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Hainan Airlines

Old 6th Jul 2018, 12:06
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Hainan Airlines

I have noticed the banner on here advertising Hainan Airlines based anywhere they fly into and 305K net a year. Iím a UK based A320 skipper with a family and this seems almost too good to be true. I have researched on here Chinese airlines and culture (one potential stopper for me is I donít think I could stand cigarette smoke in the flight deck if this still goes on?) and looked st the very limited info on Hainan. Can anybody advise me the latest please?
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Old 6th Jul 2018, 13:35
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Originally Posted by Captain Spam Can View Post
I have noticed the banner on here advertising Hainan Airlines based anywhere they fly into and 305K net a year. Iím a UK based A320 skipper with a family and this seems almost too good to be true. I have researched on here Chinese airlines and culture (one potential stopper for me is I donít think I could stand cigarette smoke in the flight deck if this still goes on?) and looked st the very limited info on Hainan. Can anybody advise me the latest please?
You are well informed on the smoke in cockpit. Well if it bothers you..forget about chinese airlines.
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Old 7th Jul 2018, 07:24
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Originally Posted by Captain Spam Can View Post
I have researched on here Chinese airlines and culture (one potential stopper for me is I donít think I could stand cigarette smoke in the flight deck if this still goes on?)
You will potentially suck up some 2nd hand smoke while flying with an instructor during your initial qualification and annual checks. But the FOs don't smoke if they knew you don't smoke. That said, there is supposedly such a thing as 3rd hand smoke, meaning all the nicotine particles being stored in the fabrics etc and re-released into the air (think cockpit, car rides, and hotel rooms). The $300K USD net is true though.
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Old 8th Jul 2018, 12:42
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Anyone has more info regarding the terms and conditions at HAINAN? Do they have commuting contracts?
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Old 8th Jul 2018, 15:21
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Thanks for the info, their doesnít seem to be too much recent feedback on working for Hainan or selection. Also any british expats out there how does tax work as it says Chinese tax is paid but does the british HMRC still come after some as it would be 50% with those sums which then makes it not worthwhile.
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Old 11th Jul 2018, 09:07
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Originally Posted by g109 View Post
Anyone has more info regarding the terms and conditions at HAINAN? Do they have commuting contracts?
The commuting are 8 days off per month and 11 days off per month. 4 weeks on 4 weeks off has been suspended now.
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Old 13th Jul 2018, 01:27
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Looks like more evidence all is not well at HNA...

https://www.ft.com/content/bcedf80c-...d-73e3d454535d
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Old 13th Jul 2018, 21:07
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For UK residents working in China; you can offset the tax paid in China, but will still have a 30+% liability for HMRC.
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Old 17th Jul 2018, 11:15
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Originally Posted by chinafly View Post
For UK residents working in China; you can offset the tax paid in China, but will still have a 30+% liability for HMRC.
I presume this only applies for those on a commuting contract and staying more than 90 nights in the UK?
If you aren't and are paying tax at source of employment I'm led to believe that no tax is due in the UK
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Old 17th Jul 2018, 13:30
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I suppose it would depend where you are resident . If you are a UK resident, as defined in the RDR3 doc
https://www.gov.uk/government/public...dence-test-srt
then you would have to declare your worldwide income to HMRC and pay any difference. I can only assume that historically people may well have forgotten to declare, however, since Jan 2016, China and the UK/EU have automatic information sharing and I would suggest not declaring it to HMRC could lead to a world of hurt in the future.
Same would go for those resident in the EU, unless you were on a scheme something along the lines as Portugal’s NHR scheme.
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Old 17th Jul 2018, 16:45
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Originally Posted by hunterboy View Post
I suppose it would depend where you are resident . If you are a UK resident, as defined in the RDR3 doc
https://www.gov.uk/government/public...dence-test-srt
then you would have to declare your worldwide income to HMRC and pay any difference. I can only assume that historically people may well have forgotten to declare, however, since Jan 2016, China and the UK/EU have automatic information sharing and I would suggest not declaring it to HMRC could lead to a world of hurt in the future.
Same would go for those resident in the EU, unless you were on a scheme something along the lines as Portugalís NHR scheme.
I think that supports what I said albeit far more eloquently!
If declaring China as residency for a 3 yr contract, tax is paid, you notify HMRC that you are no longer a UK tax resident and prove so via the new test system then there is no tax payable to HMRC on your return.
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Old 18th Jul 2018, 15:18
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Thanks for the info, itís a shame the pay isnít net including UK taxes, I wouldnít be resident in China. Any comparisons lately between Hainan and China southern? I see they do a reserve roster out of LHR.
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Old 18th Jul 2018, 17:37
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Yes but the tax thing goes for all of these commuting contracts.
Obviously if youíre commuting then youíre liable for taxes in your country, thereís no way around it. Unless you move your residency and spend less than 180 days etc but still, if you have a family back in Europe then good luck proving youí not liable.
Iíd say itís worth it for someone looking for a family adventure and to get out of Europe, or if you have a brilliant plan with 3/4 residencies around the world to suit the purporse. Otherwise to be honest I donít see the advantage considering half the salary (in dollars) will go to the taxman.
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Old 19th Jul 2018, 20:23
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You have to remember that to qualify for non residence tax status you have to be out of the UK for the whole tax year apart from your 180 days allowance. If you go or come back within the tax year you are liable for that year's taxes.
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Old 20th Jul 2018, 13:18
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Dual Taxation Agreement

