JET DOWNSIZING??
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JET DOWNSIZING??
Afriend of mine just told me he got laid off as of may 14th, airline claiming that its reducing it fleet and laying off some ex-pats.
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Sounds about right.. Jet is heading into a financial crisis. Strong competition in the domestic sector and the fact they pay all large expenses in USD is really hurting them.
IndiGo is doing very well a more stable and smarter buisness model.
IndiGo is doing very well a more stable and smarter buisness model.
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NO WAY
Jet has been massively recruiting for all fleets.
Recently advertised looking for A330 and 777 captains.
This hardly can be downsizing.
Recently advertised looking for A330 and 777 captains.
This hardly can be downsizing.
Last edited by fullforward; 14th May 2012 at 00:25.
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Fullforward,
I guess you did not read what the CEO had to say? He confirmed in writing that all expat recruitment is suspended indefinitely as they try and get a handle on dollar expenses that are bleeding them dry.
This is also the reason why salarys are being delayed.
Don't forget the last time Jet had money troubles they dropped the expats like a hot potato... Then a short while later the head honcho was personally calling 777 drivers in the states to see if they would operate flights... As the local hero's SWIP had gone on strike.
I guess you did not read what the CEO had to say? He confirmed in writing that all expat recruitment is suspended indefinitely as they try and get a handle on dollar expenses that are bleeding them dry.
This is also the reason why salarys are being delayed.
Don't forget the last time Jet had money troubles they dropped the expats like a hot potato... Then a short while later the head honcho was personally calling 777 drivers in the states to see if they would operate flights... As the local hero's SWIP had gone on strike.
Last edited by PT6A; 14th May 2012 at 01:41.
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CEO
No access do CEO anouncements.
It simply doesn't make any sense: one week recruiting like crazy, all agencies and fleets, the following week (literally) pressing the panic button!
If true, not exactly a sound business plan. Looks like there's a lot of heads knocking at the office...
BTW, started advertising for 777 skippers on last 10 May, just 4 days ago!
It simply doesn't make any sense: one week recruiting like crazy, all agencies and fleets, the following week (literally) pressing the panic button!
If true, not exactly a sound business plan. Looks like there's a lot of heads knocking at the office...
BTW, started advertising for 777 skippers on last 10 May, just 4 days ago!
Last edited by fullforward; 14th May 2012 at 02:41.
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A chap on TMU received a letter of termination the other day
. Not a nice way to be terminated.... especially when set to return to BLR IAM. Start updating to CVs boys and girls.
During a conversation with a national pilot, a friend of mine, also an expat, put the purpose of the “EXPAT” in its proper perspective. We are not here to take jobs away from anyone. Your airline is in the business of making money. In accordance with both the DGCA and company management, qualified crews are required to operate the equipment. While there may be a plethora of first officers, there is a shortage of qualified commanders. As F/Os attain their command, the need for expats will diminish. I thought this explanation regarding the purpose of Expats was very mature, factual, eloquent and non-debatable.
Jet, along with other private Indian carriers are feeling the financial pinch from both the DGCA and Central Government. They want to see the private carriers disappear.
With the exchange rate between the Rupee and USD is in such a state, the cost for expats has increased by some 21% over the past two years.
In order to counter the increased cost of expat crews, some carriers have resorted to hiring retiring Indian Air Force pilots for DEC positions in the ATR, B737 and Q-400.
At the end of the day expats need to realize the days of being indispensible are over in parts of Asia. Your next flight with your foreign carrier carrier may be your very last one at that. That's the reality check I've lived with for the past 22 years of being an expat. The decisions made by management is strictly business… and not personal. That's another bit of reality check I've reminded myself about too.
On the flip side of the coin, how many expats, are not constantly looking for better opportunities, QOL, pay, or whatever, elsewhere??? even if life is okay where they are?
