Susi Air 5 dead in 9 months

[PT6A]

In view of the extensive threads on this forum regarding SUSI Air and their illegal activities, is anyone surprised that this company has now suffered fatal accidents?

It never ceases to amaze me that on a multiple thread about an airline conducting things illegally, pilots being ripped off etc etc

We still get people asking are they hiring

[MartinCh]

It's sad to hear of another fatal accident in Indonesia.

Most of the idiotic comments coming from all the pseudo-experts suggest they didn't even bother reading about the previous two accidents and the underlying causes/factors.

Else they'd not be spouting all this bull**** about whether company should be closed because of the calendar spread of events or other reason, or no SMS etc.
Load of bollocks.

September crash - (my friend Tomas perished in it) is weather/CFIT/loss of control related. There are some insiders who know more. The weather after the departure wasn't good. You can call it human error if you want. Or something very close.

The second one with Spanish pilot dead and the other guy injured - that one was due to someone crossing runway when they were about to touch down and the resulting go-around wasn't successful, considering the timing and the area/obstacles etc.

This one, as the message to office shows, is mechanical (rare enough for those great machines) and the terrain/options were less than favourable if the pilot couldn't put it down safely.

When Tomas did his training, from the FB pictures and his 'intake' fellow pilots, NONE of them was FRESH CPL holder. They all did some sort of GA flying, including Tomas. I'm not saying Susi Air didn't hire 200/250hr bods, but they don't go on fly single pilot in Pilatus nor in Caravan (which is two pilot ops).

SP479 is right. We can all browse past Indo accidents/crashes where more than just bad luck played significant factor/cause leading to the crash.
So all this BS about shutting down 'dangerous' operations of Susi because of no safety practices etc, is rubbish.

Why does Susi hire American/Aussie/NZ/European pilots? So that they can avoid the unnecessary accidents parallel to other Indo ones. Sure, there are other factors, but let's not get into mud slinging related to nationality/origin of certain Asian pilots.

L4L - again, right. There are pilots who aren't excited about flying big iron on autopilot doing similar or same thing, nothing demanding or challenging. True, Indonesian strips or places they go to are way more than ordinary bush flying and that carries inherent level of risk.

I'm very disappointed that those mindless *contributors* ( ) pretend to know-it-all and are totally oblivious to reality of life, living in their own little virtual life, yet posting all this.

[PT6A]

Martin,

You seem to know about SUSI.

Claims have been made on this website about pilots working illegally at SUSI.. without work permits / correct visa etc.

Are these alligations still valid and true today?

[VarigMD11]

I work at Susi and have been here less than a year. I have KITAS (work permit) and security clearance, all paid by the company. I am 100% legal to live and work in Indonesia. I am happy with what I do and have met some great people here and done some amazing flying. It is definately experience worth taking with you further on in your career and something that the P2F wannabee "shiny jet syndrome" kids will never have.

[MartinCh]

maesaithwameh,
where in my post am I worried about the possible end of ops of Susi? I don't really and concur on your take on things. There isn't enough local pilots for Indo airlines growth, regardless of the accident or ops safety notoriety of some. Exactly as you said. People wouldn't bother doing bush flying on singles if they can get/wait for job with big stuff.

same as Botswana GA, but that's thread drift. An example. Maun operators needing expats as they need people with skills, work ethic, willing to fly the small aircraft.

What my *rant* post was about is that some posters pretend to know it all and make sweeping bollocks assumptions and verdicts. If gross negligence, poor crew training and blatant disregard of safe procedures and operations were grounds for ceasing operations as per Aviation Authority's order, maybe Travira and very few others would still be running. But that's my guess, not stating fact.

[training wheels]

Travira and very few others would still be running.

Are you sure? Travira is one of the better charter operators in Indonesia and highly regarded over here for their high standards. Perhaps you mean Trigana?

[diddly squat]

Yeah, you picked a bad one to highlight in the above post, they are actually pretty good compared to the rest. Well cashed up and they spend the money on safety related stuff as well and they pay almost on time and they pay the Van drivers over three times more than Susi Air pay their Van drivers.... but do not worry, plenty more out there you could pick !!!!!

