CAAC medical centers and initial conversion process

[rovespier]

Hello everyone,

Heading to China the end of this month for my first time medical-ATPL etc screening and have some questions for all you experienced Chinese expats.

Any info on which of the centers is the best one to have your initial medical check? Rumour is that the Shanghai center is the most time consuming and strict one. Should I avoid it if I can choose to go to Shenzhen lets say?

Is there any progress with their medical, westernizing a bit the whole process, or should I expect a repetition of the regular horror stories posted in this forum?

Also, I have a minor scar from a (minimally invasive) varicose vain surgery in my low(lower than waist) abdomen.
Should I even mention it? Do they ask you to strip down completely to check for scars or just down to your underwear? I hate to go through tons of paperwork and tests for nothing, so I prefer to avoid even saying anything if they won't notice.

How long does it usually takes for their background checks(is it only CAA authentication they request) and working visa procedures after you get the job?
Can I provide any papers directly so as to speed things up?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[WYOMINGPILOT]

Heading to China the end of this month for my first time medical-ATPL etc screening and have some questions for all you experienced Chinese expats.

Any info on which of the centers is the best one to have your initial medical check? Rumour is that the Shanghai center is the most time consuming and strict one. Should I avoid it if I can choose to go to Shenzhen lets say? You don't have a choice. The region which governs your particular airline you are interviewing with will arrange everything for you, Shanghai is the same as all Regions, ie they are ALL VERY STRICT.

Is there any progress with their medical, westernizing a bit the whole process, or should I expect a repetition of the regular horror stories posted in this forum? No chance at any input on the process whatsoever. Monkey see, monkey do if you want to pass just comply. It is a complicated medical but after extra tests and additional testing most guys do pass. Most failues are heart problems ie EKG, blood pressure or blood work, urine sample problems ie sugar levels or kidney stones. If you can pass a first class medical and you have decent BP and height/weight ratio most guys from the west pass. The follow on medicals are not much easier and most Ex Pats sweat them evrey 6 months. A long term job security in China does NOT exist. The cash is great and the work is fairly decent but you are constantly being evaluated through medicals, sim checks, line checks, and QAR data.

Also, I have a minor scar from a (minimally invasive) varicose vain surgery in my low(lower than waist) abdomen.
Should I even mention it? Do they ask you to strip down completely to check for scars or just down to your underwear? I hate to go through tons of paperwork and tests for nothing, so I prefer to avoid even saying anything if they won't notice. Yes mention it as a full body strip down search is conducted. If you have tattoos it is viewed VERY unfavorable. It will be noticed.

How long does it usually takes for their background checks(is it only CAA authentication they request) and working visa procedures after you get the job? Background checks usually take about 1 month and the criminal background check will also take about 2-3 weeks. Airlines vary widely with the minimum being aout 3 months until line checked and the maximum about 1 year. Training pay is generally less than full line checked pay.
Can I provide any papers directly so as to speed things up? Stay on top of the process and don't assume anything or wait very long without following up on things. Many pilots have wasted months just waiting when the HR depts. were waiting on documents from the pilots. Be very proactive during the admin. newhire process or you will be waiting a long time without accomplishing anything. Overall China is a good gig and the pay is great and some fairly good commuting contracts out there. Long term though there is very little job security here. It is like running the gauntlet. Eventyually they will topple you so always have a Plan B.

[rovespier]

Thanks Wyomingpilot! Great info

[erbuscap]

Just glanced at the thread out of curiosity, I do not have personal experience with China

I do have a buddy that is flying there though and has a couple of tattoos so I am not sure about this "very unfavorable" remark, as well as the full body strip down search. Its hard to believe that they ask 40-50 year old pilots to take their underwear off to check them, for what?!?!?! Do they ask them to bend over to check for prostate too?
Even harder to believe that they actually do

Anyway, never heard of it from anyone but doesn't mean its not true.
I am sure some other members will tell us if it is just another urban(chinese) myth.
Funny though

I do agree with Wyo on mentioning it

[NoodleAir]

erbuscap, I don't think you have to worry.... no bending over for the medical in China (yet?)