As I understand it, UK and PRC have a dual taxation agreement in place. Assuming your employer in China pays ALL your taxes, as they promise to, and a certificate is issued to that effect, you will not be liable to UK tax on your Chinese salary even as a UK resident.
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Old 20th Jul 2018, 13:28
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Think carefully before joining Hainan due to their current financial problems. Rumours of some agencies not being able to pay their pilots, Airbus stopping further deliveries as well. Hopefully they are "too big to fail" and it gets sorted out.

China Southern may be a better option at the moment.
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Old 21st Jul 2018, 07:02
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Originally Posted by Fareastdriver View Post
You have to remember that to qualify for non residence tax status you have to be out of the UK for the whole tax year apart from your 180 days allowance. If you go or come back within the tax year you are liable for that year's taxes.
I think you will find it is nowhere near 180 days unfortunately. Nearer 90-120 max in UK before you become tax resident. Depends on your ties to the country.......

As mentioned, if your Chinese airline pays ALL tax in China then there wont be an issue in UK as the overall tax rates in China are very similar to UK and as such no top up required. The issue is finding out whether the airline you are moving to pays full tax before committing as otherwise you will get an unwelcome tax bill.

Cheers
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Old 21st Jul 2018, 07:48
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Originally Posted by krismiler View Post
Think carefully before joining Hainan due to their current financial problems. Rumours of some agencies not being able to pay their pilots, Airbus stopping further deliveries as well. Hopefully they are "too big to fail" and it gets sorted out.

China Southern may be a better option at the moment.
Of course anyone should make their own research, but the current news regarding the above stated financial troubles relate to HNA Group and not Hainan Airlines. The two are currently underway to be financially disentangled. Agencies not paying their pilots is because said agencies are not managing their financials properly. Hainan Airlines has in the past (twice I believe) delayed their salary payments by up to 10 days; but again that did not affect me. I have been paid by my agency each and every month on the first of the month. Also Hainan starts taking delivery of a new 787 next week and will receive more every 21 days until the end of the year.

I'm not saying that working in China or for Hainan Airlines specifically is without risk, but IMHO it's worth it and you're getting rewarded for it handsomely. Picking a reputable Agency and sufficient LoL Insurance etc are a very important part of that.
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Old 25th Jul 2018, 04:12
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Regarding smoking on the flight deck - the next revision of CCAR 121 will ban smoking. Some Chinese airlines already have due to a recent incident.
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Old 25th Jul 2018, 12:48
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Thanks for the info lots of of Ďfood for thoughtí I think the next step is to speak to Longreach about selection etc and contact HMRC to clarify the tax position as it just wouldnít be worth it otherwise. I know itís 20K a month for a reason. Its no brainier one has no job or is unhappy but leaving somewhere you enjoy is difficult but 20K a month is life changing! Any opinions on which carrier is a better place to be reserve roster UK with CSA or uk commuting base Hainan?
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