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AI Express looks to poach IAF pilots

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AI Express looks to poach IAF pilots

Old 3rd Jan 2013, 06:25
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AI Express looks to poach IAF pilots

Thiruvananthapuram: Faced with the issue of pilot shortage, Air India Express would seek the service of young pilots from Indian Air Force and Indian Navy. The budget carrier would offer attractive remuneration to pilots on par with the market standards, with a view to also reducing the attrition rate, AIE has decided.
AIE was forced to cancel many services in recent times owing to pilot shortage. While it requires at least 252 pilots, including commanders and first officers, to operate its 21 aircraft, the airline has only around 185 pilots.
Unattractive remuneration is a major reason for the scarcity of experienced pilots. "During the last few months alone, nearly ten senior pilots left AIE and joined various other airlines," AIE sources said.
Concerned, the civil aviation ministry chalked out an action plan. "We would be mainly looking for young pilots from the Air Force or Navy as well as other agencies who could be appointed as trainer commanders so that their service could be used for operating the regular services and well as in upgrading the trainee pilots and first-officers to senior positions. The civil aviation ministry will be directly contacting the defence ministry for this," said the sources.
Though the national carrier earlier made an attempt to get trained pilots from the IAF, it did not work well. Unattractive pay package has been a major hindrance, the sources added.

AI Express looks to poach IAF pilots | Deccan Chronicle
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Old 3rd Jan 2013, 07:11
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They've been there, and done that, with little succes. So I wonder what improvements has AIX made to build that ER better mouse trap?

Oh well... let the games begin... again

Last edited by captjns; 3rd Jan 2013 at 07:14.
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Old 3rd Jan 2013, 07:21
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Well i believe they will just hire some expats as TRE or TRI. Getting people from Air Force and Navy is not an overnight task because it involves lots of paperwork/noc's then DGCA examinations and Checks etc etc... I might be wrong but i would guess it would easily take more then 6 months for someone to leave the forces, go through the DGCA exams getting the licence. and to top that, Well for joining AI express is another story all together, it can take from 7 days to 7 months depending upon whether you can please the so called big shots who run the show...
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Old 3rd Jan 2013, 09:17
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From what I can read between the lines, it looks like AIE want to hire military pilots as direct entry trainers. That's a recipe for disaster in my books. The military and civilian worlds are poles apart and the military guys need a year or two just flying the line to get used to those differences before training IMHO. Obviously AIE could have offered market T's + C's and they would have kept their senior pilots!
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Old 6th Jan 2013, 11:01
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Take a civilist and you can transform him into a militarist, vice versa it is not so easy. It takes a while until the brain is cleaned again that we do not fly missions, we transport without taking any risk just from A to B, nothing else.

I can only support the statements made earlier: The T&Cīs have to be kept in order to maintain your employees. That is a problem most bean counters havenīt detected yet. When the metal is parked the desk jockeys who know it all can move it. I watch the place.

Fly safe and land happy

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Old 6th Jan 2013, 11:42
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Military guys will increase the failure rate by %90 , the two cultures do not mix well .
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Old 6th Jan 2013, 14:57
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High heads, big ego's and really poor CRM!
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Old 15th Jan 2013, 16:53
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hello people, any information from anyone regarding the recruitment of Co-pilots??? If the grapevine is to be believed by january end they will be calling type rated candidates? Can anyone confirm??
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Old 19th Jan 2013, 16:29
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Cash-hit AI to spend lakhs for big bird plan

Air India
MUMBAI: Going by the way Air India conducts its business, it's hard to believe that the airline is neck-deep in debt. At a time when India has hundreds of unemployed Commercial Pilot License (CPL) holders who are qualified to fly Boeing 737 aircraft, the airline is planning to recruit retired Indian Air Force pilots and spend about Rs 25 lakh to train each of them to fly Boeing 737s to absorb them into Air India Express.

What's worse is that a batch of about 30 pilots has been waiting to be absorbed as trainee co-pilots in Air India Express since the last one year. "These pilots have self-funded their Boeing 737 training. The airline will not have to spend time and money on their type-rating programme. This batch alone means a saving of about Rs 7.5 crore," said a source. A type-rating programme involves classroom and simulator training to enable a pilot to fly a particular aircraft type. "The shortlisted pilots had cleared interviews, simulator tests etc last October. But after that, there was no word from the airline," the source added. Air India Express has not filled any vacancies to the post of co-pilot since then.
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Old 4th Apr 2013, 09:08
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Anyone here on PPRuNe who is currently employed with AI Express??
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Old 4th Apr 2013, 18:16
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Gee, how do you stop attrition? How about you offer competitive wages, less politics and upward career mobility like most world-class airlines? I guess those are very hard to find in India and most of Asia... Let the attrition continue...
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Old 5th Apr 2013, 01:13
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instead of a cadet pilot programme to train ab-inito on 737NG & 320 under an MPL system.... the national airline plans to steal talent from the air force and there after leave the defence of the nation exposed..
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Old 5th Apr 2013, 10:17
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And going with the air force mentality , these guys won't be there for too long.Because the average IAF pilot feels he is too good for any airline so they will keep their CVs floating around and hope to get in where their cronies are.
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Old 5th Apr 2013, 15:48
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Hi Guys/Gals,
Let us slow down here a bit before we paint with too wide a brush.For years and years ex Air Force,Navy and other para military organizations have provided competent,skilled and well adjusted airline pilots.There is definitely a learning curve and there will be some big headed egotists that will never be successful in the civil environment.However, to label all the ex military guys as useless is ingenous at best and envious at worst.
I myself am an ex military pilot flying civil now and have friends all across the operational spectrum (Airlines, Charters, On- Demand, Helicopters Off Shore, EMS etc) on three continents and they are all dong just fine and are well repected in their fields and companies.
I would agree that the process should not be rushed and these guys need exposure to the civil flying world before being allowed to take the left seat.But anything beyond that is silly.
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Old 6th Apr 2013, 03:29
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Anyone with any info about the crew shortage they claim to have ever since they were operational?? Also any info on how many candidates applied for their latest advt for type rated capts, tri and tre?? Last time they had come out with an advertisement only 3 candidates applied!!
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Old 6th Apr 2013, 08:48
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Well adjusted is such a relative term.