Message for U.S. Citizens: Indonesia, Safety Concerns with Susi Air

Due to aviation safety concerns, U.S. Mission Indonesia informs U.S. citizens traveling to or residing in Indonesia that effective immediately, and until further notice, U.S. Embassy personnel are prohibited from flying on Susi Air. Susi Air has suffered three fatal plane crashes in the last 12 months in Indonesia.
4-May-2012

https://www.osac.gov/pages/ContentRe...aspx?cid=12432

Sources close to the Mission have told me that many of the Susi Air Management have been visiting over the last couple of days begging for them to lift the bann, saying it is bad for business.

[rampstalker]

industry knockers

yes I agree with your sentiments, a lot of people throwing mud at the wall and not really knowing the facts behind each and every incident.
Yes its very sad that an accident takes place and there is loss of life, but having had first hand experience of the operation at Susi I can say very honestly that cowboy attitudes there are in a very small minority that gets shouted down by the majority. Ive taken quite a few flights with Susi and have got to know some of the flight crews. How do I rate them compared to the smooth Boeing type jockeys, a cut above really. More down to earth in the approuch to the job from supervising and ensuring the load is correctly manifested to distubuted to match the MAC. Weather radar is used and safe route chosen. THAT comes down to training.
And Ive been in some very turbulant weather on route to Halim too. But then again a recent flight by a middle east airline on an A330 last month was more than a white knuckle ride. I was wondering if the captain knew how to turn on the weather radar and vector away.

Yes there are some young green freshers in Susi, some with very low hours. but build the HOURS and complete a structured course and the youngsters can learn in an enviroment not available during procedural flying of an A320 or an NG.

It was sad to learn of yet another accident but lets not bury the airline with out a proper investigation or publication of the real facts. Its a tough flying enviroment in some of the places these guys fly lets not forget that but I do know that until the hours on type have been gained and the guys have been checked out then they will not be let loose on certain routes or flight paterns.

[infrequent_flyer]

Susi's Crocodile Tears

Whether Susi told the media that she was considering closing the outfit down or not does not seem to have made it to Nusawiru where on the day of the crash 26 April and for several days afterwards. The Van PK-BVB was circling at low altitude as always. Susi reported that the fuel system of the Porter in East Kalimantan was being considered as the source of the trouble. Correct us if we are wrong, if a fuel system for a PT-6 in a Porter is suspect, might that not also make the fuel system in a Van also equipped with a PT-6 also suspect?

Earlier on TV coverage of the Sukhoi crash, Indonesian aviation expert, Alvin Lie, said that the area for training flights is around Pelabuhan Ratu. This was confirmed by Indonesian ATC Chief I Ketut Susila. So why are Susi Air planes still doing their stupid circles over Cijulang?

BTW, one Brazilian might have his documents in order but Kantor Imigrasi Ciawi confirms that most of the pilots stopping in at Susi's digs in Pangandaran DO NOT! Just go and ask them. Our people always do because we're pissed off with the way that Susi and her family keep flouting all the rules. Her daughter, Nadine, did an illegal flight in a Van from Nusawiru to LanUD Tasikmalaya just to extend her visa! And her son, Hilman, did a full southern Asia tour to Taiwan and HK in a Van carrying Rp 4 billion in cash (what for if not to shop for illegal substances for which he has been arrested in Indonesia numerous times before being bailed out by Mom...?)

Susi Air has done 3 Sukhoi's but the media just skimmed over things in our opinion.

IF

[MartinCh]

If gross negligence, poor crew training and blatant disregard of safe procedures and operations were grounds for ceasing operations as per Aviation Authority's order, maybe Travira and very few others would still be running.

TW, that was picked out of context. The sentence above uses 2nd conditional (example) and the main and subordinate clauses are different. Anyway, must use simpler English and shorter sentences next time.