. Not a nice way to be terminated.... especially when set to return to BLR IAM. Start updating to CVs boys and girls.During a conversation with a national pilot, a friend of mine, also an expat, put the purpose of the “EXPAT” in its proper perspective. We are not here to take jobs away from anyone. Your airline is in the business of making money. In accordance with both the DGCA and company management, qualified crews are required to operate the equipment. While there may be a plethora of first officers, there is a shortage of qualified commanders. As F/Os attain their command, the need for expats will diminish. I thought this explanation regarding the purpose of Expats was very mature, factual, eloquent and non-debatable.
Jet, along with other private Indian carriers are feeling the financial pinch from both the DGCA and Central Government. They want to see the private carriers disappear.
With the exchange rate between the Rupee and USD is in such a state, the cost for expats has increased by some 21% over the past two years.
In order to counter the increased cost of expat crews, some carriers have resorted to hiring retiring Indian Air Force pilots for DEC positions in the ATR, B737 and Q-400.
At the end of the day expats need to realize the days of being indispensible are over in parts of Asia. Your next flight with your foreign carrier carrier may be your very last one at that. That's the reality check I've lived with for the past 22 years of being an expat. The decisions made by management is strictly business… and not personal. That's another bit of reality check I've reminded myself about too.
On the flip side of the coin, how many expats, are not constantly looking for better opportunities, QOL, pay, or whatever, elsewhere??? even if life is okay where they are?
Last edited by captjns; 14th May 2012 at 04:24.
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This is exactly what Jet did the last time around... Then when SWIP went on their strike were begging guys to come back.
They are hurting big time for money, because everything is paid in USD so the currency fluctuations are hurting.
That then takes any profit out of their normal operations.
They are hurting big time for money, because everything is paid in USD so the currency fluctuations are hurting.
That then takes any profit out of their normal operations.
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The grape vine is a rumbling that more than 10 expats may be let go
, as Jet has hired Direct Entry Captains from the Indian Air Force besides former KF skippers too.
, as Jet has hired Direct Entry Captains from the Indian Air Force besides former KF skippers too.
Last edited by captjns; 15th May 2012 at 01:49.
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Again...
...Jet advertised 4 days (!) ago on Parc Aviation website looking for 777 skippers!
Few weeks earlier for A330 and 737.
What the heck?
Then they press the panic button.
Who's actually ruling JET?
Rupee has losing against the dollar since almost 1 year ago.
So only now they realize that expats are an expensive luxury?
Looks like it isn't exactly a truly consistent business plan.
As for taking AF retirees to make them airline captains, it's a costly, time demanding and difficult task for several reasons. Including cultural ones.
Few weeks earlier for A330 and 737.
What the heck?
Then they press the panic button.
Who's actually ruling JET?
Rupee has losing against the dollar since almost 1 year ago.
So only now they realize that expats are an expensive luxury?
Looks like it isn't exactly a truly consistent business plan.
As for taking AF retirees to make them airline captains, it's a costly, time demanding and difficult task for several reasons. Including cultural ones.
Last edited by fullforward; 15th May 2012 at 03:30.
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Jet is letting go all Temporarily Medically Unfit and Leave Without Pay pilots.
They are also hiring King Fisher Skippers.
They seem to feel that expats are expensive and difficult to work with
It is hard to argue with that sometimes.
That being said, exactly how fast can they transition these new people in place? Refreshers. FATA's, Sim rides. Not to mention that they still have to keep their current crop of pilots current. A few more opening in the BKK sim because of the KF cutbacks but still not enough to put in more then 60 captains on overnight.
I've heard they don't have enough pilots...then I've heard they are cutting back to what pilots they actually have. But somehow, the answer isn't to get MORE pilots. Well, I guess they are from the AF and KF. But it won't do them much good. And firing every expat won't solve their problems.
Why isn't the answer ever charging the passenger more?
So, our days are numbered I think. Until they suddenly want to expand again. A significant problem is their aspiring pilots don't want to be stuck in an ATR even in the Left Seat, so replacing them is going to be dependent on the KF crowd.
