EXPAT fake with Jet Airways
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Why would u care??
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I absolutely echo the 2 very important points being raised here.
1. Anyone who's a faker, should be exposed and continued to be tracked down and banned for life. The consequences could have been dire. Let's not kid ourselves here, the airline/recruitment agency is fully responsible for verifying the credentials. As much as I read with great interest of some posters that kept highlighting KAL, couple of mates of mine who joined in recent times, told us that the verification process was indeed painful to start of with. KAL not called our sandpit's office, but they relentlessly rang Canada transport and aussie CASA to confirm the licenses' details prior to clearing them for further training.
2. How on earth did the training/checking processes not weed out a low time aviation enthusiasts? Clearly something is missing here. It's not just about expat/foreigners that should be singled out. There must be a way that these senior and experienced trainers/checkers can sort this fakers out pretty easily considering his lack of actual line experience. Failing which, if he's that much of god's gift to aviation, then the above first due process should be able to "take care" of him.
1. Anyone who's a faker, should be exposed and continued to be tracked down and banned for life. The consequences could have been dire. Let's not kid ourselves here, the airline/recruitment agency is fully responsible for verifying the credentials. As much as I read with great interest of some posters that kept highlighting KAL, couple of mates of mine who joined in recent times, told us that the verification process was indeed painful to start of with. KAL not called our sandpit's office, but they relentlessly rang Canada transport and aussie CASA to confirm the licenses' details prior to clearing them for further training.
2. How on earth did the training/checking processes not weed out a low time aviation enthusiasts? Clearly something is missing here. It's not just about expat/foreigners that should be singled out. There must be a way that these senior and experienced trainers/checkers can sort this fakers out pretty easily considering his lack of actual line experience. Failing which, if he's that much of god's gift to aviation, then the above first due process should be able to "take care" of him.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In a far better place
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A CV is nothing more than an 8 ˝ by 11 piece of paper with alpha numeric symbols printed on it. One can buy a plethora of simulator time to prepare for a simulator evaluation. Also one can buy books on or surf the internet for technical details of an aircraft they wish to fly. The majority of the applicants are weeded out with initial interviews, then simulator evaluations, and eventually during training before proceeding to the aircraft. Then it’s up to the check airman to weed out the weak links. Those involved with the training and checking process are the last line of defense in the process to ensure that those not up to the task are released from training. A major problem is that many those who are not up to the taks are passed along with the hopes they will improve before they take their next check ride. Review the Colgan crash in Buffalo almost two years back. The training and checking process failed, not only the innocent passengers, but the captain too. Based on his training records, he should have never been behind the controls of a transport category aircraft.
The FAA has a very good track record of valid airmen certificates on their computer system detailing dates of medicals, issuances of airman certificates, instructor ratings, along with check airman letters.
With the enactment of the PRIA “Pilot Record Improvement Act” records from previous employers and violations if any from FAA records. http://www.faa.gov/pilots/lic_cert/pria/
One must bear in mind that information entered in the data base is subject to the honesty of the employer. That said there are airlines that may not be forthright to avoid confrontations and lawsuits from former employees. That said the information is only as good as the information the company desires to impart.
Every contracting agency has the tools available to conduct thorough checks of the applicants before recommending them to an airline they represent. Yes it costs money. But at the end of the day it can save all concerned parties a lot of embarrassment and provide credibility to the contract agencies.
Bear in mind that the above applies to the carriers too. They have a fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders, and passengers to ensure they are employing legitimate qualified crews.
Foreign carriers I’ve worked for have conducted a thorough search with the FAA and previous employees too… without complications. I have to say, and no I’ve not been drinking, the FAA was very efficient with providing requested information to contracting air carriers and their DGCAs.
The FAA has a very good track record of valid airmen certificates on their computer system detailing dates of medicals, issuances of airman certificates, instructor ratings, along with check airman letters.
