Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > South Asia and the Far East
Reload this Page >

KOREAN AIR expat pilots?

South Asia and the Far East News and views on the fast growing and changing aviation scene on the planet.

KOREAN AIR expat pilots?

Old 9th May 2020, 08:45
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Aus
Posts: 60
Eating hot pockets has already caused a pandemic..... Obesity.

It kills a lot more yanks than the bat flu ever will.
Switchbait is offline  
Old 21st May 2020, 17:50
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Grand Hyatt
Posts: 5
For anyone keeping score, KAL pilots were informed today that "with a heavy heart we decide to extend the LWOP for all expat crew members until conditions improve". This, in spite of reports that locals are flying 100 hours hard time on certain fleets.
Charlie Zogs is offline  
Old 21st May 2020, 22:04
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: uae
Posts: 2,437
Hard to believe the local pilots are even close to 100 hard hrs . Overall % of expats ?
fatbus is offline  
Old 22nd May 2020, 03:15
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Grand Hyatt
Posts: 5
Originally Posted by fatbus View Post
Hard to believe the local pilots are even close to 100 hard hrs . Overall % of expats ?
This is all unofficial information, of course, just cockpit talk passed along by the locals to the expats that have been tossed aside. And these are hours on the 777, not all fleets. Additionally, word from these same sources is 48 of KAL's 56 777's (pax and freighters) are flying. Supposedly, Korean Air is faring just fine by hauling freight. As for pilot percentages on the 777, in February there were 351 Korean captains and 135 expat captains, whatever percentage that works out to be. Clearly KAL can use expats on the fleet but, hey! Why not abuse the locals while keeping the expats on the street?! The airplanes keep flying! It's a daily-double for management!
Charlie Zogs is offline  
Old 22nd May 2020, 21:22
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 1
Originally Posted by motley flight crue View Post
Spanish flu (not from Spain) Rocky Mountain fever, Hendra virus, Ebola. All named after places. Wake up flightleader. So sick of PC crap these days. Why is calling a flu from China racist?
Well said!
(As you know, it's only 'racist' if a remark has been made against someone who is NOT of a Caucasian race. Not racist at all if the same [kind of] remark by a non-Caucasian is made against the Caucasian!)
Geoff Hunt is offline  
Old 23rd May 2020, 06:00
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: neverland
Posts: 9
Expats pilots have never been liked by the locals in KAL.
Although the huge reduction in insurance fees allowed thanks to their presence, and the direct support available in terms of scheduling In march the unions negotiated with the CEO An “exit strategy” of the expat workforce, and we are now at stage 2.
Next step is going to be “we do regret to inform you....”
very sad that most of us didn’t see this coming .....
Flyoveriraq is offline  
Old 24th May 2020, 16:19
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: A land far, far away
Posts: 99
I think most of us knew it was a huge risk and probable eventuality. We chose instead to ignore some of that reality and make the best of the situation. Itís still was (is?) the best commuting contract in the airline biz.

What you state above is heresy. Yes, about 10% of the force donít like us, maybe another 20-30% have been brainwashed to dislike us as well, but the larger part of the group prefer to fly with us, as our CRM skills are evolved and we are generally more team focused and kinder to the FOs.

Reality is we are a perfect workforce for KAL, on the margin. If they need us, great, bring us in and fly us, if not, send us home to sit on our hands. Another reality in aviation, the retirements hit fast and hard over the next 10 years. The more pilots that get brushed aside, the harder this is going to be on airlines in the middle of the 20s, when there is absolutely no pool of qualified applicants. Especially if the terms and conditions erode throughout this period, as I fully suspect. Smart management wonít see this as an opportunity, theyíll be wise enough to realize whatís further ahead of them and treat the pilots as the professionals they are.

But for now, itís a waiting game. The well managed will prosper in the coming years, the poorly managed will flounder or fail. We will see what comes of KAL and the others in Korea.
Craic Ore is offline  
Old 25th May 2020, 16:46
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Alderaan
Posts: 161
Totally agree with you about the mid 20’s. Unfortunately management do not think like that. It’s always me, me and me. Cut as much as I can now, make my bonus NOW. We don’t know what tomorrow holds. By the mid 20’s they could be retired somewhere on some tropical island.....
The Rage is offline  
Old 26th May 2020, 00:10
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Korea
Posts: 1
I donít think KAL understands how much planning is required to bring crew back as I think this will be the first time in a very long time they will have to recall pilots.

