why am i not surprised by drug abuse and all that crap happening in the local flying schools?MAS cadets can only be selected under the circumstances as below:1.Mesti Ada Saudara,their father is a captain or some big-shot manager in the company.2.It's a WHOLE LOT EASIER if you're a bumiputra. 3.It doesn't matter if you only score a despicable A in your SPM,but if you kowtow to me and show that you can adapt to our culture of kowtow-ing i might consider you.4.you're genuinely good and EXTREMELY lucky.

:ok:cheers all!

Malaysiacadet,Kentot B,

The problem is not the exam method or the patok. It is the problem with the younger generation that is not willing to put in the hard work to get themselves up to the mark,so they rely on patok tactic. Also,this attitude of condeming the process which you have yet to experience has just proven your lack of maturity
in the aviation industry. This company had made hundreds of people from school boys to widebody captains of the world most modern jetliners in less than 15 years. MAS trained WB cockpit crew for some other airlines like Jetstar,Jet airways,even Qantas.MAS pilots are being accepted in major airlines like KAL,EK,EY,some B737 captains are offered B777 command.Are we not any good? The huge number of people obtaining their ATPL in the 80s is because there were then so many people sitting for it as the company expand.Do you know how little people sit for their ATPL in the 60 or 70s?

The younger generation like Malaysiacadet will find entry into the airline especially hard as you had set your mind condeming the process.Learn to fly safely before you even think of landing yourself an airline job,be it as a second officer or captain.

i'm not a mas cadet but during my training days in melaka skool (u know which one) some of MAS cadet bringing in toyol during exam...in various shape. I'm not disputing their quality but that's life. Time changes. You have to adapt to pass. You have to sacrifice to pass. me too did some mug up..and my best friend, a MAS cadet always lend his toyol to me, hence the case of flying papers of toyol during exam is a norm. Just dont get yourself caught.

dont worry, often people who bring in the toyol always ended up in the bottom of honor list in the batch. Most of the top cadets worked up their way during training and exams and they deserved it. Although i did admit i look at the toyol during exam, it never helped me much...because the note is not prepared by me so i dont really know how to use it. The most important thing is the flying part where we know, no toyols even hantus cant help us....

FYI toyol is the term given to small and hidden sheet of formulas smuggled into the exam..if you disputing the quality of the pembela toyol, they are now flying the narrow body birds of MAS, Air Asia etc. Seems everything okay so far...

Gentlemen,
I agree with "Flightleader" on the "generation" factor.
I see the quality of the rookies. Very diverse, I must say.
I wasn't much better when I was there as well.
Parties, last minute cramming, peeping ......he! he! toyols....sign language...the first smokes..hangovers....getting caught.......the apology....the pact....regret.. realisation......growth! ( goes to show how creative and resourceful you realise you can be when you need to be...ha ha ha ....genesis of a great pilot )
The kind of pilot/student you are at 200 hours does not in any way determine what kind of airline pilot you become.
The training enviroment in MAS is "ALIVE".
This is where boys become men. If they are lagging and scraping the bottom when they get online.........they eventually catch up and many become real top pilots in time.
Some of the "straight A's" straight everything guys who top the class at training school stop growing, have very few screw ups and dont know what they missed.
My IPs whacked the life, soul and spirit out of me when I was that " attitude problem " cadet. Today they are my best friends!
There is a saying:
Its your ATTITUDE and not your APTITUDE that determines your ALTITUDE.
When you get into a good airline with a strong legacy, unless you are really whacko! you should do alright.
Come on guys! Lets go out there and enjoy the flying.

Hydraulics pipe leaking, soon complete failure
"Captain, WE're GOING TO DIE!!! I bought "Toyols" for ENGINE Failure, but didn't bring any for hydraulics failure":eek::eek::eek::eek: Even better if he was the CAPTAIN. Imagine him telling the Co-pilot, I Don't Know What to DO!!!!!

ha ha ha .

I get your point malaysiacadet. cheers.

Toyol or not toyol...
 

