Deterioration of KAL Contract
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Deterioration of KAL Contract
Is it true that commuting now only in Economy, as it was business/first before Covid?
Is it true that locals get huge payrise and foreigners dont?
Is it true that KAL screws foreign crews with flight requests now? (I.e. request only every 3 month and home base requests arw nor possible anymore?!)
If that is true... seems to be the end if a formerly nice commuting contract....
Is it true that locals get huge payrise and foreigners dont?
Is it true that KAL screws foreign crews with flight requests now? (I.e. request only every 3 month and home base requests arw nor possible anymore?!)
If that is true... seems to be the end if a formerly nice commuting contract....
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If these are contractual items and they have arbitrarily taken them away then it’s not just deterioration, it’s a violation.
Did they say why? You would think a salary review or bonus would be coming up with the sacrifices the foreign pilots have made.
Is this a permanent change? If they are trying to recruit foreigners for the 380 this definitely won’t help their cause.
I wouldn’t bet the agencies are going to step in and do anything about it.
Did they say why? You would think a salary review or bonus would be coming up with the sacrifices the foreign pilots have made.
Is this a permanent change? If they are trying to recruit foreigners for the 380 this definitely won’t help their cause.
I wouldn’t bet the agencies are going to step in and do anything about it.
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TL,
100% true. What the agencies are putting forward and what is happening on the ground in Seoul is completely different.
This is why I started the thread below, but it got hijacked by guys wanting to chat about the pilot shortage.
The reality is KAL doesn’t respect the foreigners anymore. They are still going against the contract when it suits them. They speak a big game but do nothing to resolve or care about our state of being.
Warning - all of you thinking about KAL, you come here knowing it’s not going well and they can’t be trusted anymore. We’ve become the next China.
100% true. What the agencies are putting forward and what is happening on the ground in Seoul is completely different.
This is why I started the thread below, but it got hijacked by guys wanting to chat about the pilot shortage.
The reality is KAL doesn’t respect the foreigners anymore. They are still going against the contract when it suits them. They speak a big game but do nothing to resolve or care about our state of being.
Warning - all of you thinking about KAL, you come here knowing it’s not going well and they can’t be trusted anymore. We’ve become the next China.
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Essentially, this is what’s going on at KAL these days.
All the foreigners were sent home without pay in March 2020. A select few, out of seniority were brought back in two waves, after many months or years. Now they’re offering all to return, even the 380 guys that they cut off at the knees. Some will come, some won’t. Lots won’t. And talking to many, it sounds like the ME guys and others, have zero interest due to the lack of security, communication and honesty from KAL.
Now, the Koreans got a big bonus this year. They also recently got a decent pay raise. Expats? Nada, nothing. Who’s made the bigger sacrifice? The Koreans were complaining that some guys returned as they worked one month on, two off for 100% and 2/3 pay respectively. What did most the expats do? 0% pay for most of the pandemic.
The reality is they need us here. Flight ops needs different thinking (actual thinking) to seep in and improve their outdated operation.
Prime example, the latest email that said “we’re seeing an unprecedented or extreme rise in bookings for summer!”, so communing home and back will be in economy. WOW, who knew that there would be a spring back effect after people being pinned down for a couple of years???? Uh, yeah, anyone WITH A BRAIN!
They are going to be chronically short for the nexts few years. They just don’t have the training capacity, nor the brainpower to think their way out of this one. Just sit back and watch, it’s going to get interesting. Good luck to those involved!
All the foreigners were sent home without pay in March 2020. A select few, out of seniority were brought back in two waves, after many months or years. Now they’re offering all to return, even the 380 guys that they cut off at the knees. Some will come, some won’t. Lots won’t. And talking to many, it sounds like the ME guys and others, have zero interest due to the lack of security, communication and honesty from KAL.
Now, the Koreans got a big bonus this year. They also recently got a decent pay raise. Expats? Nada, nothing. Who’s made the bigger sacrifice? The Koreans were complaining that some guys returned as they worked one month on, two off for 100% and 2/3 pay respectively. What did most the expats do? 0% pay for most of the pandemic.
The reality is they need us here. Flight ops needs different thinking (actual thinking) to seep in and improve their outdated operation.
Prime example, the latest email that said “we’re seeing an unprecedented or extreme rise in bookings for summer!”, so communing home and back will be in economy. WOW, who knew that there would be a spring back effect after people being pinned down for a couple of years???? Uh, yeah, anyone WITH A BRAIN!
