South Asia and the Far East News and views on the fast growing and changing aviation scene on the planet.

China Southern wannabes

Old 2nd Jun 2016, 05:47
  #121 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Melbourne
Age: 57
Posts: 29
I know this is a rumour forum, but the domestic rosters for the A330 RSP pilots haven't started - yet!! Maybe they will try it on and maybe they won't, but I would suggest that the ticking time bomb in the form of around 12 (A330) QF pilots on LWOP is a big risk to their operation. Especially as QF has virtually guaranteed that anyone wanting to return from LWOP can do so whenever they chose. The big two considerations are money & time at home, so if CSA makes a mess of this, they could well see their recruiting/retention targets in tatters, along with a fair bit of bloodshed in the CSA Ops management ranks. Interesting times ahead!!
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Old 2nd Jun 2016, 07:06
  #122 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: bahamas
Posts: 215
Hi All,
I have been emailed from a few agencies claiming that CSA is now offering a 1 month on 1 month off contract. I am always a little be wary of the claims they make. Have any of you there heard of this or are on it or have been offered it ?
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Old 2nd Jun 2016, 09:21
  #123 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Belowthetail
Posts: 36
It is being offered. Only just started so nobody rostered yet.

You fly 120 hours in your month on, which is fixed from the 15th of the month until the 14th of the following month. It is straddled over 2 calendar months to get around the 100 in 30 rule.

That means you work 720 hours for the year which is 75% of a full time (960) roster and you get paid accordingly ie 75% of the full contract.
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Old 2nd Jun 2016, 09:28
  #124 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: bahamas
Posts: 215
thanks fatass. { always wanted to say that }
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Old 3rd Jun 2016, 13:07
  #125 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: China
Posts: 14
Month on month off

Caveat emptor with the month on month off option; it is very new and has not fully been implemented yet. I did hear talk that it may only be open to pilots after a minimum qualifying period, such as two years......which is what I heard they do in Hainan.

So, if you are joining on that basis, make sure you are super clear on when you will be on it. Just think if your family could handle you getting only 7-8 days at home on a commuting roster for 2 years......

Re the 330 fleet its amazing how they were the golden kids, with perfect rosters and a manager that "understood" the foreign pilots.

Now its potentially going to be a basket case. Thats China for you.
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Old 4th Jun 2016, 02:05
  #126 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Here and there
Posts: 37
Just keep in mind that it is VERY normal for local pilots to leave their families and significant others at home and only see them only 2-3 times a year on a long stretch. Kids are being raised by grand parents etc. The whole system are based on the migrant workers lifestyle. Therefore, most Chinese airline managers see no problems with that kind of schedule. If they promise you month on month off, especially on a legacy airline whose managers came up under that kind of schedule, I would think twice.
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Old 4th Jun 2016, 03:03
  #127 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Wanaka, NZ
Posts: 2,059
@Trash8mofo is correct on that over-view of the China situation. They offered me 1 month on 1 month off, but the reality is, some operational flexibility on the rostering should be anticipated* (*read that as expected). At my first contract renewal, the 1 month on 1 month off was so far removed from reality I suggested they just pay me at a daily rate for every day I'm in China, whether I go to work or not.
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Old 4th Jun 2016, 08:42
  #128 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: FL410
Posts: 91
And they agree to pay you like your offered them?
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Old 4th Jun 2016, 13:26
  #129 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Wanaka, NZ
Posts: 2,059
@Oscar84 they agreed to everything I asked for, plus more. I think it's a pretty good gig...
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Old 7th Jun 2016, 17:35
  #130 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: europe
Posts: 97
There is alot of truth in many of the posts above and some good info for anyone considering taking the plunge.......

Think long and hard why you are actually coming here and what you want to take from the job.......

For the RSP?- Yes many of us understandably do and its a BIG pull for this job. Be warned though that bases seem to open and close willy nilly as the aircraft to that destination changes. As has been mentioned above, from a couple of months of 'good rosters', we are again seeing much longer trips appearing from the RSP's so who knows where we will be with that next month.....
Now some guys like the longer trips away from their home/family so as I mentioned above......think hard what it is you want from the job.

Money?- Yes of course there is no arguing that the money is good compared to the west BUT if that is your sole reason for coming to CSA then you would be better looking at other options in China as funnily enough CSA is one of the 'lower payers' now......

Commuting roster?- This was also a major pull for many people to the job. Choosing your 10 consecutive days off every month. Nice if you dont live commutable to an RSP. This has now changed on some fleets wef next month and guys will be able to choose days off 1-10, 11-20 or 21-30 each month depending on their assigned 'group'. Seemingly you can move your assigned days off by 3 days or so but as you can see this is a major blow for commuters used to choosing their days off each month.

Job stability/security ?- The medical is such a roulette with guys constantly being knocked down, taken off the line and paid 100$ per day that if job stability/security is what you're looking for then look elsewhere.

Anyway just a few points to consider before taking the plunge down here.

Its not meant to be a whinge at all as there are many of us here that the job actually works for. Just trying to help some guys out before making the big decision to put your family through the CSA roller coaster 😝😝

As you can see from posts above, things change here at the drop of a hat so when you thino things are improving for the better, boom some local jealousy issues come up and suddenly you are back to square one again.