Where ever they're right now it doesn't matter as long as they can motivate themselves to become a genuine good pilot, my self took my CPL at 'kampong' flying school just south of CKG but by joining a top airlines such as MAS or others is like taking a small step for a bigger opportunities in the future. I see the problem with the fresh graduate pilots they like taking a short cut by letting the automation fly the a/c n never make their own calculation. N that is scary...but some of them are really willing to learn n becoming a good pilot, so with toyol or not it is up to them to decide.
hellboy

Maybe there is something Kentot said that touched some raw nerves. I remembered some very senior skippers even some in the previous flight operations management predicted that quite a few senior FOs were going to be career FOs. Names like fonz, sunny boy, rabbit oh oh etc were pandied around. Apparently these would be career FOs sat for their ATPL exams for donkey times in the 70s and 80s but " lengkup ed ". But by miracles of miracles when the exam format changed in the late 80s, they all passed comfortably in one shot. Wow!

Right, Kentot has got some people, well I would say a lot of people squirming! Rabbit oh! Well so loud, must have the highest P2 hours on record besides oh my ghosh!

Didn't someone intimated somewhere that some old timers like the sir kondehless bai up in Soeul also tipu in cohoots with jpa fellas in the 70's for their equally kopi O lesen. So it it's not only the late 80s or 90s when we have dodgy 7 ups.

Jaguh, Wira, Pendekar etc you guys must have joined MAS in the early and mid 80s. If you had sat for, and honestly passed the old ATPL exams with 7up, kudos to you. Your time spent must really be worthwhile as you know where you stand. In the 70's, there was a dark period where some pariahs dishonoured Malaysian aviation with their tipu ways. There were some whispers of that turbanless nasty, camel and some other chowkia pilots involved.

Gee I wish I was born a lot earlier then!
I did the objective "kacang putih"/ "sap sap soi" ATPL la. 7up also. ( yes it was pretty easy )
Would have loved to do the old method ATPL and come out 7 up there as well, but what to do.......! sudah buat lo...!
Don't be so hard on all the "career FO's la" Bunny was a top Captain la.( Good friend also la) You guys won't know..... you are too senior to have been his FO' . (politics and personals aside)
At least they 7 up'ed the easy one. There are some who lingkup even this.
My personal experience is that " exam scores " though important, pale in comparison to some other "ingredients" that make a "good skipper".

Yeah.....heard about that. What a shame. More info please gents.

Beg to differ but the old rabbit was a basket case in the higher science and art of aviation. However he is ever the populist, seeking popularity and acceptance rather than substance.
Wooby has some good advice so despite bahkut's and paishinel's misgivings, there is always hope! What can be damaging is the ( sorry I have to paraphrase the toady pigme here! ) " herd mentality ".

F/Os tend to hang onto every drivel that come out of these basket cases as they tend to be very loud. They drop names of the former bosses to impress besides coming out with great stories best left to inside crew lounges after several beers. So i can see how the bunny, sunny, nikki nor and their ilk get admirers amongst the young uns. Right Raj, real populist but when **** hits the fan it's exciting watching the white knuckles and squeaky voices!

Ha ha, I remember sunny's diversion to batam I believe and also the bunny's diversion from JB. Very squeaky voices over the RT; no more the macho deep loud yakity yak!

You guys should seen the bunny's face when Capt Sekali beat him to the ALTP. Furthermore they had to fly in the same cockpit!

While some of you sit around laughing at these 'carreer FOs', where some happened to past their ATPL in the new exam format,may I ask you that who would you prefer on your right hand seat?The freshy FOs these days came on the WB with minimum 737 experience whom happened to came out of flying schools with ATPL or these so called 'career FOs' who sat for the old format ATPL many times? Having passed the exam be it old or new format only gave them the licence. To be a real commander,one has to learn,build and survive it.Like B'ham said,it is alive. Having said that, it is ironic that jumbo captain had passed the old format ATPL,flown the jumbo for decades and yet sculptured the London runway with a jumbo's bottom,has he not learn enough or are we all just human here??
Everyone has his way of life,we should respect that.Making fun of others from the top(worse still from outside the circle) would be highly inappropriate.I would suggest to those having too much free time to look into continue contribution to the aviation industry in Malaysia.Instead of counting your ever
reducing EPF withdrawer at 60,why not look into putting some effort into ground/simulator instructing,I bet your experience would benefit the younger generations.
This one for those Rabbit shooter: The old rabbit is gonna be the 1st Malaysian to be rated on the 787 and will be conducting training,now that is something we should all be happy about!:D:D

Career FO
 

The point here is the "career FO's" had problems passing exams. ie their knowledge is insufficient to be commanders. Who would I have them on the right hand seat. Makes no difference.