They are going to be chronically short for the nexts few years. They just don’t have the training capacity, nor the brainpower to think their way out of this one. Just sit back and watch, it’s going to get interesting. Good luck to those involved!
Only half a speed-brake
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First of all, the salary for local isnt going to increase that much. Only based in basic salary. U dont even know what they have got in details. Secondly, they had not needed to higher expats in decade but they have kept it because they want to take advantage of expats. And here we are, we r in this kinda era.. i wonder how long u have worked for the company but u should know things objectively before u complain. Me also an expat, all over the world has same issue for last 3 years and many of my colleague has been in even worse condition than what u r saying here now. U had chose to be an expat then u should be ready to take those ****s. Meanwhile KE is still looking rational and objective. Korea never fallen to situation of lacking of pilots. They utilized expats because it is easy to control and sack.. that’s it. And that is the expat’s life... If you don’t like just go to ME for permanent contract. To me i do still love to go to KE.. contract isnt everything in that country. If u have lived there and know how it works. If u really think it is not right, go and do legal action, very solid in Korea. Otherwise stop whinging.
so basically you are saying as an expat i should take anything the company does to me and accept it and be grateful.
With people like you in the expat pilot community now, i can’t wait ti retire
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Originally Posted by blazedsign View Post
First of all, the salary for local isnt going to increase that much. Only based in basic salary. U dont even know what they have got in details. Secondly, they had not needed to higher expats in decade but they have kept it because they want to take advantage of expats. And here we are, we r in this kinda era.. i wonder how long u have worked for the company but u should know things objectively before u complain. Me also an expat, all over the world has same issue for last 3 years and many of my colleague has been in even worse condition than what u r saying here now. U had chose to be an expat then u should be ready to take those ****s. Meanwhile KE is still looking rational and objective. Korea never fallen to situation of lacking of pilots. They utilized expats because it is easy to control and sack.. that’s it. And that is the expat’s life... If you don’t like just go to ME for permanent contract. To me i do still love to go to KE.. contract isnt everything in that country. If u have lived there and know how it works. If u really think it is not right, go and do legal action, very solid in Korea. Otherwise stop whinging
And here we go. Eventually one of the guys that went to china and went down in blazing flames would show up here, if only momentarily. The issues are many, but mainly the perpetual racist treatment of expats at KAL. We’re not valued even though there was one day that we were needed. Legally and operationally. Maybe we’re not legally needed now, but if you’ve seen ops and the way things are going here, we might soon be required again.
If you want a better workplace for yourself and your fellow pilots, you might want to rethink your attitude. You sir, are no expat!
First of all, the salary for local isnt going to increase that much. Only based in basic salary. U dont even know what they have got in details. Secondly, they had not needed to higher expats in decade but they have kept it because they want to take advantage of expats. And here we are, we r in this kinda era.. i wonder how long u have worked for the company but u should know things objectively before u complain. Me also an expat, all over the world has same issue for last 3 years and many of my colleague has been in even worse condition than what u r saying here now. U had chose to be an expat then u should be ready to take those ****s. Meanwhile KE is still looking rational and objective. Korea never fallen to situation of lacking of pilots. They utilized expats because it is easy to control and sack.. that’s it. And that is the expat’s life... If you don’t like just go to ME for permanent contract. To me i do still love to go to KE.. contract isnt everything in that country. If u have lived there and know how it works. If u really think it is not right, go and do legal action, very solid in Korea. Otherwise stop whinging
And here we go. Eventually one of the guys that went to china and went down in blazing flames would show up here, if only momentarily. The issues are many, but mainly the perpetual racist treatment of expats at KAL. We’re not valued even though there was one day that we were needed. Legally and operationally. Maybe we’re not legally needed now, but if you’ve seen ops and the way things are going here, we might soon be required again.
If you want a better workplace for yourself and your fellow pilots, you might want to rethink your attitude. You sir, are no expat!
Only half a speed-brake
No, dear sir. He tries to understand and summarise your opinion, to which you are entirely entitled, and then expresses his feelings of not wishing to be on that team. Shame you could not pick that correctly by yourself.
For all the immigrant work we do, it is essential the contract terms are observed lest we all get crushed. Take a trip to Doha and see the guys building the World Cup stadiums, we play the same sport, expat is just a fancy name.
