Air Japan starts to hire non-JCAB DEC
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Finally! Thats good to hear. Is it still gonna take more than 8 months for release? Or have they changed the conversion procedure? One of the agents had mentioned that they might hire non JCAB DEC in the future.
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It is already on PARC website NTR/TR B767 without JCAB ATPL. Seniority in Air Japan is based on Hire date so if you enter as DEC you will have a lot of F/O in front. On B787 transition there will be a lot of waiting until they Upgrade to Capt.
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lets not be kidding here - a starting pay of 10800 US roughly, an 8 month course assuming you're not 767 typed, and a 4500 PIC 65kG+ jet time requirement ? Who in their right mind would jump to that opportunity? It shows that it's obviously met to target a very very small number of candidates.
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https://www.crewresourcesworldwide.com/jobs
Crew has not updated their website but the contract details are there. Who in their right mind? Well, I wouldn't be surprised if there are more than a few applicants from guys trying to escape the sands...!
Crew has not updated their website but the contract details are there. Who in their right mind? Well, I wouldn't be surprised if there are more than a few applicants from guys trying to escape the sands...!
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There are a few points that need to be understood about this latest development.
Think carefully before leaving your current job. A mate did it the last time DEC’s were accepted. He was washed in his final Line Check. His career never really recovered after that.
- AJX tried DEC non-JCAB before. The failure rate was over 80%. JCAB checkers are not keen on passing guys who have not come up through the system.
- Any non-JCAB DEC that does pass the training is not going to have a very supportive co-pilot. Co-pilots here speak their minds.
- DEC’s will have the lowest seniority in the company. They will basically fly the 767 freighter back-of-the-clock until the 767 gets parked in the desert.
- The training is 6 months until JCAB check. If, big IF (read point no.1 again) you pass, there is always that pesky little JCAB medical that could change your whole life.
Think carefully before leaving your current job. A mate did it the last time DEC’s were accepted. He was washed in his final Line Check. His career never really recovered after that.
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I am no apologist for the Company but there is certainly some duff information flying around here (and on the main AJX thread) and clearly from some people who weren't even around when non-JCAB licenced DECs were last hired.
There has been scaremongering that FOs will have commands delayed etc. This never happened previously, so why should it happen again? Unlike other airlines, AJX does not seem to care if it has an abundance of captains versus FOs. Look at the make-up of manpower in AJV and realise that it was almost all captains. Since they don't have a quota and have already indicated to the GLs that upgrades will continue as they always have, then it will make no difference at all to FOs whether DECs are brought in (again) or not. We will simply end up with more captains than FOs....which Scheduling likes as they have more flexibility with rostering.
What absolute rot! The number of pilots (captain or FO) that didn't make it through training when we took non-JCAB DECs is no different to it is now. 80% is complete and utter nonsense and just a fabricated figure. I cannot think of one person that failed in the courses before or after me. We all know the reason guys don't get through is because of attitude, rather than ability. Everyone with an ounce of common sense knows this before they join and shouldn't attempt to do so if they can't just shut their mouths, nod and do it the way the Japanese want it done. I'm not saying their way is right (far from it, in fact) but when in Rome.....JCAB checkers don't give a damn how you got to be there and certainly never appeared biased either way when DECs were previously brought in.
For goodness sake!! If that is your attitude then you are in the minority and just smacks of a childish attempt to scare away potential DECs. Really quite pathetic. Co-pilots speak their mind exactly the same as they do in any other country. There is no sudden transformation to an over-bearing FO just because he's come to AJX. Any DEC will be used to dealing with the same mind-speaking FOs elsewhere and your comment is just nonsense. If the co-pilot turns out to be unsupportive (which I can guarantee wouldn't happen) then it is he who is going to end up with the problem, not the DEC.
That is probably the first sensible thing you've written and will undoubtedly prove true.