It was easy to kick everyone to the curb but with such a strained training system they are going to hit a major bottleneck. We all know very well how long it takes to train crew in normal times! There is no way they can bring 350+ pilots back in one month and itís probably just starting to dawn on them.

Think how busy it was up until March. I heard the guys over 60 (Korean and expat) might not get renewed so that will really put a strain even on the June schedule increase let alone looking ahead to the end of the year.

KALís 2020 Q1 public financial statement outlook and plan calls to ďproactively manage supply in preparation for demand recoveryĒand ďsecure long term growth potential.Ē

Proactive doesnít mean wait for demand then hope to catch up. They want to be ready to respond to a positive trending market, even a slow recovery.

I would hate to be bowing down to the Chairman or CEO explaining how much I saved booting the expats out but unable to crew aircraft to their plans because I didnít consider how much planning was required to recall them.

On that topic, no CEO or Chairman negotiates directly with any pilots union for crewing, so get the idea out of your head. We would have been tossed in March with 41 aircraft flying under force majeure. There are now 111 aircraft flying, all public info.

With half the 747 fleet parked, why did KAL keep 22 expat captains in Seoul?

The trend is towards a slow recovery but will take serious forward planning for recalling pilots. IĎm cautiously optimistic just looking at the numbers but who knows for sure.

See everyone in the lobby at 6
BeeforBeef is offline  
Old 26th May 2020, 06:33
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: neverland
Posts: 9
Originally Posted by Craic Ore View Post
I think most of us knew it was a huge risk and probable eventuality. We chose instead to ignore some of that reality and make the best of the situation. Itís still was (is?) the best commuting contract in the airline biz.

Not really sure about What you mean here.....signing for a contractor job has always had a relative risk of losing your income without a protection, but the lack of ethics shown by the korean managements, together with a complete and disappointing behavior by the agencies was a major disaster.

What you state above is heresy. Yes, about 10% of the force donít like us, maybe another 20-30% have been brainwashed to dislike us as well, but the larger part of the group prefer to fly with us, as our CRM skills are evolved and we are generally more team focused and kinder to the FOs.

You call this an heresy, but I believe you should really do a rain check: what you called evolved CRM skilled for them is just a mere opportunity to reaffirm their individuality in a company , or more widely speaking a society, which is based on seniority and rank with no mercy. We are not welcomed in that country and the last covid crisis showed it really hard: there is no help for foreigners, even if married with koreans....

Reality is we are a perfect workforce for KAL, on the margin. If they need us, great, bring us in and fly us, if not, send us home to sit on our hands. Another reality in aviation, the retirements hit fast and hard over the next 10 years. The more pilots that get brushed aside, the harder this is going to be on airlines in the middle of the 20s, when there is absolutely no pool of qualified applicants. Especially if the terms and conditions erode throughout this period, as I fully suspect. Smart management wonít see this as an opportunity, theyíll be wise enough to realize whatís further ahead of them and treat the pilots as the professionals they are.

But for now, itís a waiting game. The well managed will prosper in the coming years, the poorly managed will flounder or fail. We will see what comes of KAL and the others in Korea.
I agree, letís wait and see what happen, and please, let us know your insight when your license and qualification will be expired, and you will not receive even a pat on your shoulder for all these years hard work.
By the way, what is your family saying about korean pilots receiving 70% of their salary for sitting on their hands compared to your ....nothing?

All the best to all of us, we really deserve it...
Flyoveriraq is offline  
Old 26th May 2020, 15:01
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: neverland
Posts: 9
BFB, I really like your post, it is wise and balanced, and of course is based on a direct observation of korean air standard way of approaching problem solving.
i would like to add to your script a general bad feeling about the impact of MOLIT decision regarding the training requirements: if for a triple7 skipper just flying the week before for emirates took 4 to 5 months in times of full availability of the training structure, how long is going to take to retrain almost 400 pilots needing on average 2 sim and 2 sectors plus a line check?
I hope who took this decision will get also held responsible for the lack of crew UNLESS, in this meanwhile are training people from 4 eng to twins........then all the math makes sense.....
Flyoveriraq is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.