With the enactment of the PRIA “Pilot Record Improvement Act” records from previous employers and violations if any from FAA records. http://www.faa.gov/pilots/lic_cert/pria/
One must bear in mind that information entered in the data base is subject to the honesty of the employer. That said there are airlines that may not be forthright to avoid confrontations and lawsuits from former employees. That said the information is only as good as the information the company desires to impart.
Every contracting agency has the tools available to conduct thorough checks of the applicants before recommending them to an airline they represent. Yes it costs money. But at the end of the day it can save all concerned parties a lot of embarrassment and provide credibility to the contract agencies.
Bear in mind that the above applies to the carriers too. They have a fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders, and passengers to ensure they are employing legitimate qualified crews.
Foreign carriers I’ve worked for have conducted a thorough search with the FAA and previous employees too… without complications. I have to say, and no I’ve not been drinking, the FAA was very efficient with providing requested information to contracting air carriers and their DGCAs.
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Yes, I am familiar with FAR § 61.153 Eligibility requirements: General. (c) Be of good moral character
Scooby… without written consent, by a US certified pilot, in a specific format promulgated by the FAA, nobody will be able to obtain records on any pilot in the US other than their address, provided it is not blocked by the airman at their request. You can obtain information about an airman’s certificates and endorsement thereon If they did not place a requested block.
Remember as I indicated in my previous post the provisions contained in the Pilot Record Improvement Act are only as good as employers, both current and former are willing to participate in the program.
However there is FAR § 61.59 Falsification, reproduction, or alteration of applications, certificates, logbooks, reports, or records.
(a) No person may make or cause to be made:
(1) Any fraudulent or intentionally false statement on any application for a certificate, rating, authorization, or duplicate thereof, issued under this part;
(2) Any fraudulent or intentionally false entry in any logbook, record, or report that is required to be kept, made, or used to show compliance with any requirement for the issuance or exercise of the privileges of any certificate, rating, or authorization under this part;
(3) Any reproduction for fraudulent purpose of any certificate, rating, or authorization, under this part; or
(4) Any alteration of any certificate, rating, or authorization under this part.
(b) The commission of an act prohibited under paragraph (a) of this section is a basis for suspending or revoking any airman certificate, rating, or authorization held by that person.
The FAA will take no certificate action against an airman unless an employer, either current or former is willing to provide valid information. Foreign carriers in possession of ANY information of any known malfeasance should inform their DGCA which in turn will inform the FAA . Then the FAA may take action if deemed appropriate.
Logging fraudulent flight time as a private pilot if pretty hard to prove, not to mention time consuming. However such fraud is easier to prove when a pilot lists flying jobs along with logged hours when contracting agencies and airlines as well as foreign DGCAs perform their due diligence in conducting a thorough background check on prospective employees.
Scooby… without written consent, by a US certified pilot, in a specific format promulgated by the FAA, nobody will be able to obtain records on any pilot in the US other than their address, provided it is not blocked by the airman at their request. You can obtain information about an airman’s certificates and endorsement thereon If they did not place a requested block.
Remember as I indicated in my previous post the provisions contained in the Pilot Record Improvement Act are only as good as employers, both current and former are willing to participate in the program.
However there is FAR § 61.59 Falsification, reproduction, or alteration of applications, certificates, logbooks, reports, or records.
(a) No person may make or cause to be made:
(1) Any fraudulent or intentionally false statement on any application for a certificate, rating, authorization, or duplicate thereof, issued under this part;
(2) Any fraudulent or intentionally false entry in any logbook, record, or report that is required to be kept, made, or used to show compliance with any requirement for the issuance or exercise of the privileges of any certificate, rating, or authorization under this part;
(3) Any reproduction for fraudulent purpose of any certificate, rating, or authorization, under this part; or
(4) Any alteration of any certificate, rating, or authorization under this part.
(b) The commission of an act prohibited under paragraph (a) of this section is a basis for suspending or revoking any airman certificate, rating, or authorization held by that person.