Because FOs promoted to captain from within don't have to do JCAB medicals 
? Again, anyone applying as a DEC will have read the main thread and know about the ridiculously long 'training' period. Nobody is denying the totally unrealistic length of training but that is the same for non-JCAB, JCAB DECs and regular non-JCAB FOs. Much in the same way that JCAB medicals apply equally, whether you join as a DEC or not.
There has been scaremongering that FOs will have commands delayed etc. This never happened previously, so why should it happen again? Unlike other airlines, AJX does not seem to care if it has an abundance of captains versus FOs. Look at the make-up of manpower in AJV and realise that it was almost all captains. Since they don't have a quota and have already indicated to the GLs that upgrades will continue as they always have, then it will make no difference at all to FOs whether DECs are brought in (again) or not. We will simply end up with more captains than FOs....which Scheduling likes as they have more flexibility with rostering.
AJX tried DEC non-JCAB before. The failure rate was over 80%. JCAB checkers are not keen on passing guys who have not come up through the system.
Any non-JCAB DEC that does pass the training is not going to have a very supportive co-pilot. Co-pilots here speak their minds.
DEC’s will have the lowest seniority in the company. They will basically fly the 767 freighter back-of-the-clock until the 767 gets parked in the desert.
The training is 6 months until JCAB check. If, big IF (read point no.1 again) you pass, there is always that pesky little JCAB medical that could change your whole life.
? Again, anyone applying as a DEC will have read the main thread and know about the ridiculously long 'training' period. Nobody is denying the totally unrealistic length of training but that is the same for non-JCAB, JCAB DECs and regular non-JCAB FOs. Much in the same way that JCAB medicals apply equally, whether you join as a DEC or not.
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One of the refreshing things about this never ending thread! Despite the occasional rubbish posted, their is always someone to return the discussion to common sense and reality. Thank you Fratemate ( and The Dominican)!
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What absolute rot! The number of pilots (captain or FO) that didn't make it through training when we took non-JCAB DECs is no different to it is now. 80% is complete and utter nonsense and just a fabricated figure. I cannot think of one person that failed in the courses before or after me. We all know the reason guys don't get through is because of attitude, rather than ability. Everyone with an ounce of common sense knows this before they join and shouldn't attempt to do so if they can't just shut their mouths, nod and do it the way the Japanese want it done. I'm not saying their way is right (far from it, in fact) but when in Rome.....JCAB checkers don't give a damn how you got to be there and certainly never appeared biased either way when DECs were previously brought in.
For goodness sake!! If that is your attitude then you are in the minority and just smacks of a childish attempt to scare away potential DECs. Really quite pathetic. Co-pilots speak their mind exactly the same as they do in any other country. There is no sudden transformation to an over-bearing FO just because he's come to AJX. Any DEC will be used to dealing with the same mind-speaking FOs elsewhere and your comment is just nonsense. If the co-pilot turns out to be unsupportive (which I can guarantee wouldn't happen) then it is he who is going to end up with the problem, not the DEC.
.
For goodness sake!! If that is your attitude then you are in the minority and just smacks of a childish attempt to scare away potential DECs. Really quite pathetic. Co-pilots speak their mind exactly the same as they do in any other country. There is no sudden transformation to an over-bearing FO just because he's come to AJX. Any DEC will be used to dealing with the same mind-speaking FOs elsewhere and your comment is just nonsense. If the co-pilot turns out to be unsupportive (which I can guarantee wouldn't happen) then it is he who is going to end up with the problem, not the DEC.
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As far as f/o's having a problem with DEC's, that is crap. If you are an f/o here then you should know that DEC's will have no bearing on your advancement in this company. So there is no reason for an f/o to be "speaking their mind" about anything other than what is going on in the flight. Just as if you were with any other captain. Seriously, grow up. (not you frate, I know you are already old.)
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I think Fratemate and jrmyl addressed the previous post that I think is riddled with inaccuracies!