Passing your ATPL old way or new way, is not a good indication of whether you have enough knowledge to be a commander. Its more of how much effort you put into passing the exams.

I still laugh about Sunny.....we all still do.

Yes some had a smirk on their face when they heard about the misadventures if Nikki.

Lets leave it at that la.....poking fun at a few fellas who took an awfully long time to get their ATPL. Ok la call them "lembab" la if you want.

On the other hand, one must also remember and acknowledge that some of the " sharper " 7 ups and sprites are absolutely hopeless pilots.

Some people get their ATPL early, get their command early, join management so early on their first command. Sit in the office as they move up........never actually realising that they stopped learning a couple of decades ago.

:ugh:

Well I guess the blokes are not poking fun, but they are just cheesed off that when these " lembab " guys passed the kacang putih ATPL they started to demand immediate respect and god like status. They behaved as if they had been wronged in the past and coleagues as well as management must atone for the slight they perceived that had been heaped onto them. To cover up for whatever inadequacies they perceived they had, they came up with puerile stories and anecdotes to lauch themselves into the big league.

Somewhere over here in the sandpit, we heard some interesting stories about the old rabbit from the Korean F/Os in EY during his stint in Alteon Korea. Well guess he has moved on to " greater ' heights. Good for him.
Taufu is right, nobody begrudge their passing the " easier ' ATPL; well all the newer skippers had the easier one. However it gets a little tiring having to listen to the name dropping, concocted heroics etc.
As for saffy avian's ass scrape in LHR; well we all know about his short fuse and knee jerk ways. Nothing to do with ATPL, airmanship or piloting skills...just plain blown fuse.

Taufupok.... How well remembered. The "lembab" fellas after passing the kacang puteh exam late, demanded direct B747 command. And then worked their pants off breaking all rules to get the required hours on the B737. Sigh !

Ikan, very correct. Some had standing orders for crewing to call them for flights as much as possible and some even had deals with crewing boys to swap over longer flights for them to collect more hours for direct 744. Corruption again!

Not Surprise!
 

That's not corruption, it's Malaysia Boleh!!! This sweet deals with crewing has been going for years, with pilots and cabin crew dept.
No surprise there.:hmm:

Never Change sweet deals
 

The crewing department was a highly corrupt gang working to please guys who bought sweets and cigarettes for them. Saw with my own eyes. Fonze, Niki, Rabbit, and many more.
The bunch of ****s still cant even answer the phone properly. Highly inefficient and down right bodoh.

dear wooblah, I have to disagree with you about MAPA as Malay Airline Pilots Association. MAPA leaders came from different race as well. Chinese, Indian and Malay. Infact the longest serving MAPA President was a Chinese guy, my good friend LEG ( not kaki). I can mention a few more non malay leaders and excos in MAPA that have lead since inception. We had great leader and not so "great", malay or otherwise. We had those who gave up first class travel for first officer and those who gave up 10 days of annual leave a year and those who allowed 150% bond on conversion training.

Now, about M of U. It is a binding document between the company and the pilots. It is the contractual obligation between employer and employees. You can call it any name but for as long as it is an agreement, it's still binding. It is the terms and conditions of employment which was there since formation of MAS. May be the interpretation of the M of U is in question. Then bring it to the court to decide.

10 days leave and 1st Class
 

I remembered the day Whose Lan went round canvassing the pilots to accept the 10 days leave in return to get the back pay that was due. And many stupid pilots went to the AGM and voted for the resolution or the majority of the stupid pilots didn't care what the MOU was. They just wanted to get the money. Now suffer all the pilots. Whose Lan and Pigmy got promotions.I can only sit back and see the agony on the present pilots faces. The executive enjoy 18 days of public holidays and 104 days of week ends and 30 days leave.. What do pilots get. 30 days and 8 days per month = 8 x 12 = 96 days ..and NO public holiday or weekends. Just as well I left. Ha Ha

I would say it's 11 months X 8 = 88 days. Pls take note that if one take leave for the month, the full 8 days off will not be yours, ie. if you have 2 weeks annual leave in a month won't entitle you 22 non working days. One must understand that 42 days leave is equivalent to 30 days (2 days off in a week). Unlike other graded staff, they can be on non working days for 9 days but recorded as 5 days annual leave taken (monday to friday).

