Susi Air Work Permits

[infrequent_flyer]

Ya, SA has bribed the Director Jendral of Imigration enuf that the pilot not need Imigration Permit. Ciawi / Tasik office of Imigration has no power to stop Susi Air in there area. Also Police have no power. Maybe situation will stay like that if Susi stay friends with Surya Paloh and other powerful people.

You guys don't get big money because some have to pay for protection, also for Susi husband.

IF

[rustam]

Thank you for your information.
I am not surprised.
What you say just confirms what many people have been suspecting for a long time.

So far nothing has happened, but I have confidence in Justice,
and soon the real Indonesia will stand up and cut the Monster's head.

Now to all pilots still working illegally for susi air:

- you 'd never do this in your own country
- by putting yourselves in such a situation, you deny yourselves the most basic worker's rights
- the flying you do here in Indonesia won't be recognized by your home country
- the tax man will chase you when you come home
- you are working against what has been taught to you since elementary school: honesty and integrity

[cintamu]

done! I have reported it today to the KPK...
SA is one way to get to the top! but the wrong way im affraid!

[cintamu]

This is one way of putting it.
for years and years it has always been the same problem for pilots, huge debt, low hours etc etc...
that is why SA is playing with it. Not everyone want to be an airline pilots!
people should be realistic and should stop being naive! or closing their eyes.
do like other pilots keep knocking on doors force your destiny! be proud of yourself!
if you cant work in aviation industry than work somewhere else for a little bit!
the excuse of you have to start somewhere is nice but you have to think where do I want to start?
start in those conditions?? or start in a better situation??
you cant be naive all of your life right? especially when you have 24 or 35 or 42yo...
like you said if you discover that your company never really intended to do any papers, remember the old days at the flying school "no license no flying"(international rule), than be proud leave!

most of them are alcoholic we saw it and you saw it too!
that what happen when beers are cheap and men are bored.
I flew myself with pilots smelling jack daniels early morning its not a news!

polite and respectful maybe face to face but once you back home everybody throws words at them.
SA might not be the sole problem of Indonesian aviation but it is the only company employing 99% of bule pilots and not in the right terms! and everybody knows it! EVERYBODY!!

other countries are corrupted too and corruption comes in many different ways you the only one to judge whether or not it is acceptable.

Indonesia is a wonderful place and we share that idea! it has positive and negative points just like all the other country! thank you GS please share your ideas again.

salam

[rustam]

Hi Geeham

Thanks for your contribution and for keeping the debate on reasonable terms.

You also give a different perspective to the whole matter by putting yourself in a low time, fresh out of flying school pilot's shoes.

However, that is the whole point of susi air: they employ those category of pilots because they can pay them a ridiculous salary, they wont just walk out of there because they have loans to pay or whatever bill, and they are much easier to control than a 45 year old, 7500 hour pilot.

I agree that everyone has to get started somewhere but that doesnt mean letting yourself be enslaved by signing some ridiculous "bond".

Working in any country illegally is an offence.
If a 300 hour, 21 year old kid is going to fly right hand seat in a caravan for 600 usd per month for one year, the least you can do is organize him/her all the legalities so he can have some pride in what he/she is doing.

Like cintamu said if flying for a dodgy outfit is the only option you have, maybe you should consider doing something else for a while.
It's tough after spending all this money on your cpl/ir but in the long term you'll be proud you made the right choice.

As to alcoholism, there has been so many cases of susi air pilots flying while still drunk, good thing they had an FO they could rely on.

-Medan: one pilot flies 4 legs and keeps spewing from start up to shut down.
The FO did all the work, the captain did all he/she could not to pass out.

- Papua: one pilot shows up at work for the early morning flight, he vomited several times on the apron, in front of the pax, he has to be taken back to the mess

- Jakarta: a training captain takes 6 or 7 new recruits on a night out

- Pangandaran: bamboo bar

etc ...

Polite, respectful: calling ATC f... ing idiot ...
Ask Medan Director staff how polite and respectful some susi air pilots are

I rest my case.
Thanks for reading this.

[Lucerne]

Australian nationals working for Suzie Air will not be subject to any of the proposed penalties, they will not be chased by the tax man, they have access to all workers' rights, We have heaps of Indonesians working ilegally in Australia, we don't care if Australia recognises the flying or not, Australia is not paying us, we conduct ourselves in the workplace with the utmost of integrity and honesty! Just ask us!!

[infrequent_flyer]

KPK need to Check?