Now, colleagues who will do the same work for less is just market forces and personal choice - fair. On the other hand and very different, people who accept the masters avoiding their lawful responsibility are cancer. Why the strong word? It is accurate, everyone else need to adjust downwards the same to keep food on table immediately. Thereafter, the company will never respect the signed word once they know they can get away with it, and the whole body is lost.
To keep the glass half-full: you are probably a troll, although a badly trained one.
For all the immigrant work we do, it is essential the contract terms are observed lest we all get crushed. Take a trip to Doha and see the guys building the World Cup stadiums, we play the same sport, expat is just a fancy name.
Now, colleagues who will do the same work for less is just market forces and personal choice - fair. On the other hand and very different, people who accept the masters avoiding their lawful responsibility are cancer. Why the strong word? It is accurate, everyone else need to adjust downwards the same to keep food on table immediately. Thereafter, the company will never respect the signed word once they know they can get away with it, and the whole body is lost.
To keep the glass half-full: you are probably a troll, although a badly trained one.
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Should be interesting to see what MOLIT has to say about it.
Since we are on the crew GD and traveling in uniform as crew, then technically commuting falls under MOLIT regulation.
Maybe an email to everyone’s group manager for clarification would be a good start.
Since we are on the crew GD and traveling in uniform as crew, then technically commuting falls under MOLIT regulation.
Maybe an email to everyone’s group manager for clarification would be a good start.
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Presently we aren’t commuting. That starts in August.
But…….all the communication with the company has them telling us to expect economy “as per the contract.” Their interpretation is that returning to work we are “returning to rest” therefore, can fly economy both ways and operate a duty flight the next morning while feeling like complete ****e.
This is the biggest issue with this, the sliding or interpretation of the contract that will be make permanent. Yes, the promises are huge that it’s only temporary, but we all know how these things go once they become a solution to a problem. Sad days for what was once one of the best commuting jobs.
But…….all the communication with the company has them telling us to expect economy “as per the contract.” Their interpretation is that returning to work we are “returning to rest” therefore, can fly economy both ways and operate a duty flight the next morning while feeling like complete ****e.
This is the biggest issue with this, the sliding or interpretation of the contract that will be make permanent. Yes, the promises are huge that it’s only temporary, but we all know how these things go once they become a solution to a problem. Sad days for what was once one of the best commuting jobs.
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KAL is now even increasing the salary around 1000 USD pm before tax coz they can’t find enough idiots to return to this scumbag company.
I declined the recall several times and finally told them to fcuk off. If you look for being treated like a slave thats your place.
Even commuting will be down to Econ when available again. Many have found a better place, not to speak of the American boys. They all got a good gig in the US. Watch out until the Koreans start making smoking holes again once the expats are gone.
I declined the recall several times and finally told them to fcuk off. If you look for being treated like a slave thats your place.
Even commuting will be down to Econ when available again. Many have found a better place, not to speak of the American boys. They all got a good gig in the US. Watch out until the Koreans start making smoking holes again once the expats are gone.
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Sorry, I misread that. You are right in asking, the K-gang is bombing around in Business or First for their commutes for cargo, etc. As are we for the same, except now, starting in August, will be a lot of Y seats going home and likely some coming back. Time to wear that uniform for the whole ride!
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Things sure have gone down the old crapper.....Glad to be retired from KAL. Not surprised that KAL is going the. "economy route," for the expats, when escaping home. When we
used to have "first class" seats going home, the company felt a great victory in reducing us back to biz class.....they are a nasty bunch.....Don't forget guys to use up all your "sick
leave" while you are at home. If you don't use it, you lose it. I'm sure sitting in economy class there will be maximum fatigue.....Also when flying. I flew 95% of the sectors. There were
a few nice guys [not many] who got legs. There are too many clowns like blazedsign, in those right seats, with those attitudes....Let the racist boys work the radios...Good Luck.
used to have "first class" seats going home, the company felt a great victory in reducing us back to biz class.....they are a nasty bunch.....Don't forget guys to use up all your "sick
leave" while you are at home. If you don't use it, you lose it. I'm sure sitting in economy class there will be maximum fatigue.....Also when flying. I flew 95% of the sectors. There were
a few nice guys [not many] who got legs. There are too many clowns like blazedsign, in those right seats, with those attitudes....Let the racist boys work the radios...Good Luck.