I could be whistling past the graveyard, but I see another year or so for the expats at Jet.
They are also hiring King Fisher Skippers.
They seem to feel that expats are expensive and difficult to work with
It is hard to argue with that sometimes.
That being said, exactly how fast can they transition these new people in place? Refreshers. FATA's, Sim rides. Not to mention that they still have to keep their current crop of pilots current. A few more opening in the BKK sim because of the KF cutbacks but still not enough to put in more then 60 captains on overnight.
I've heard they don't have enough pilots...then I've heard they are cutting back to what pilots they actually have. But somehow, the answer isn't to get MORE pilots. Well, I guess they are from the AF and KF. But it won't do them much good. And firing every expat won't solve their problems.
Why isn't the answer ever charging the passenger more?
So, our days are numbered I think. Until they suddenly want to expand again. A significant problem is their aspiring pilots don't want to be stuck in an ATR even in the Left Seat, so replacing them is going to be dependent on the KF crowd.
I could be whistling past the graveyard, but I see another year or so for the expats at Jet.
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Jet CEO letter is a repeat of sorts from previous letter stating urgency to continue with cost cutting measures and closure of unproductive sectors. These actions will continue until the airline is restored to profitability. No mention of any hiring/firing although normal attrition transpiring especially on 330 fleet with many expats reaching retirement age. There is still some recruiting taking place on the wide body fleets.
Pilot salaries arrived into bank accounts today, company stated a while back that pilot pay would be delayed until the 15th for some time.
Pilot salaries arrived into bank accounts today, company stated a while back that pilot pay would be delayed until the 15th for some time.
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Dragon all expat recruitment has stopped. This was confirmed by a press statement in the Indian press by Jet Airways CEO. In short they are cutting back on everything that is in USD including expats.
Jet are getting hit on all sides, in the domestic by IndiGo, international by the Middle East and European Carriers. Then the currency fluctuations.
To cap it all of they operate in one of the words most corrupt and inefficient countries.... No wonder they struggle!
"Nikos Kardassis, chief executive officer, said: "We are freezing all non-rupee expenses, including those on hiring of expat pilots and foreign advertising."
Alongside the depreciating rupee, passenger numbers on Indian airlines have dropped due to tougher competition from budget airlines.
One expat pilot, who recently left India after a four-year stint working for Kingfisher Airlines, said: "Indian airlines have a pretty bad reputation for surly service, flight delays and for going on strike over wages. It is a hard environment to work in as a foreign pilot and many feel justified in asking for higher salaries.
"The Indian airline industry is in crisis at the moment so it needs to think of ways to save money but I don't think axing foreign pilots is the answer. India needs to invest money in building up its carriers so they become national symbols of good service and flying."
He pointed to Singapore Airlines, Emirates and Qatar Airlines as world-class national carriers that have global reputations and are profit-making."
Jet are getting hit on all sides, in the domestic by IndiGo, international by the Middle East and European Carriers. Then the currency fluctuations.
To cap it all of they operate in one of the words most corrupt and inefficient countries.... No wonder they struggle!
"Nikos Kardassis, chief executive officer, said: "We are freezing all non-rupee expenses, including those on hiring of expat pilots and foreign advertising."
Alongside the depreciating rupee, passenger numbers on Indian airlines have dropped due to tougher competition from budget airlines.
One expat pilot, who recently left India after a four-year stint working for Kingfisher Airlines, said: "Indian airlines have a pretty bad reputation for surly service, flight delays and for going on strike over wages. It is a hard environment to work in as a foreign pilot and many feel justified in asking for higher salaries.
"The Indian airline industry is in crisis at the moment so it needs to think of ways to save money but I don't think axing foreign pilots is the answer. India needs to invest money in building up its carriers so they become national symbols of good service and flying."
He pointed to Singapore Airlines, Emirates and Qatar Airlines as world-class national carriers that have global reputations and are profit-making."
Last edited by PT6A; 15th May 2012 at 12:22.