I meant to say that if safety disregard and negligence were reasons for grounding airline/charter company, then very few would STILL be running, if enforced, including for example Travira. As one of the better/good ones.

RE: PT6 and fuel issues. It isn't known (at least for us) which part of the fuel system.
I doubt it was directly in the engine itself and forward of the firewall. The PT6 has pretty good track record if maintained properly and not abused or FOD damage to it. The fact both Porter and Van share same line of PT6 powerplant, doesn't automatically mean grounding Caravans. True, fuel distribution in light singles isn't as complicated as airliners, but some freak cause did happen in this case indeed.

[rotatejunkie]

Here we go again!

infrequent_flyer is back online! Lol

[diddly squat]

It was reported that Susi Air grounded their Porter Fleet following their last fatal crash.

Anyone know what they found in their internal investigations (inspections) on the other PC6's?

[Ejector]

Anyone know if Susi is currently hiring? I have 423hrs PIC on the Van and I want to head to Asia for a few years. Get in on some of the local action.

Anyone one know the name of the CP there? I see some old CP ads in Oz last years as I have been looking around Google.

Do they provide a house to live?
Any idea about van wages?


Thank you in advance.

[wessel_words]

I believe there were some quiet experienced and qualified people, who pitched up last year, for an interview for the CP's job. Never heard if any were taken on as the CP.

[TheRedBaron01]

Don't know about internal investigations, but the initial report from the Indonesian authorities said there was no evidence of fuel in the main tanks. There was fuel in the aux tanks I believe, and the pilot was trying to pump those into the mains. Even if there was a problem (pumps inop) getting the fuel into the mains, why didn't he realize it before it was too late? I have to think fatigue was a big factor, as he was 5 hours into a survey flight, at the end of the day, and I know those survey flights are mentally draining. It's like flying an ILS for 5 hours straight. Very sad, especially when you see how close he was to making the road.

[fjordflyer]

Does anyone have a link to the report in the opening post of this thread?