For those considering, do your research first and be very careful only listening to the agents as they will do anything to sucker you in here so they get their money. Most of them havent got a clue what it's really like working here so PM guys to get accurate info before giving up a stable job back in your homeland.

As one poster mentioned above, some guys really fit in here and others struggle. The constant changing of the goal posts doesn't help in keeping morale up though thats for sure but..........TIC 😩😫😄😝

All the best to all with whatever you choose,

Last edited by mach85; 8th Jun 2016 at 13:55.
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Old 16th Jun 2016, 21:56
  #131 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 110
Hi, quick question. The MOMO (if offered) doesn't include accommodation after the first 6 weeks. What is the price of accommodation in CAN like (I see that a housing allowance is paid for those on a mode CAN, do this cover somewhere half descent to live?).

Someone higher up this thread said that pilots had to pay to commute but I note the following in the info pack: 'Return commuting flights once a month on airline network'. Is this always supplied and is it to your home airport (mine would be LHR).

I am technically eligible to apply for any of the fleets (not saying I would get them) so is it fair to say the A330 is the better of the fleets judging by previous comments?

The info pack does offer MOMO as an option, do you think it may be likely that this could be postponed on joining as someone previously said or are they likely to honour what people have signed up for?

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Old 18th Jun 2016, 23:49
  #132 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Neverland
Posts: 85
Looking at HNA. Can anyone speak on 330 rosters. Any Americans willing to share how the tax liability works out. Just looking for a close % does not need to be exact. Would be commuting to the states.. Thanks all.
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Old 21st Jun 2016, 02:40
  #133 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Sydney
Posts: 1
@Winston accommodation can be had in CAN reasonably inexpensively. Either per night at 4-5 star for 400rmb/night with breakfast, or rent a flat for 3500-4000rmb in Huadu or 8000rmb in CAN proper. Most guys go for hotel for flexibility and if CAN based you will be away from base heaps 120hrs is a lot to cram into 30days. Buyer beware, SIMS are not included in 'work' month, thats another 2 weeks min, of time in China. ALSO, Commuting flights are confusing. 2 types, 1 they PAX you to operate a service e.g. PAX CAN-PEK to operate PEK-AMS, no sweat, company flight, company hotel. 2 type you are 'AMS based' and you live in Malaga - you are on you own, except they'll pay the hotel the night before if early start. Might even require you to crew a FRA departure...guys are generally happy, but sometimes a bit messy and spend time being a travel agent. Live near your RSP and life is pretty easy.
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Old 21st Jun 2016, 16:18
  #134 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 110
Thanks Bowman2. I live 10mins from LHR so may be useful. I am waiting to speak to the agent but as they are 12 hours time difference, it is proving challenging.

Having looked at various options including NAI, EK, EZY, Hanain, Korean, it appears that CSA suits me better on paper. Just need to work out between CAN, MOMO or RSP and then I may apply and then take on the selection challenge!
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Old 27th Jun 2016, 11:12
  #135 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 110
Hi all. Quick question. Out of the A330, B777 and B787 which would you say is the best fleet to be on? Looking at the routes, I guess I would hit my 80 hours / 120 hours quicker on the 777? Any ideas which fleets have RSP ex LHR?

Just weighing up the pros and cons of applying for TR or NTR

Winston is offline  
Old 27th Jun 2016, 15:14
  #136 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Earth
Posts: 61
Best fleet in terms of job satisfaction seems to be the 330 as they normally take turns flying and foreign crews seem to be accepted more as part of the team.

777 expect to basically become a CRZ CPT and only land to maintain currency, except for domestic sectors where you'll be a normal PIC when the time comes.

787 seems to be the worst in that regard as most of them have to keep operating with an LTC on the right hand sest almost indefinitely.

Right now LHR is on 787 but that could change anytime if they decide to swap acft type for that route.

Lastly, weather you reach the 80 hours sooner or later is irrelevant as what really matters are the days that you're gone from home. So pick your type in regards to geography and not flight time.
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Old 28th Jun 2016, 06:12
  #137 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 110
Great, thanks for the info
Winston is offline  
Old 29th Jun 2016, 15:20
  #138 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Dubai
Posts: 32
MOMO Update

MOMO is still under construction and final version will come out with the update to the Master Contract in August. It's shaping up as follows:

CAN based only, not available from RSP
Current CSN pilots 3 year wait. No idea about newbies
Hotel allowance pro rated
Full Safety Bonus, maybe
Sim month 35 days with additional pay for the 5 extra days.
30 day period rotates every June.
110 hours a month cycle

All subject to change
777Goose is offline  
Old 1st Jul 2016, 16:38
  #139 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: new york
Posts: 82
can someone tell me what these abbreviation means:

CSN pilots?

mmorel is offline  
Old 2nd Jul 2016, 07:24
  #140 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Boldly going where no split infinitive has gone before..
Posts: 4,292
CAN= Guangzhou (formerly Canton)

RSR= Reverse Scheduling Port- basically a base in all but name. An airport from which they agree you can begin and end your tour.

CSN= China Southern (though I think CSA is actually the IATA code)
Wizofoz is offline  

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