FOM so your schedule if screwed for rest of month after calling in sick and you have to work extra day to repay company. how is that a paid sick day? Basically the company does what ever they want and Parc Rolls over immediately. There are No Regs Here at all. If You go over Your allowed Captains discretion Vice President calls and all of a sudden You are magically legal to fly till u drop. I have been coerced into doing 19 hour 6 sector all nite duty!!!! And forget about any travel benfits. U only get ( more expensive then real ticket online) standby tickets only where company operates. No sky team. No code shar, no zed far. No interline. because of the contract you will work 100 hours month-No over time, because that's 160 hours in 2 calendar months. With 6/2 schedule you will fly 159.9 hours in 6 weeks. You will have God awful all night china turn arounds 3 -4 times per month. You will never ever get more then 7 days off in a month. and they have no definition of what a day off is ( even though u are required to have 7 per month).No one knows what a day off is here. they told me that I had day off when My report was at 00:30!!!! There are no rules. Schedules always change its about the worst contract I have had ( out of 11 companys I have worked for on contract). They treat foreigners just as bad as they Treat each other. To summarize. You will hate it, and when You leave they will try and charge you money for every sick day or day off they said you owe them. Basic a fu..^*¥ed up company that gets worse every month. I am so happy not to work there any more. thats just Me. You might enjoy the abuse. Good Luck! |
I agree with most of the things but why did you stay for 4 years if you didn’t like it from beginning??? All in all, very ****ty company PARC contract is crap but also beacuse it’s a crap, you can avoid all penalties if you leave earlier. Just consulting a lawyer, you can find that they don’t have any legal basis for most of the things they ask for. Also, you signed 7 days off per month, so why would you expect more? Days off were defined. If it’s not clear in OM, you should consult CAAV flight time limitations document. It was based on UK CAP, so pretty detailed and good (maybe that changed but 2 years ago it was still in force). And nobody can force you to fly above the limits or to use your discretion if you don’t want to do it. They can try, but as a captain you can and should decline it Also, I believe that your 19h duty was with augmented crew, so it’s little bit more complicated |
Originally Posted by Cak
(Post 10144765)
... nobody can force you to fly above the limits or to use your discretion if you don’t want to do it. They can try, but as a captain you can and should decline it In reference to your “augmented Crew”: where is it allowed on the Narrow body to do so? Your third-world-country business class seat in the A321is NOT approved by the CAAV as an apropriate rest place. It is neither isolated nor adequate. I personally brought this subject up with my Broker, and after months being ignored I sent an email to the fleet manager himself. Same resonse as my broker! None You want to discuss legality of a communist led company owned by a communist country? Legality is the least of their worries; we are defined mercenaries, we might as well break the rules for THEM, because following SOP’s strictly at VNA requieres absolute flexibility... Everyone talks about it, everyone here knows it, and even my own layer told me, the reenforced crew procedure at VNA is both illegal AND unsafe, but it makes them rich, Expats are expendable, so no one cares about your legality here, unless they get another event, and then the Expat has to go... |
Missing VNA threads? I can still see this?
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Originally Posted by bigbird
(Post 10180511)
Missing VNA threads? I can still see this?
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