from Susi Air Indonesia Crash 2012 Porter PC6 | General rants and raves

Summary Of the Noted Report – Susi Air
Dated 5th January 2012
Recommendation 1: “It is clear that Susi Air does not have the required personnel under Part 135. It has names on paper but no actual person fulfilling the duties of the post. As such Susi Air is not fit to hold an AOC under the terms of Part 135.”
Recommendation 2: “That the only course of action is to suspend operation of Susi Air until all required post holders are recruited and put in place with full authority to act as necessary. This action would put people who actually know what they are doing in charge and by doing so would address a large part of the problem at Susi Air.”
Recommendation 3: “The senior management both expat and local are not fit to run this operation. The experience level is too low and the courage and ability to make decisions is totally lacking. I see no single person below the position of Director of Operations who has not succumbed to the fear culture of Susi Air installed by the CEO and the Director of Operations. They are all afraid to stand up and be counted because they all know that to do so will see their departure from the organisation”
Recommendation 4: Goes on quoting the Susu Air HR Manager “IM” (name censored as this is a summary about the company more than individuals), saying, “that we do have named post holders”. When the HR manager was asked, where is the Susi Air Chief Inspector, the answer was, “in Jakarta in Rehab”. The Susi Air Chief Inspector, Mr “PH” is a drug addict and certainly not a fit and proper person for that position. Again, just another name of paper.
His AMEL # 5676 according to company records expired in June 2011. He has no recent experience of aircraft maintenance work. According to the Company Maintenance Manual his functions include, quality audit, quality control functions, including maintenance and material inspection, he is also responsible for administering the safety program.”
The report suggest that this person is incapable of any of the above functions under normal circumstances.
“This raises the question of why do the DGAC all Susi Air’s co-founder and director of operations allow this? The answer is clear the DGCA have no authority over this operation.” [My Bold]
Recommendation 5: “In terms of engineering Susi Air does not have an active quality department.” Goes on with details of “elusive” people and lack of training.
Recommendation 6: “There is no safety manager and therefore no oversight of the safety of the Susi Air operation. Again there are names on pieces of paper. However names on paper are worthless. Once again the DGCA turn a blind eye to these critical posts being unattended.”
Recommendation 7: “Chief pilot fixed wing “AH” is a local line pilot. He may not actually know that he is the named chief pilot. He has no physical office. He has no control over SOP’s or the dangerous goods manual. He is in fact flying in Kalimantan and has been for some months. In the COM his job description states he is responsible for managing and controlling fixed wing aircraft crew members and maintaining safe, professional flight standards. This must be difficult if not impossible while flying in Kalimantan. He is another totally ineffective person.”
Recommendation 8: “The DGCA appear to be unaware of this. The oversight of Susi Air by this authority is totally lacking and totally unacceptable. This lack of oversight is risking the loss of innocent life.”
Recommendation 9: Goes on in detail regarding how many engineering training certificates are suspect with graphic details.
Recommendation 10: Following up the above recommendation, the courses proposed are not in English for English speaking expat qualified staff bought in.
Recommendation 11: Related to the above two issues, stating the Susi Air CEO will not approve the budget for a person to full fill that role to be employed.
Recommendation 12: “Susi Air has issued some certificates for a very questionable PC 6 Porter Type Course in 2011. My understanding is that the instructor had never worked on a Porter PC6 or done an approved course.” Single Engine aircraft operating in harsh terrain.
Recommendation 13: “The bottom line is with seriously lacking training records I am not able to confirm how many engineers at Susi Air are legally able to release to service. The Chief Inspector is not.“
Recommendation 14: Goes on to talk about poorly equipped training rooms for flight operations.
“The room is ill equipped and a health and safety hazard. In any normal circumstance it would not be considered fit to use as a classroom. The situation regarding any training at Susi Air is nothing like normal”
Recommendation 15: Is very long, discussing observations of aircraft ground crew that are not legal, with out training, a power struggle between departments who control them, regularly carrying dangerous goods and the staff not trained and certified to do so. Goes on to talk about a recent incompetence example of a aircraft being refuelled with a large amount of water and suspected lack of proper reporting of accidents and incidences.
Recommendation 16: Questioning the viability of an additional 10 proposed routes as the company rapidly expands.
Recommendation 17: Discuses marginal flight safety ad lack of organisational structure.
Recommendation 18: Discuses the high risk of the 3rd accident.
Recommendation 19: “Up to now Susi Air has lost the life of 3 pilots, destroyed the career of a fourth and totally written off 2 hulls, this in the space of just 75 days. I have not seen a single piece of paper referring to an accident investigation for either incident. The DGCA seem to have been silent apparently not checking personnel records or aircraft maintenance logs. The two incidents have been swept away leaving the organisation and the DGAC no wiser as to where and when the next fatality will occur. Nothing has been learned by implementing the company safety Management System”
Recommendation 20: “The Susi Air Safety Management system is totally dysfunctional. It should have been used as a tool to aid the organisation in learning from the mistakes which led to the loss of two aircraft.” Investigations indicate, “Instead it has been left sitting on a shelf where it has been since February of 2009 gathering dust.”
Recommendation 21: “Susi Air is operating its engines on an extended life cycle, based on regular Engine trend monitoring. Investigations revealed that Susi Air Human Recourse Department refused to pay the salary for a qualified person to do the engine trend monitoring as a consequence Engine trend monitoring is currently not being done. Susi Air has yet to advertise for this very important function to be filled. The risk of a single engine failure is increasing with every hour flown. As this is a single engine operator the risk of a forced landing and all of its associated consequences is also increasing.”
Recommendation 22: “All of the above leaves me believing that Susi Air has no choice but to cease operation at least temporarily.” This would be a problem as the company is already late paying wages to some expats and bills, the result would be almost bankruptcy. Just ask some of the like creditors like Pacific Aero who it was well known in the industry were out of pocket over a quarter of a million USD, and not at all happy about it.
Recommendation 23: Questioning the DGCA involvement or lack of it.
Recommendation 24: “If nothing is done to control this company the risk of loss of life is probably now extremely high and beyond a level which is acceptable in any risk management system. “
End of my summary of the report.