I worked in an airline with a significant representation from the Armed Forces.

They carried over their ranking system and hierarchical attitudes from their previous lives and it spilled over into the civil world. And having been in a minority, we were constantly reminded about our inferiority in terms of 'discipline', knowledge and integrity.

So please forgive me if I say that your opinion is biased, just like mine.

We had a batch of ex AF guys who came in with a perceived natural right to the left seat. They all assumed 300-500 hours on the right and an automatic upgrade. Well, the vagaries of commercial flying slowly dawned upon them and the average time for their upgrade went as high as 2000 hours before a chance at an upgrade.

We had a bunch of guys who had a completely skewed view of CRM and it reflected in the way flights were conducted. You can counter by saying that there are isolated incidents, but this was the norm in my former airline. While I have never borne the brunt of an overzealous captain (maybe I'm blocking out scarred memories), my close friends recall tales of complete exclusion from the decision making process varying from being ignored to being bluntly told that first officers are only required due to regulatory requirements.

What you call silly is a stark reality for many pilots who did not have a military background.

But I digress.
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Old 6th Apr 2013, 13:17
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I certainly repect and appreciate your point of view and perspective.I am not here defending the military guy in general.I know,from past and present experience, that they can be douche bags.However, ,just as I don't write off all civilian colleagues of mine as incompetent,all I ask for is a little reciprocal courtesy from the other side as well .For every one incident which you can relate of an egotistic ex military guy, I am sure I can relate an equal amount of incidents where the miltary guys are actually pretty good at their new job.Or ,conversely, I can certainly relate experiences of a civilian trained guy acting like a moron.
Not defending the attitudes or individuals here.Just attempting to explain the mindset.For one,even the most stringent critics of the military aviators will admit that military training was far more stringent than the average flying club educated guy.With due respect to the departed soul, a guy like Capt Renslow (of Colgan Air notoriety) would never have made it through any miltary training program.Does that make the ex AF/Navy guys feel a little superior? Absolutely.Are they justified? For sure. Does that make them a great fit for the airlines all the time? Absolutely not.It is all about training and temperament.And how the new employers of these guys handle them is crucial.And maybe that is where the failure lies,be it in your former airline or in Air India.
CRM? Everyone thinks that CRM was invented by the airlines.Not true.CRM existed in the miltary long before the airlines got hold of it and gave it a fancy name.But, I digress too and, maybe, that is a discussion for another day on another thread.
For now,let us just agree that there are no absolutes in this argument.And,if AIX wants to hire ready -made pilots who are ex IAF /IN guys to fill their openings,maybe it is not such a bad idea after all.Of course, it leaves a lot of hard working civilian guys working to make it to an airline in the dust and that is where,I suspect, all this anti military rants stem from.
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Old 9th Apr 2013, 20:06
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Alouette3 , to be fair , I agree with your post.All , including yours truly , need to be more balanced in our criticism.From my experience the military pilots who are successful are the ones who have changed their mindset and attitudes to the different environment of civilian flying.However many of them still carry on with the "essential qualities" that they were taught in their previous lives which I call the "officer mentality" and the "complete pilot".Both can be very detrimental in civilian flying.It is interesting that you should mention the Colgan Air crash which had a female first officer.Many years ago , I happened to experience a training session with a female FO and an ex AF instructor.The FO to be very charitable , just about passed.And the instructor was extremely polite , courteous and cleared her with a warm handshake.While I did see him tear up a couple of young boys although some of these blokes were good.After the session , I happened to remark about how he let the female FO off lightly to which he replied , it is not becoming of an officer and a gentleman to be harsh on a woman.I felt like telling him , someday if she flew like that, she would write off an aircraft and a couple of lives.Wonder what will you say then.So it is not just limited to CRM but there is a broader context.But let me also say that I have met some of the finest aviators and people from military backgrounds.So at the end it is a mixed bag.You just have to make sure that you select the right people because if you don't you will write off an aircraft and also the morale of your fellow pilots in the company.
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Old 14th Apr 2013, 13:19
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Looks like they have managed to get a new person who will be the incharge of operations! Maybe things finally change..

Last edited by tolip111111; 14th Apr 2013 at 13:20.
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