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Botom line
It doesn't seems that India is really interested in having a world class air transport industry.
The government bleed mercilessly a carrier that could be the pride of India, like Jet Airways, in favor of the unseless mamouth Air India.
For a fraction of the fresh cash put to 'save' AI from time to time Jet Airways could be a model company, highly profitable, with excelent services and the highest standards.
Jet doesn't seems to help much, as there are some administrative nightmares on all fronts. Some huge waste of money, like hiring a number of expats, paying salaries, hotels BEFORE submiting them to an adequate medical.
Some of them coudn't even fly for the company after 6 or more months of paperworking, medical issues etc!
But the expat issue doens't represent more than 0,1% of current company losses.
Indian government itself is the biggest enemy of local air transport industry.
The government bleed mercilessly a carrier that could be the pride of India, like Jet Airways, in favor of the unseless mamouth Air India.
For a fraction of the fresh cash put to 'save' AI from time to time Jet Airways could be a model company, highly profitable, with excelent services and the highest standards.
Jet doesn't seems to help much, as there are some administrative nightmares on all fronts. Some huge waste of money, like hiring a number of expats, paying salaries, hotels BEFORE submiting them to an adequate medical.
Some of them coudn't even fly for the company after 6 or more months of paperworking, medical issues etc!
But the expat issue doens't represent more than 0,1% of current company losses.
Indian government itself is the biggest enemy of local air transport industry.
Last edited by fullforward; 15th May 2012 at 12:51.
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The news that Jet terminating expats, without notice, is spreading amongst the expats quite rapidly.
Last year, Jet Airways made an unprecedented gesture to provide pilots declared medically unfit by IAM BLR with TMU pay for upwards of 12 months. Several months after the arrangement was amended to provide 6 months of TMU pay followed by 6 months of unpaid leave.
We all know that Jet Airways, as any other airline, has the right to terminate their relationship with their pilots with adequate notice. However, new is, over the past two days, is that in the most recent cases, there was only 2 days notice given to those who were terminated.
I wonder how many expats, not only at Jet, but perhaps at Indigo, and Spice are taking Pre-emptive measures to ensure their minimal periods of unemployment should their contracts be terminated without notice?
In response to Dragon 83, it probably would not be appropriate for the CEO to cover the topic of termination of employees' contracts in his announcement to employees.
Three Airbus DECs who were assessed in January received notices that essentially hiring of expats has been put on hold indefinitely until such time the financial situation along with the value of the rupee improves. This is not a witch hunt against expats, but rather strictly a business decision.
The dynamics within the aviation industry in India will prove to be very interesting to say the least. Good luck to all during these difficult times.
Last year, Jet Airways made an unprecedented gesture to provide pilots declared medically unfit by IAM BLR with TMU pay for upwards of 12 months. Several months after the arrangement was amended to provide 6 months of TMU pay followed by 6 months of unpaid leave.
We all know that Jet Airways, as any other airline, has the right to terminate their relationship with their pilots with adequate notice. However, new is, over the past two days, is that in the most recent cases, there was only 2 days notice given to those who were terminated.
I wonder how many expats, not only at Jet, but perhaps at Indigo, and Spice are taking Pre-emptive measures to ensure their minimal periods of unemployment should their contracts be terminated without notice?
In response to Dragon 83, it probably would not be appropriate for the CEO to cover the topic of termination of employees' contracts in his announcement to employees.
Three Airbus DECs who were assessed in January received notices that essentially hiring of expats has been put on hold indefinitely until such time the financial situation along with the value of the rupee improves. This is not a witch hunt against expats, but rather strictly a business decision.
The dynamics within the aviation industry in India will prove to be very interesting to say the least. Good luck to all during these difficult times.
Last edited by captjns; 15th May 2012 at 13:48.
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Originally Posted by captjns
The news that Jet terminating expats, without notice, is spreading amongst the expats quite rapidly.
), so I'm at least hopeful. When one door closes ... 