Wyomingpilot don't scare the newcomers. Last time I checked nobody (from the CAAC) looked under my underwear for anything. Maybe when the contracts pay 30k/month they might get someone to accept it...

That said, if there was something serious done, they WILL probably find out from all the other exams they will put you through. So do declare it if you don't want to worry about it. Scars and tattoos are not what the average American-European should worry about anyway.

Besides, I think it is funny like you said, and I am sure many China veterans will drop by and share their experience about the "strip down" question, so rovespier will have something to read in the next few days.

Wyomingpilot is right. Try to stay on top of it, but don't try to understand their ways... I am not sure if it was USMCProbe or another forum member that said "F*** it, this is China..." but he was right. Most of the times makes no sense, but thats the way it is. You have to accept it or leave (or not try it at all)
3 months for background checks.... thats only because of incompetence and chinese procedures. Try 6 months line training for senior Captains on the same type! But of course its the training pay that makes sense, you still fly the same hours for them.

Good luck

[USMCProbe]

Wyoming speaks the truth, both good and bad.

Tattoos? I am not sure if this is a problem. But guess what? In China it might be up to the individuals' opinion that is giving you your exam that day. And he probably has little or no training. Maybe he will flip a coin?

Scars? You may need a doctors note on any big scars, especially if it looks like it was sewed up. It will be cheaper for you to get a note before you come, than have to fly back home to get one. They want to know what was done/fixed/broken.

From February to August this year, out of 14 expats at my airline, one lost his job due to a BS medical test, 3 have lost an average of 2 months pay, plus paying for additional medical tests/procedures, attempting to comply with CAAC medical, and one is still out of work due to a minor "infraction".

All in 6 months.

i got lucky, finished my contract, and left. It was a great job. Best flying and schedules I will ever get probably. The company went out of their way to treat us well. But at the end of the day I felt like I was dodging the CAAC frag pattern. They were alway heaving a different grenade every couple of months. I made it out alive and well.

[pilotss2001]

Agreed.

Getting your CAAC medical is only half the battle.

Retaining your CAAC medical is the other half. And new tests seem to keep coming every time some incident happens in the cockpit.

As I spend more time here in China I get to see more of the inner workings. The relationship of your airline with the CAAC medical technicians and the CAAC regional examiner are very important. Some things can slide and other no.

If you test poorly you can retest again and again and other items you can only test bad once. There are many false positive test results. And some tests just aren't administered correctly. Take the 24 heart monitor test. I f you blow an EKG like I did because a one of the main adapters fell off in the test then you must wear a 24 hour heart monitor. You are supposed to get a paper and write down all your activities on this paper. If you exercised between 18-19:00 or had sex between 21:00-22:00. This activity influences your heart rate and is accounted for....except in China. You are to sit in your room for 24 hours and do nothing. Don't even use the stairs. I dropped something on my foot and my heart rate went up. The tech asked what happened at 7pm, it looks like you have a heart problem. I injured myself I told them. Oh, that's no good, retest. These are not doctors by the way just technicians. The CAAC doctor reviews the info later.

Another friend in Chengdu was told he had too much plaque in his heart only to be told by his physician he couldn't find anything. Another was told either epilepsy or cancer from a brain scan only to be told he was fine back home. A new test of a Cartoid Artery sonogram is now apart of the many tests and can require surgery if you want to keep your job. Another person had taken Anti-Malaria meds which influence EKGs and the doctor even when given the information about the medicine did not believe it the writing on the package. Another personal friend was tested for diabetes only to be told he was ok then next day and a similar friend with HepB. Another friend was told he had a growth in his lung and they wanted to make a biopsy. Even with letters from Chinese oncologists stating it was normal they still demanded a biopsy.

CAAC medicals are ridiculous. They befuddle even the real Chinese doctors.

Remember this and compare to your home country. Every six months a bigger risk here. This doesn't even include the politics of the CAAC.