Mayday! Mayday! Mayday!

[simplypilot]

Hello Friends,
I am one guy who is really mad at flying and it has been one reason for me to spend a fortune into becoming a pilot in India. I have been misguided at every step. Finally i reached pprune and got some light on what i am really doing.

Having spent nearly Rs.40L in Aus for c-172 cpl and be76 mecir, now i am back here having cleared nav comp but unsuccessful with reg for four times. Worst thing i am out of recency period.

(Please note that i am not one of those careless people or one who has a mill generating money. Reality being i have been stupid and blind to become useless.I feel so down that sometimes i think i can't get up. I have almost burnt all the family property for funding me. now i am not sure if i will be able to takeover the responsibilities.)

So here i enlist my worries towards which i sincerely request help in the form of advise from you people.

1. what needs to be done for clearing regs.( I followed RK.BALI, V.KRISHNAN). Please send some material if available to [email protected].

2. be76 multi endorsement is no more provided. hence after i clear reg and get on with doing further training, which other multi aircraft are advisable. options i have are da42, pa34... since i already have multi rating on my Aus cpl, what additional hours are actually required to make it a multi rating on da42 or pa34 or someother aircraft.

3. anyone who has done, could you advise schools where recency can be done for real cheap in Aus.

Thankyou all.

Simplypilot.

[NZNPH]

Try to get Mr Kc duggals notes they were very helpful.I don't have his books with me .

Also you can do a pa34 rating and for recency you can also go to NZ there are a few very good flying schools der...no clue about aus

[smurf84]

Srikanth...Please check your Pprune inbox for the message.

[Johny Boy]

So here i enlist my worries towards which i sincerely request help in the form of advise from you people.

1. what needs to be done for clearing regs.( I followed RK.BALI, V.KRISHNAN). Please send some material if available to [email protected].

2. be76 multi endorsement is no more provided. hence after i clear reg and get on with doing further training, which other multi aircraft are advisable. options i have are da42, pa34... since i already have multi rating on my Aus cpl, what additional hours are actually required to make it a multi rating on da42 or pa34 or someother aircraft.

3. anyone who has done, could you advise schools where recency can be done for real cheap in Aus.

1. Study Duggal Sir's notes/Wcdr Buti's/Capt. Surinder's......along with Rk Bali and all others....as you are only left with Reg's....so put all effort by burning every seconds of time you got now.If you get a Duggal's notes then do mugg all pages starting from page number 80 onwards.

2. Wait for some time as DGCA might again change rule for accepted a/c's list...just hang in their till you clear your Reg's.
PA 34 will be cheaper ....but first clear Reg's paper and if possible apply for SE CPL with all Recency consideration taken account off.You can do ME later on too and get it endorsed on CPL.

3. Dont rush for recency ...just wait till some rules and regulations gets updated by DGCA which might clear some confusing details of accepted a/c's and types by DGCA....then go for recency which again leaves me to say get Reg's paper cleared first.


On the side note....why you went for such a pricey flying program.Well never mind ...just best of luck.

[cyrilroy21]

Also dont forget

Air regulations from the July Attempt onwards includes not only air regulations but also the following

1. DGCA Regs
2. Human Factors
3. Operational procedures
4. Communications

Refer to JAA reference books for topics 2,3,4 like Jeppesen or Oxford


It has been properly outlined here

http://www.dgca.nic.in/cars/D7B-B4.pdf

On another note the past few regs attempt were quite easy from what i have heard (Jan 2011 onwards ) . I have quite a few friends who passed regs and this was their first attempt

Where have you been studying regs from ?

[simplypilot]

Hey cyrilroy,
The first time i studied from RK.Bali and then next time with the same book and the next time with V.Krishnan and the next time with the same. So i am very highly confused. Where can i get hold of Jepps or Oxford books?

Simplypilot.

[simplypilot]

thankyou friends.

hello...

smurf84
cyrilroy
johnyboy
nznph

thankyou all for posting me some adivice.

simplypilot.

[cyrilroy21]

Check your PM

[josh121.5]

@simply pilot : cyrilroy is right , the last few attempt have been very easy and infact i cleared it in the last attempt(april2011) . i just studied the questions from Tapashkar and out of 50 questions 40 came straight from his Q&A , and the other 10 was a little bit tricky but not complicated and in fact i still remember those 10 question , so if u want i can post that too . dorry worry mate u'll be fine this attempt !

