Good morning everyone, i have had the chance to read thru ALL of the threads here, and i must say very helpful info thru so many pages.
As the time has come, for me to venture into the unknown, and basically look to spend some more time closer to my wife home in asia, i am far too old for the uncertainty of china. I.e. medicals or unfairness atleast dispalyed some years ago.

Having said that im am current and rated on the airbus, looking for any guidance as to how VNA roster patterns look on the 6 weeks on ? You can post on public or p.m. if you wish.

Just curious doesn't VNA have a huge fleet order already? I believe i read they are looking to atleast double in size, or is that just smoke and mirrors? Seriously considering to join 😰😰 Is it only first officers leaving or Captains as well?

My friend, i can tell you all you want. To start, joining VNA as Captain is not a good idea, so you can imagine as FO, is even worse. The A350 fleet is good, but will be around 1-2 more years that the expat FO will be fired again. The growing of the fleet will be stopped ( they will receive just 2 more aircraft this year and no more A350 for VNA ), and when this happens, the A350 fleet, even 787 fleet will be filled with local guys, pushing out all expat. That's the plan of the comoany. The thing is that now they have a huge hole that they need to cover, and the agencies are just.... I will not say the word... So when the expat coming now save their ass... And when they don't need you anymore, they will not care about your life or whatever, you will receive 60 days notice and goodbye. Knowing this company, i could say that the ONLY one reason to come, is if you have a contract where "at least" they remove the part of the 60 days notice, and some compensation in case of being fired before the agreed time signed on the contract. If not, better stay away. You don't know when, but will happen, you can't feel safe here bro. My recommendation, stay away. I just left the company almost one year ago, and after that, i was wondering... What the hell i was doing there the last 15 years... Finally, if you decide to come, more as an FO, doesn't matter which fleet, you take the risk to have a serious problem in your career, more with A350, because will be not easy to find a job with this TR when they fire you.https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....a7e94ce04.jpeg

Just one example of what they were managing. To fire expat makes them so happy, i tell you. This info is updated continuosly. The last info i had was last month, when they expect to cut up to 250 Captains and 0 FO's expat by 2020. So, on your own risk guys, don't believe the agencies!!!!

15 years is as long as i have been here.

there were not that many ex pats here then, and i dont know you.

Kimono, previously you stated that in 2018, after that 2020, now 2023? You’re such a reliable source! If you’re still flying in VNA, what are you doing there? all you do is complain. If you’re not flying in VNA anymore, why all the complaints? let it go and get a life man! There are plenty of pilots who actually enjoy flying in VNA, if it wasn’t because of the money, I would probably still be there. You are so blinded by your negativity that you can’t see the bright side and just to remind you, there is no perfect job out there, or is there?

There may indeed have been a plan to reduce expat numbers, before VJ and Bamboo started plundering all the local pilots, but the fact is that right now the Vietnamese captains and high time FOs are leaving faster than they can upgrade them. They can’t get more locals, so their option is either to hire more expats, or park aircraft.

A330 was a special case because the fleet was getting finished. We (the FOs) were all offered the A350 RHS but most of us chose not to take it, because we had offers from several other companies to go and take quick commands elsewhere.

There are certainly issues of concern here, but job security isn’t one of them, for anybody except Kimono anyway ��

Fancy low pay, mels galore, asshole connected FOs low job security with no back up from your management, welcome yo join VNA!!!

You guys keep cracking me up (making me laugh in American English). You are looking for job security in the airline industry ? Ever considered becoming a Doctor, policeman or a lawyer ? Here is job security for you.

For those new to the contract world or living on Planet Delusional like Kimono:
- you are on loan by an agency. You are NOT working for THE airline.
- as a contractor you may be lucky to upgrade or change fleets as it has happened at VNA in the past, but you cannot expect it.
- you are looking for same treatment as the loclas: stay in your coutry and be a part of the locals.
- the length of your contract is worthless. The contract can be terminated from BOTH sides within a written time frame. This also gives you as pilot a way out, incase you are not happy where you are.
- you are being paid to fly an airplane from A to B and not to get involved in company planning and politics. This is THEIR company, your company is your agent.
- in most cases your contract will be honored and you will get paid on time for the services you provide. This is it.

Like many airlines, VNA is facing massive challenges. I was there many years.
Pros: Locals are mostly very nice, friendly and welcoming. They are a pleasure to work with. Pay is on time. Plenty new birds to fly and Vietnam is simply awsome and offers a very laid back life style. Despite the crazy traffic.
Cons: Substandard contract. No pay raise in almost 10 years, while inflation is through the roof. If you bring your family, you will be paycheck to paycheck. Overcrowded ATC environment and diminishing standards on flight deck, making the operation very challenging and extremely stressful.

Again, if you are looking for job security, consider becoming a firefighter 😜.

Yours and all the other contracts had the 60 termination clause which in some cases the company opted to use. This is within their right, it’s brutal, it’s aviation business and it sucks, but it is legal. Why is it so hard to understand ?
When I left VNA I actually used the 60 day clause myself; as I said, this can be beneficial for both sides. There are expats who spent 20+ years in VNA and plenty with 10+. A rather unusual stat in the contract world.
They may have not fulfilled your expectations, but calling people of other nationality and race “monkeys” as you do in almost all of your posts makes me suspect, that this is the attitude and disrespect you must have shown the locals while being in Vietnam, so perhaps they had all the reason to.

