India - Indian Medical for all expats within 6 months

[expat india]

Within 6 months all foreigners flying on a FATA will be required to obtain an Indian Medical.

Two issues here (a) it just seems like more meaningless time wasting and (b) what if you fail?

I would be surprised if there is a single foreign pilot who hasn't had hair pulling out moments re the large amount of pointless and unnecessary bureaucracy.

We should be setting an example and help reduce the time wasting, which will have a great benefit in increasing the countries productivity.

One could ask "Is a JAA/ FAA/ Australian, etc medical really not good enough for India?"

However, crews must realises there is a risk. If you fail the Indian medical, you will have to disclose this to FAA/ JAA, etc

The Indian medical standards are much more stringent and very likely based on military requirements, whilst countries with more resources at their disposal can have more relaxed requirements.

Also, could there be a case of failing the medical due to non payment of the "fee", although unlikely, it is a possibility?

My view .. its not worth the risk

[estranged soul]

However, crews must realises there is a risk. If you fail the Indian medical, you will have to disclose this to FAA/ JAA, etc

Hit the proverbial nail on the head !

Any foreign crew failing the Indian medical or being declared temporarily unfit would certainly have to report to FAA/JAA etc.

That would further open a can of worms perhaps ??

[itsbrokenagain]

I dont think you will find at all there is ANY requirement under the JAA/EASA or FAA regulations to notify them you have been found medically unfit in another country.

If there is post it, but I doubt it.

Are the airlines calling for the expats to undertake the medical yet? As of last week I heard from friend at 2 of them they were still telling them its not going to be an issue... which more than likely means it will be removed without anyone knowing shortly.

[expat india]

"I dont think you will find at all there is ANY requirement under the JAA/EASA or FAA regulations to notify them you have been found medically unfit in another country."

Oh and "Mr I doubt it" Next time you go for a JAA medical, take a look at the form you fill in .. its says something along lines of ..

Have you ever had an aviation medical certificate denied, suspended or revoked by any licensing authority?

FAA form asks if you have seen a physician or had a medical evaluation ..

Call DGCA medical dept [phone] ext 7806

DGCA's opinion differs from your friend !

[itsbrokenagain]

"Next time you go for a medical, take a look at the form you fill in .. its says something along lines of ..

Have you ever had an aviation medical certificate denied, suspended or revoked by any licensing authority? "

Actually.... I just have...!!

And NO the FAA dont give a ****e about any other medical as far as I am can see, item 13 of the old fashioned form only asks about any FAA medical issues....and its the same question on Medexpress

And come on do you really think the FAA take the Indian Aviation medical seriously ???? I bet they have a great laugh over the whole situation in India.

Imagine how much it will add to the delays for the poor local guys trying to get their medicals renewed in time in places like Chennai and Kolkata!

Oh PS down here in a more organized SE Asian Country they too dont give a damn if you have failed another countries aviation medical also.... I know that from an Indian pilot who cannot pass his DGCA medical but happily flies here as a Captain for the national carrier!!

[expat india]

itsbrokenagain - I'm glad you're confident that FAA wouldn't be concerned about someone failing an Indian Medical.

However, I doubt everyone would agree with you, and in any case if you're not in India, it does not affect you any way.

This is an issue for Foreign pilots in India - the medical may find a problem which does need to be disclosed to JAA, contrary to your" I doubt it view", and for FAA you do need to disclose the medical (but not the result it seems, but you could still be asked).

Also, there are a list of questions you have to answer for both JAA/ FAA and you would have to disclose here if you have a condition that became apparent during the Indian Medical.

Your opinion "FAA don't give a ****e" does not convince me, especially since I have JAA as well !!

I would respectfully ask you to let this thread concentrate on the real issue here, rather than sidetracking the issue by insisting FAA/ JAA would just laugh about a failed Indian Medical.


PS your last sentence does indeed show the Indian Medical can cause a problem

[weido_salt]

It depends if you value the "Mother license" you are in possession of. If you fail they will make sure the issuing authorities of the mother license will be informed.

My advise to you expats down there is to boycott the examination. Possibly delay it until the last minute, then they will be so snowed under with these tests, it will take months to clear the backlog.

[Meccano]

If you fail a foreign medical you are required to tick the box on your Home licence renewal form that states you have attended/failed another medical.
If you don't, that is fraud. You know this very well.

If you tick the box, you will be asked what you failed on, and you can bet your ass the AME is going to pay very close attention to it, and may require further tests on the problem area. The AME has to cover his ass too you know.

Of course some (mainly Western) CAA's have a practical approach and allow greater latitude on limits, and cater for normal deterioration with age. So it might not actually be a problem.

When I read of the huge percentage of guys failing medicals at Chinese and Korean airlines I just wonder - WHY do people take the risk when they know the failure rates?
You could lose more than one job. You could lose your licence.

I think people take the risk anyhow, then go home and say nothing when they fail. They probably get away with it too.But iIf there is an accident investigation one day and this stuff turns out to have been a contributory factor - there is going to be hell to pay. Its as bad as LogBook Falsification, which everyone is jumping up and down about right now.

[152wiseguy]

No worries guys, just cause you don't pass one licensing authorities medical does not mean you cannot have a medical in another. The requirements vary from country to country.

Of course you will have to truthfully answer all the questions on each form you sign but having failed a medical in india will not change the medical requirements in your home country.