segajet
 

Very sorry to hear about the state of affairs at MAS. I did a short spell as an expat captain on B737 at Subang in the early 90's, and have many great memories of screaming around PJ on two wheels in the crew bus and wonderful flying and nightstops in Malaysia. At the time flight ops compared very favourably with any company worldwide, and the copilots I flew with were keen, competent and very friendly and welcoming. MAS had an advantage over companies like SIA, in having a fleet of Fokkers,Twotters and 737's, on which the new lads could cut their teeth and hone their flying skills, before moving onto widebodies. Even then I felt that the pilots were let down by all the other departments, like HR and commercial, who were well below world standard.
Just before I left the company a new DFO was appointed, with connections to management, and the rot seemed to be setting in at MAS. A "night of the long knives" followed with senior management having to resign and then apply for their old jobs back. Political cleansing on a small scale.
If I have learnt anything in my 30 plus years in flying, it is that airlines must run on meritocrasy, and that people in management and training should be above average pilots. Political promotions lead to a break down in trust and respect. I can assure you that SE Asia does not have a monopoly on fast track promotions. A senior union position often leads to a management job in companies worldwide.
I hope that MAS turns it around and becomes successful. With a more balanced management and a change of mindset, the skies the limit.

hi segajet, most of the copilots you probably flew with during early 90s left the company and are now successful else where. Better to stay outside and watch the rot rather than be in it...:)

Segajet, many thanks for the good words. Welcome sight to see former expats with fond memories. Met with a former Ozzie now with KAL, he was so scathing about how bad he is treated in kimchi land compared to how nice we guys were to him! Cheers!

Yo Tiger; when Leg was Mapa prez, things were chugging along fine until his vice prez made deals behind his back. Poor fella got caught up with some some devilish ideas concotted by his not so honourable deputy and things went downhill. Then came " magic " and the 1.5 +15 fiasco. I couldn't believe it that MAS pilots could be so dumb to have voted for it. Later Leg's former vice sign away f/o's travel privileges and join the management to set up the audit empire. Abuses of Mapa & management screwing both pilots and haemoraghing the company gave the camel enough ammunition to mount the bloody coup. I personally saw leg's former deputy coaching pigmy how to deal with the " herd " when pigmy took over Mapa. So the non Melayus had their own devils...hey 001 was an ex Mapa sec.:{:{

Hi, how about making 001 and the pariah creep honorary melayus. 001 sure behaves like one and the pariah licks royal asses and wear latuk songkok rather than a turban!:yuk:

Raj, the Malay race cannot accept such human trash! The songkok certainly will not fit into the bloated pariah heads.

Hi Malaysian pilots, over here in India we heard some unsavoury anecdotes about a certain con man of Punjabi extract giving us Khalsa a bad name. He was dishonourably driven out of Mumbai some 8 to 9 years ago and I believe he is known in Korea as g-string. Is this the guy you guys alluded to? Was he really your union president? Ten years back we used to hear of claims that he is a royal pilot who flew your king around...was that all true? A lot of guys were taken in by his claims though a few had reservations about such characters. If he had been your union president I am sure sorry for you guys. Cheer up, learn from your boo boos!

ha ha ..LOL...g-string, how apt! Ya Akali Dal you got it right! Not union boss but he was MAPA ( Malaysian Airlines Pilots Association ) president. Screwed pilots with underhanded deals with management to get Audit Dept deputy boss job whilst maintaining post as MAPA prez. Signed away copilot's travel privileges without consulting other EXCO members, misused audit dept position for personal gains and junkets; then conned Dr Con in conjunction with another rat rol-and to be seconded to jet; then double dipping as alleged. A g-string indeed! The guys in kimchi land must really know more than we do to come up with that!

segajet
 

You can't blame people for voting with their feet, and I guess the huge expansion in the Gulf has caused a massive drain on MAS.It is always sad to see talent leaving the country.
There is so much potential in Malaysia for huge profits that it would be tragic if things couldn't be turned around at MAS.
Thanks for some great memories and good luck for the future.

Akali Dal
 

Shed some lite on g-string's fling with bollywood

Hi Tiger,

I think you will find that a MoU is not a contract at all and cannot be up held in a court of law. :ugh:

G-string ha ah ha ha ah Thats a bloody good one, can just picture the crossdressing pr!ck in a black lace stringer up his crack. How does he continue to keep his dirty little hands in the industry!!!!!