Could you please elaborate a little bit on this? Most agencies are offering 10,8k for a 6x2 roster, is this not enough in Vietnam?
Sorry if this has been answered before, I couldn’t find anything recent about this.

It all depends on your status. Are you single, married, kids, etc... Maybe if you’re a bit more specific on your plans I can have an idea...

PM me, I will give you a few numbers to work with. If you are single or there by yourself, it’s ok money. With a family (children in international schools) think twice.

Kimono, a good advestisement for anger managament classes.

seriosly get some help. You cant be so angry and still be in the cockpit.

As far as job security? Over 14 years for me. New 5 year contract and i am not expecting to be terminated during it. As always keeping an eye on the situation and will leave before i am pushed, and wont be the last to turn the lights out.

but for now, i dont see any issues for my next five years.

The renumeration is too low now, so hoping something may be done. I am getting too many offers of more money to ignore.

If you are a contract expat FO then you are always at risk.

Qaualiry, International Schooling prices are
going through the roof; especially in Hanoi and Da Nang; at the UN Intl. you will pay almost US$2k per kid; add to that a quality home somewhere nice, your 10.8 will start disappearing as quickly as you see it coming in...

There has been expected pay increase since 2007 and its never happened, as long as they can get people then nothing will change. Theres never a shortage of desperate guys waiting to join just round the corner.

Good evening everyone, may i ask which agency is the best suited for work out there? FCI and Rishworth both seem to have contracts however, i was told of a third but cannot seem to find it? Does one have to use an agency or can one simply apply directly? Upon reading all the posts on here the last one regarding the interview process was some 4 yours ago. Is there any “new” changes to prepare for i.e. written test and sim for the airbus fleets? I my self am in my mid 50’s airbus rated. I was told to use ace the pilot interview, is this sufficient to study? Smooth flights to you all, hope that you all get the payrise sonner rather than later.

First rule of the contract pilot. You are only as good as your last pay check.

thats the point.

Yes, specially with VNA

It’s simple, if you’re don’t want to deal with different mentalities and ways you stay at your local LCC and do 4 legs every day for 30 years (unless your country offers a good legacy and you’re good/lucky enough to get in).

IF NOT, then you enjoy different experiences throughout your career that even 20 years ago would be unthinkable, and accept the this comes with some downsides and risks.

Up to you.

i disagree. No more than anywhere else. The point of being a contract pilot is you are only here until the host has enough local guys to replace you. Then you get a contract somewhere else.

i have been here nearly 15 years. 5 years longer than i expected. And i expect to be here at least another 5 years if i want to be. I may look to move if no salary increase comes along sson. But i dont see them replacing all the expats in the next 5 years, maybe more.

as a contractor, you are still a temporary post holder though. Take it or leave it. Any downturn, we will be the first out the door..

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....da06c5c81.jpeg
Look, i agree with all that you said, they can fire you whenever they want, is their company, ok. The point is that they did it already last year, firing with 60 days notice all expat FO's, and why? Because they had a business with Mr Patella who was bringing expat cadets, these guys paid 100.000 USD to VNA for the training ( one of these cadets told me personally ) without salary, just an apartment in Royal City for the first year. If they quit before 5 years, they loose the money. Of course, all of them knew that was just an investment and they will loose the money, and VNA also. So, 1 million USD per 10 expat cadets, such an amazing business, plus no salary, much cheaper than a proffesional SFO. So this is how VNA works in general. Yesterday was good, today so so, but tomorrow will be not better. I have been there 15 years also, and around one year ago i left VNA, and yes, maybe you know me, but of course i will not reveal who am i. The idea is ro warn all other colleagues about VNA, specially SFO, because now they are looking for A350 FO's. Sorry, but you can't say they will be safe here. With the A350 TR, if they give you the 60 days notice, tell me where will you find a new job. So that's why, don't believe the agencies, there is not any kind of upgrade apportunity, unless you know the right person to pass him/her 25.000 usd under the table. So, if you are flying A350 in some other company and your position is at least stable, don't risk that stability, soon or later you will value that the most. And just in case somebody forgot, here are the numbers again. Explain that pale!!

any fo contract is fraught with danger. I think some of the guys looking at the fo 350 are also looking at a 320 command in the future. In any event i am sure they can make their own mind up.

Yes, any FO contract is dangerous, but in VNA is more than anywhere else. Remmeber, they fired all of them last year. And about the command upgrade on A320, as long as they could bring indians and russian pilots, no upgrade for expat FO's in VNA. Only a few years ago they gave upgrade to some FO's, but that will not happen again with all new local cadets and all local FO's waiting for their chance for the left seat. Lets be realistic and don't give hope when there are not. I could tell you a few stories about some SFO who were fired because they didn't pay the 20-25 grand under the table, and some others who paid and then they fail them
in the sim for some ridiculous situations, like the subjetive CRM.