But I'll bring my own perspective to the topic. First, the international market and specially the market here in Japan has changed many times over in the 12 years that I have been here and that has affected the failure rates in great part at AJX, the market today is not the market where hundreds of experienced pilots were furloughed from carriers in the US, OZ, the EU and they were looking where to hang their hat, that was the time that I came as a DEC, In my class 2 guys didn't make it as DEC's (about a 10%)
One was nothing more than attitude, you know the type, the "I'm this airline's salvation type" The other came from flying the classic 74 and had a hard time with the FMS, fell into the multiple discontinuities trap and didn't know how to get out of it, if you have to request a hold and spend two or three turns on the racetrack just to setup a STAR and a transition, the Japanese are going to start taking points away from the scorecard. His sim partner offered help, let's come in our day off and get into the FMS trainer and set it up a dozen times, that would have taken care of it, but he always had something else to do so he didn't make it.
I personally never encountered any attitude from the F/O's here, quite frankly half of them don't know if you came as a DEC or not, we are all contract pilots, we understand that longevity here is a loose term and that we really have no contractual entitlements to an upgrade evaluation nor a command, that is the contract world!
I agree that this will not affect in any way the upgrade evaluation schedules for the 76 and the way that they rolled out the requirements, I believe that they are targeting a small group of pilots, in fact I believe this is directed to the guys that are trying to escape the sands, and judging by the guys from the ME3 that are already here, the success rate should be pretty high for somebody that is a 777 captain or a 787 captain in the ME, to get checked on the line here as a DEC.
I've said it many times that training here is not difficult, it is long, repetitive and boring, but not difficult..., They do have a particular (almost pedantic) way of running their training, you adapt and learn the Kabuki performance as instructed and you will be fine, if you start trying to change the dialogue on the scene and improvise because you know better, they'll find a way to get rid of you, even if you do know better!
But I'll bring my own perspective to the topic. First, the international market and specially the market here in Japan has changed many times over in the 12 years that I have been here and that has affected the failure rates in great part at AJX, the market today is not the market where hundreds of experienced pilots were furloughed from carriers in the US, OZ, the EU and they were looking where to hang their hat, that was the time that I came as a DEC, In my class 2 guys didn't make it as DEC's (about a 10%)
One was nothing more than attitude, you know the type, the "I'm this airline's salvation type" The other came from flying the classic 74 and had a hard time with the FMS, fell into the multiple discontinuities trap and didn't know how to get out of it, if you have to request a hold and spend two or three turns on the racetrack just to setup a STAR and a transition, the Japanese are going to start taking points away from the scorecard. His sim partner offered help, let's come in our day off and get into the FMS trainer and set it up a dozen times, that would have taken care of it, but he always had something else to do so he didn't make it.
I personally never encountered any attitude from the F/O's here, quite frankly half of them don't know if you came as a DEC or not, we are all contract pilots, we understand that longevity here is a loose term and that we really have no contractual entitlements to an upgrade evaluation nor a command, that is the contract world!
I agree that this will not affect in any way the upgrade evaluation schedules for the 76 and the way that they rolled out the requirements, I believe that they are targeting a small group of pilots, in fact I believe this is directed to the guys that are trying to escape the sands, and judging by the guys from the ME3 that are already here, the success rate should be pretty high for somebody that is a 777 captain or a 787 captain in the ME, to get checked on the line here as a DEC.
I've said it many times that training here is not difficult, it is long, repetitive and boring, but not difficult..., They do have a particular (almost pedantic) way of running their training, you adapt and learn the Kabuki performance as instructed and you will be fine, if you start trying to change the dialogue on the scene and improvise because you know better, they'll find a way to get rid of you, even if you do know better!
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Here’s my question to the public:
For a DEC looking for a new opportunity in possibly a nice country, the options in EU or US are 4 legs days on minimum rest and paying for the type if not current. For half salary compared to AJX.
Correct?
So what exactly is the problem here?
For a DEC looking for a new opportunity in possibly a nice country, the options in EU or US are 4 legs days on minimum rest and paying for the type if not current. For half salary compared to AJX.
Correct?
So what exactly is the problem here?