.And regarding doing your Recency in Australia , please dont even think about going to Melbourne if u intend to save money , most of the school's rip you off big time .PM me if u want detailed info regarding flying schools in melbourne

[Cactus225]

Simplypilot,

You aint the only one in this boat. Dont worry.

You have already been given some good advise by everyone here. I would just like to highlight what Johnny Boy says-

if possible apply for SE CPL with all Recency consideration taken account off.You can do ME later on too and get it endorsed on CPL.

That makes perfect sense. Also you dont need to get it endorsed on the CPL at all. The airlines would understand if you just have a Multi Engine Endorsement on your CASA Licence. Since there is no GA in India, it should not be a problem at all. Whenever an operator hires you they will get you rated on the appropriate aircraft. That way you should be able to save a significant amount of money. (else the requirement is for 10 hours in multi in the preceding six months)

Also, I cleared the Regs paper in 2009. But i just read through the Aircraft Rules 1937 book and the CARS on the DGCA website. No classes or anything at the time. Think about that too.

Best Luck!

[vdaff]

40 lacs??????

why you didnt go to usa, you could have done that half the amount, or you could have went to top university in india and now you would have been working with high pay, much higher than what spicejetcrap is giving its pilots

[MTBUR]

where'd you learn, vdaff?

[cyrilroy21]

@Cactus225

IndiGo requires an ME endorsement with IR rating on your Indian license
and they are the only ones who seem to be hiring every month


One of the reasons why I never went to australia to get my CPL was because I found it always way more expensive than flying schools in the U.S

For 40lacs you can get a CPL + recency + type rating in the U.S

[smurf84]

Indeed, training in Australia/New Zealand is expensive. The quality of training in Australia is top-notch as far as what I know. Whoever begs to differ me can go ahead. But thats what I got - the best training, compared to some of my friends who went to the USA and South Africa who lack a lot of confidence and knowledge. Beware, its only few of my friends. There may be the brilliant lot I wouldn't want to argue with. And yes, Cyril is right, Indigo requires a MECIR on your Indian licence.

vdaff! You are polluting this forum again!

[josh121.5]

@smurf : Gotta agree with you on this one man ! And one of the reason training in oz is very expensive is due to the strong Austraian dollar . 3 years back 1 AUD used to be 32 INR but now its 47 INR .

@VDAFF : i can smell the stench of negativity from you , yet again !

[sonsal]

CPL from US is also not bad, And believe me it doesnt matter here in india whether you got your flying done from US or OZ.
I think CPL you can do from any descent school but the Type rating is what that matters eventually and it has to be from Top schools Like CAE, CTE etc.

[smurf84]

Yes josh, it is the Aussie dollar that is sky-rocketing at the moment. When I joined the course in 2008, it cost me roughly 18.5 lacs (excluding recency).

Sonsal, I beg to differ and it really matters when it comes to a CASA or FAA or CAA CPL. It isn't kept there only for the 'type rating moment'. I hope you're aware that you carry forward the entire knowledge you gained during your CPL training right through to your type rating phase and further on in your career. I'm totally satisfied with the disciplined training I received, compared to my friends who had a cake walk in the US, and I'm told some of them don't get to fly the Duchess or any multi-engine for building command time. That an instructor has to be on board, even if the student has an endorsement. This has only got to do with a couple of my friends . Anyway, I haven't framed this statement to trigger any further comments. But that's the way it is. I value the FAA CPL with high respect. But I know some who rush to the US because they can get their CPL in 7 months with just a couple of exams. Correct me if I'm mistaken. I'm pretty sure there are a lot of hardworking and brilliant Indian pilots from the FAA community. I will not disagree to that.

[cyrilroy21]

I'm told some of them don't get to fly the Duchess or any multi-engine for building command time. That an instructor has to be on board, even if the student has an endorsement.

There are certain flying schools that wont let you log command time because of insurance requirements.

However they are quite few

Most of the flying schools allow you time build without any issues as PIC .
I know one where they let you fly a duchess for solo flying ( only person on board ) provided you pass a checkout with their instructor

The FAA written exams are a cakewalk . All you have to do is by heart the question bank and you can pass the exam very easily ( All the subjects are in one exam )

We have written exam for PPL , IR and CPL
You can write the exam whenever you please and the result is published immediately after the exam

Since we are international students you have to undergo compulsory ground training before each exam ( Part 141 )

The FAA checkride as they call it is the practical exam . This is no cakewalk .