Read more Susi Air Indonesia Crash 2012 Porter PC6 | General rants and raves

[WSSS]

Summary Of the Noted Report – Susi Air
Dated 5th January 2012

That's a very interesting read about what is actually happening at this organization. By the way one of their pilots carries on here and other Internet forums about poor air safety standards in Indonesia by local airlines, you'd think he and Susi Air were leading the way and setting an example for local operators to follow. Well, how wrong I am to think that, now after reading this summary.

You read so much of how Susi Air is increasing their fleet orders for brand new Cessna caravans and Porters, not to mention their Piaggio Avanti, so from an outsider, Susi Air appears to be doing very well. So it comes as a huge surprise when you read this allegation from "the report".

The report I received suggests that the company might be insolvent while servicing an enormous debt. A strong safety culture is far from a priority there now it claims, it is all about paying the banks, pay the local staff then middle of the next month look at paying the expats staff.


Read more Susi Air Indonesia Crash 2012 Porter PC6 | General rants and raves

[skysign]

Well it look like they are doing like every other corporations around the world, cut every corner to save a buck without being caught.

The problem is bigger with Susi Air only because it is very easy to corrupt the indonesian gvt.
The real problem is greed & corruption, even big name airline in the US have been caught with their pants down, but in the end they end up paying nothing or very little in fine.( just complain to senator or governor that if fine is maintain we will be laying off workers in your state = problem solve ).

Corporation rules the world, politicians get elected with corporate money and then they will do as they are told.....

I am a little a bit off subject, but Susi Air remind me when I started my career at many different bottom feeder in the US. As you move up some of the BS disappeared. But so far, even at some of the most greener pasture there are still some major issues and corporate america will look what is cheaper, cheating and paying a fine if caught, or do the right think.
What ever is cheaper that the way they will go.

Sad but true,

[skysign]

After all I might have to give some credit to Susi Air, I do not know about fjordflyer maintenance description of Susi practice.
But they at least try to improve their knowledge of mountain flying for their pilots : McCall Mountain/Canyon Flying Seminars, LLC
Idaho bush pilot came to Indonesia to give ground & flying training to Susi Air pilot.

If you want to see some crazy air strip landing : "youtube " shepp ranch landing
( the air strip is perpendiculair to the salmon river at an elevation of 2000' everything around top off from 7000' ft to 9000'ft straight up.)

[TheRedBaron01]

Sorry, but Susi is not at all like operators in the US or "every other corporation in the world" because in the US, Australia, and Europe, there is actually regulation from the FAA, JAA, etc. that cannot be bought off. Sure, there is some I'm sure of it, but NOTHING like Indonesia. The reason industries like aviation need regulation is because of the propensity of the human nature toward greed and corruption. The problem is not ultimately with Susi, but with the corrupt system in Indonesia. And they are certainly not the only one buying off the DGCA to look the other way. I have also heard from several sources there are some very high ranking government officials and politicians on Susi's payroll. The DGCA in Indonesia pays their people such low wages that it is expected that they will be paid off by operators such as Susi. That report linked above appears to be quite accurate, as far as I can tell. I heard from an ICAO rep in Indonesia (he was western) that Lion, Susi, and almost every operator in Indonesia are paying off various inspectors from DGCA. The system is very structured, the way the money passes to these people, and very regular. The way he described it, the DGCA could really care less about ICAO compliance and only cares about the appearance of caring about safety. You have to live in Indonesia to truly understand how embedded and systemic the corruption is here. This is all these people understand how to live and operate. So to point the finger simply at Susi Air is really shortsighted and shows a lack of understanding of Indonesian culture and the way things work in Indonesia.

What's really interesting is the fact that they have something like 45 airplanes, most 3 years old or less, and you KNOW those things aren't paid for. They now have 3 airplanes that are a total loss in the past year. Who is financing them and who is insuring them? You have to wonder at what point do they go bankrupt, because I can't imagine what their insurance premiums are at this point and how they are continuing to buy these brand new planes.