A while back a friend of mine was trying to get into aviation. His eyesight met the requirements for a JAA class one renewal but not for the initial. So he went to the US and passed a FAA class one medical. On returning to the UK he went for a class one medical this time he qualified for the renewal limits as he was already flying professionally! He is now flying with a valid JAA class one medical.

So sometimes different medical requirements can work out in your favour. I don't think the Indian aeromedical doctors are about to do any expats any favours but I doubt it will be as disastrous as some people are making out.

[Meccano]

Oh, and don't forget to mention the failure to your Loss Of Licence Insurer too. It may affect your cover. It certainly will if you make a claim and they find out about an unreported issue.

Insurance companies.....any bloody excuse.....

[TopTup]

Having witnessed many body shapes throughout my career, it always amazes me how some people do pass any medical examinations. But, we are talking about "Incredible India" here......

So, the question begs to be answered: if a chain smoking (on the flight deck of course), grossly overweight national pilot can pass the DGCA medical then why not a chain smoking, grossly overweight expat?

Is it possible to think that just maybe not all playing fields are fair and just at the illustrious DGCA? Perish the thought.

So, when you have to drop your britches, have some rupees strategically placed.

[Legal_Eagle]

What about a legal challenge to this nonsense?

If a couple of upstart, whippersnappers can mount a legal challenge against expats working in India, then why cant the expats chip in an do the same to challenge this stupidity.

I anyone holds a FATA that is valid longer than 6 months I cant see how it can be rescinded because the DGCA seem to want to shift the goal posts.

[Meccano]

Having witnessed many body shapes throughout my career, it always amazes me how some people do pass any medical examinations. But, we are talking about "Incredible India" here......

I'd like to have the same question answered about Chinese pilots, and Korean pilots.
All Mainland Chinese pilots I've ever met smoke like chimneys. I haven't seen too many grossly overweight - its just not a Chinese thing - but I doubt many of them hit the treadmill three times a week *cough cough*.

Kinda suspicious, innit.....

Look guys, in a Western Unionised Carrier with a proper seniority list there would be massive resistance to the hiring of DEC's. You can't blame the Chinese or Korean, or any other organised pilot group from protecting their interests. They may do it by strikes (not in China of course!), or they may do it by - er - 'setting high standards' (for the applicant pilots). Only the best, eh!

Whether in the Interview Room, the Sim, the Line-Check, or the Medical - they'll get you if they possibly can. And if they do it on Medical grounds, bang goes your career and LOL Insurance. Seems like a massive gamble by the applicant pilots, when you clearly are unwelcome and not wanted.

I guess if you have no other choice, go for it. But get yourself in shape first.
Oh, and get on Crestor.

These pilots have seen their destiny if they sit idly by.
Ryanair T's & C's.
Another Western Import.....

Who can honestly blame them for being out to get you? It's nothing personal.

[sunset_contrails_10]

I don't believe the FAA will care about medical results in a foreign country because their test have no bearing to the FAA. They don't care about cholesterol levels, they don't have a balance test, and they don't care about fit pilots that have a low resting heart rate. The FAA has moved into the 21st century and understand what is fit and what isn't fit.

[Meccano]

Did you read my post SC?
I think you're missing the point. It has nothing whatever to do with fitness.
Not that it really matters....howling at the moon will get us nowhere.

I don't believe the FAA will care about medical results in a foreign country..

Can you back that statement up with any evidence? It seems like mere opinion.
Did you ever tick the box saying you've failed a medical/been denied a licence?
Are you an FAA AME?

[sunset_contrails_10]

I have facts on my side. Failed a Chinese medical because my resting heart rate is 39. I disclosed to the FAA and never have had a response. It has been five years now.

When you take your FAA Medical and disclose that you have failed a foreign medical, they allow explanation. The FAA Doctor will give you an FAA Medical and if he finds you fit then he will issue the First Class Medical. He will send all the information to the FAA for review and they will contact you if any problems, however you will be issued a First Class Medical.

FAA won't blink twice about low resting heart rates, strange balance tests, BMI requirements and other strange tests. Hell, i passed a US Airforce Medical also with a low resting heart rate but chinese doctors seem to have a problem with it.

We risk our jobs everytime we sit in the pilot's seat of an aircraft. No sense in panicking about a foreign medical. If they have a problem with you then move on to the next job. If you refuse the medical then you will be fired and have to move on anyway so their is nothing to lose.

Speaking from experience.

[Capt Apache]

The Indian Xenophobe is dreaming if he thinks he has found a way to get around expats.India is soon going to be the 'Diabetes and Cardiac problems' capital of the world (if it isnt already). People in the West are more health conscious than us in diet and excercise.Also I think there is an attempt to spread panic about the dreaded Indian medical. It is F easy.Only more than often they will ask you to bring in some reports that they could actually do without.I think its just because they want to protect their backside if something goes wrong in the future. If you find corruption, which you might - a slim chance, you are better off reporting it than having some rupees 'strategically placed' like some idiot suggested.

[Capt Apache]

The expat will do well to apprise himself of the medical regulations and the way to go about it.Here is the rule book.Good luck

Handbook on Medical Assessment of Flight Crew

[drive73]

Ah, this reminds me of other Indian government money making schemes.. Put out a directive, work the companies into a frenzy with unrealistic deadlines and wait for the money to roll in. At this point they will extend the directive for years to come.
This is a PR money making stunt. Just add it to the list.

[itsbrokenagain]

Out of pure curiosity is there a FATA holder on here who has done the Indian medical yet to meet this new rule?

I have a friend who just last week had his FATA renewed but no mention was made of him needing to get this medical ! (maybe he got lucky)