The FAA will take no certificate action against an airman unless an employer, either current or former is willing to provide valid information. Foreign carriers in possession of ANY information of any known malfeasance should inform their DGCA which in turn will inform the FAA . Then the FAA may take action if deemed appropriate.
Logging fraudulent flight time as a private pilot if pretty hard to prove, not to mention time consuming. However such fraud is easier to prove when a pilot lists flying jobs along with logged hours when contracting agencies and airlines as well as foreign DGCAs perform their due diligence in conducting a thorough background check on prospective employees.
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: negative RAIM.....
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Is there not a dusty road you kids could find with some tar and feathers?
If this guy is proven to have forged or faked credentials then I most certainly expect and hope he is exposed to the full extent of the law. But to try a person via an anonymous "rumour" network shows more immaturity and desperation than it does to improve the industry.
Hell, I could name handfuls of pilots during my tenure and AI who had fake log books: from pilots (Capts and FO's) filling in random figures in their log books (best guessed hours after a flight) to TRE/I's stamping any old log book thrown infornt of them, to FO's logging 7-80% of their flight time as P1 U/S when they most certainly did not fly as such: just so they can beat their "batchmates" in getting an ATP/ATPL and hence sooner Command. And AI's checks as to these hours? Zero. Nothing. A stupidly incompetent and lazy women who would sign and stamp a dogs back side if it were put in front of her. All quite contrary to AI's SOP's and DGCA laws of course....
(And yes, I did report such matters).
So, who's going to throw the first stone?
You all scream from the rafters and unashamedly name and finger point individuals yet too many are so damn small minded and immature to bother about the source of the fault.
Which agency did this individual come from (yes, I know the answer). What of it's background checks on this individual prior to being sent on a contract? Does this agency not have a STINKING reputation for such things? yet why do these airlines still use them??
What of the airline's background checks? Did it do any? Why? Why not?
Why was this person's credentials not exposed in background checks, let alone sim evaluations??
And of course, most prolific is: WHO PROFITED FROM THE PLACEMENT(S)?
The answers are obvious "IF" you care to look, and all been posted by me countless times before. Then again, you may have to tell the Emperor (or Maharaja) he has no clothes.
Look at the SYSTEM that allowed this to happen (if true at all) instead of the individual at the end of the slippery rope of corruption and shear incompetence.
If this guy is proven to have forged or faked credentials then I most certainly expect and hope he is exposed to the full extent of the law. But to try a person via an anonymous "rumour" network shows more immaturity and desperation than it does to improve the industry.
Hell, I could name handfuls of pilots during my tenure and AI who had fake log books: from pilots (Capts and FO's) filling in random figures in their log books (best guessed hours after a flight) to TRE/I's stamping any old log book thrown infornt of them, to FO's logging 7-80% of their flight time as P1 U/S when they most certainly did not fly as such: just so they can beat their "batchmates" in getting an ATP/ATPL and hence sooner Command. And AI's checks as to these hours? Zero. Nothing. A stupidly incompetent and lazy women who would sign and stamp a dogs back side if it were put in front of her. All quite contrary to AI's SOP's and DGCA laws of course....
(And yes, I did report such matters).
So, who's going to throw the first stone?
You all scream from the rafters and unashamedly name and finger point individuals yet too many are so damn small minded and immature to bother about the source of the fault.
Which agency did this individual come from (yes, I know the answer). What of it's background checks on this individual prior to being sent on a contract? Does this agency not have a STINKING reputation for such things? yet why do these airlines still use them??
What of the airline's background checks? Did it do any? Why? Why not?
Why was this person's credentials not exposed in background checks, let alone sim evaluations??
And of course, most prolific is: WHO PROFITED FROM THE PLACEMENT(S)?
The answers are obvious "IF" you care to look, and all been posted by me countless times before. Then again, you may have to tell the Emperor (or Maharaja) he has no clothes.
Look at the SYSTEM that allowed this to happen (if true at all) instead of the individual at the end of the slippery rope of corruption and shear incompetence.