I was paid today, which is a really good sign.
Last edited by Rotorhead1026; 15th May 2012 at 19:17.
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So far, Jet has, and IMO will continue to abide by their contractual obligations be they financial or otherwise... even if they feel it necessary to terminate their relationship with an employee or a group of employees.
I don't know of any other carrier in India providing TMU pay. That's real class
. Out of curiosity, how about Spice or Indigo??? TMU pay?
Last year, I witnessed the manager of the expat cell talking to a prospective employer, going to bat for a former employee of Jet. He's a descent good, man and has always given me straight answers to straight questions . Would the expat manager at Spice or Indigo help out former employees?
IMHO, Jet wants to do the right thing, as best as they possibly can under their circumstances. Does Spice or Indigo? I ask this question, not to raise anyone's dander, but to get a prospective on life and company support from other carriers in India
As cited before, contract pilots are on station, no matter the airline, for a temporary period. Over the years, as an expat, I've always been on station for the duration of the contract. That said, no matter the airline, or location, in most cases when contract is terminated by the airline for reasons without cause, before it's maturation, its strictly business and nothing personal.
I don't know of any other carrier in India providing TMU pay. That's real class
. Out of curiosity, how about Spice or Indigo??? TMU pay?Last year, I witnessed the manager of the expat cell talking to a prospective employer, going to bat for a former employee of Jet
. He's a descent good, man and has always given me straight answers to straight questions . Would the expat manager at Spice or Indigo help out former employees?IMHO, Jet wants to do the right thing, as best as they possibly can under their circumstances. Does Spice or Indigo? I ask this question, not to raise anyone's dander, but to get a prospective on life and company support from other carriers in India
As cited before, contract pilots are on station, no matter the airline, for a temporary period. Over the years, as an expat, I've always been on station for the duration of the contract. That said, no matter the airline, or location, in most cases when contract is terminated by the airline for reasons without cause, before it's maturation, its strictly business and nothing personal.
Last edited by captjns; 16th May 2012 at 01:39.
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yes, I quite agree that KM in Jet is a gem, and always out to help the pilots.
Jet is simply not getting anyone to come with their terms and conditions.
unfortunately, the board of directors are a bunch of amateurish idiots, who simply do not have the brains and class to run an international airline. Goyal is walking a tightrope in trying to please the 737 guys, who scream expat at the slightest, public opinion on just about everything, and a government whose only concern is their votebank and pockets.
the DGCA clowns, were a factor, but it appears that with fresh young blood coming in, the days of those who cannot read or write there are numbered.
now how does one make a profit with such thin margins and a sky rocketing fuel price ??
blame the expat, and make everyone happy as usual. you can buy time till the next episode.
the bottom line is, stay away from India, if logic and common sense are your prevail. its only money, votes, connections, emotions, and egos which count.
Jet is simply not getting anyone to come with their terms and conditions.
unfortunately, the board of directors are a bunch of amateurish idiots, who simply do not have the brains and class to run an international airline. Goyal is walking a tightrope in trying to please the 737 guys, who scream expat at the slightest, public opinion on just about everything, and a government whose only concern is their votebank and pockets.
the DGCA clowns, were a factor, but it appears that with fresh young blood coming in, the days of those who cannot read or write there are numbered.
now how does one make a profit with such thin margins and a sky rocketing fuel price ??
blame the expat, and make everyone happy as usual. you can buy time till the next episode.
the bottom line is, stay away from India, if logic and common sense are your prevail. its only money, votes, connections, emotions, and egos which count.
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Many of us expats, maybe all, got the email today. Termination of contract with 3 months notice.
Was great while it lasted.
Onwards and upwards to the next adventure.
Was great while it lasted.
Onwards and upwards to the next adventure.
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First of all... good luck to you as there are still opportunities out there at most carriers if you are under 55.
How long have you been with Jet, and which equipment were you flying?
How long have you been with Jet, and which equipment were you flying?