You have checkride for PPL , IR , CPL and multi exam

I had my multi CPL and multi IR all in one checkride

You have a 3hour oral exam followed by a very strict practical exam .
I have seen students fail the oral for getting a single question wrong in the exam
Same applies for the practical too . You have to execute all the manouvers perfectly to their standards ( For eg steep turn in multi 50 degree bank +/- 100 feet at the CPL level )
One wrong manouver and you fail
Some examiners though let you try it once again ( rare case )

The reason they are able to finish in 7 months is because of good weather and plenty of airplanes and plenty of instructors.
Thousands of airports to fly to ( Florida has more airports than the whole of India put together )

I have friends who used to fly 50 hours a week during their time building because of good weather and plenty of airplanes

Another reason is because of websites like CSC DUATS on the Web where the website does all the flight planning including fuel logs for you .
For eg: Once we reach the school we open the website on the school computer , Enter our Departure , Destination , time of departure and route ( VFR , IFR ) , type of aircraft and average fuel burn / hour , Altitude etc

It automatically plans a route for us using the prevailing winds and lets us know the fuel burnt time, taken etc . Once we accept the plan you can file the flight plan through the website and the ATC receives the plan electronically ( no 60 minute in advance like in India )
We file flight plans for both toward and return leg then and there itself

So within 10 minutes we are on our way with our flight plans filed and the aircraft key to go and preflight the airplane . By the time we finish preflighting the airplane the flight plan is ready with the ATC .

We check the weather long before we even go to school on websites like AWC - Aviation Weather Center which helps us in choosing our destination for time building


Ofcourse we are only allowed to use duats for time building phase and after we have obtained out PPL or IR rating and not during training .


But 6-7 months are usually the ideal case . Most average 8-10 months ( at my flying school )
I took about a year due to bad luck ( weather or maintenance issue when its my turn to fly )
We also flew 7 days a week as our flying school did not shut down on sundays and saturdays so that those who couldnt fly during the week due to maintenance or weather issues
During my IR training my instructor made sure that I have a sim session followed by a flight every day from monday to sunday because I lost one month due to the TSA taking time in issuing a clearance to begin my IR training

Just because someone who finished in 7 months dosent mean that they passed all their exams in the first attempt.

Now about the quality of students that come from FAA .

Everyone is different when it comes to flying airplanes . You wont find two or more different pilots who fly the same way .


There is a reputation among Flight instructors in the U.S that Indian students are generally lazy , dont work hard and not interested in flying . They just come to get their license as soon as possible so that they can go back home to fly the big jets .

That is none of them are truly interested in becoming a pilot and these are the kind of people that have little aviation knowledge and perform badly even in their FAA exams

There were a lot of Indian students who come to the U.S and then start bunking classes . They come to class or for a flight drunk . They go on long trips to places instead of being in class or flying without telling the flying school . They dont follow rules and regulations . They have no interest on flying whatsoever . They schedule a flight but are too lazy to get up in the morning to come for class


These kind of people dosent matter where they go will never become good pilots

I had a guy in school who couldnt pass his instrument written exam twice
Then he flunk his checkride for both the oral as well as the practical twice
Least bothered about flying or getting his license but partying all the time

The FAA keeps a permanent record of all your failures . Some airlines in the U.S wont hire you if you have more than two checkride failures

One guy was deported back to India because he tried to bribe a police officer who caught him for drunk driving


There were lots of cases like this all over the flying schools in the U.S

I am quite sure those who learn to fly in Australia / New zealand are well qualified too .Especially since General Aviation is quite abundant in all these countries
But i still find the aircraft rental rates too high when compared to the U.S

The average rental rate for a multi like a duchess or seminole or a seneca in florida is 235USD $ / hr ( inlcudes fuel )
Which 10,455 rupees/hour or 219AUD / hr

Just wanted to put perspective from the FAA side .

Thats all folks

[smurf84]

Aircraft rental rates being very high in Australia! I couldn't agree with you more, Cyril. Anyway, you've made a valid point too. There are some elements (be it in the USA, Australia, New Zealand) who ruin this industry only for the sake of money. It was just a couple of stories from my friends in the US that surprised me about the training there. Now I don't know which school they graduated from. During a random check flight, we were never allowed to use the GPS for navigation, sometimes the instructor got rid of the maps and we had to time ourselves every 6 minutes to the destination, fuel log to be done manually - it was the hard way. I'm sure it was done there too. Alright, back to the forum !

[niksmathew24]

There is also a small advantage in doing your flying from a common wealth country like NZ/AUS as you don't have to give the all time head ache known RTR.