For those who don't speak Indonesian, the KPK is the Commission to Eliminate Corrunption [in Indonesia]. OK, all you have to do is go to Immigration Ciawi / Tasik and ask any of the friendly [no joke] staff there whether they have any authority over SA staff. They will tell you <<NO>>. Then ask why.

SA expat pilots seem like nice people but they are being used by boss's husband, his also German HRD fellow of course the Dragon Lady herself. Many Indonesians and foreigners are reassured by the non-Indonesian pilot and these people know it. It doesn't make sense that SA doesn't have all Indonesian Caravan pilots by now. And it doesn't make sense that with all their Deutsche Bank and other questionable dollars that they can't send an Indonesian mechanic or two to SAIT, BCIT or some other school to study PT-6 engine, etc. If maintenance is like some of you say, by now, people should worry about boarding SA aircraft which mostly all use this engine. One was stuck on the apron at Nusawiru for long time due to engine failure.

IF

[rustam]

To aztec 2008: what happened to your sense of humor?

To Lucerne: this is not about petty fights between neighbors ( Indonesia and Australia) but about ethics.

[WSSS]

I was going to reply to Geeham's post before he deleted it. The only thing I'd like to add is that there are many other expat pilots working in Indonesia legally for airlines such as Lion Air, Wings Air, MAF, Sky Aviation, Airfast, Travira Air, Merpati etc .. and all have gone through the process of getting the work permit and correct visas.

The reason why it's important to have the work permit and go through the correct process is both an ethical one, as well as a legal one. Expats are brought in to Indonesia so that their contribution can be of benefit to the country in improving the skills of the local labour workforce.

For every expat the company employs, the local company must pay $1200 USD a year to the Kementrian Tenaga (Minsitry of Manpower) which goes in to a fund to help improve the skills of locals doing the job that the expat has been brought in to do. If a company does not comply with this, then obviously, the local Indonesian workforce will not benefit from having expats in the country.

So the employing of expats is meant to be a two way street. The expat benefits from the job opportunity, and the locals benefit from the funds generated to upgrade their skills, and from the extra skills that expat brings in to the country.

If what has been alleged is true, and that Susi Air are not providing their expat employees with a work permit and the subsequent costs that this involves, then the only beneficiaries of this program are the foreign pilots themselves. They gain the hours and flight experience that they can't get in their home country, but where's the benefit to the country and the locals? If it's true that Susi Air employs 99% foreign pilots, then how can local pilots benefit from this?

Therefore, I agree with Rustam, that this is very much an ethical issue as well as legal one and it undermines the whole reason for why the Indonesian Ministry of Manpower brings in expat workers to Indonesia and that is to benefit the country.

[cintamu]

guys we are talking about SA ethical is not in SA dictionary...
there is nothing ethical about SA not even the pilots!
she wants to get what she wants!
question is what does she wants? SA is only a way for her to get to the top...
Powerful people are like her have the same problem, the more you have the more you want!
sometimes she has bigger eyes than her own stomach and that what will ruin the whole thing because she lives on dreams and not reality!
she is a business woman and she think she is indispensable to the whole aviation industry or else.
Today she is in trouble and once again its too late it has always been like that!
People are just waiting to see this company bankrupt!
when those special contacts will fall she will too!

[kapt z]

we can do it ourselves

`Bob
quote"Anybody with a little understanding knows that you are not needed to fly light airplanes in Indonesia. We can do that ourselves if we get the chance!"

perhaps you cant given the data below ( only went back to 2006 for argument sake) I don't see your nemisis Susiair on the list.


ASN Aviation Safety Database

13-APR-2010Boeing 737-322 PK-MDE Merpati Nusantara 0 Manokwari-Re...
11-FEB-2010ATR-42-300 PK-YRP Trigana Air Service 0 near Balikpapan-S...
28-JAN-2010Antonov 26B 4L-IFE Aquiline International, opf. Manunggal Air 0 Wamena Airpo...
02-DEC-2009Fokker 100 PK-MJD Merpati Nusantara 0 Kupang-Eltar... A2 02-NOV-2009PZL M28-05PI Skytruck P-4202 Indonesian Police fatalities4 near Mulia
07-SEP-2009GAF Nomad N.24A P-837 Indonesian Navy fatalitie5 Long Apung, ...
02-AUG-2009DHC-6 Twin Otter 300 PK-NVC Merpati Nusantara fatalities15 near Oksibil Airp... A1 29-JUN-2009DHC-6 Twin Otter 300 PK-BRO Aviastar Mandiri fatalities3 near Wamena Airpo... A1
14-JUN-2009Dornier 328-110 PK-TXN Express Air 0 Tanahmerah A... A2 20-MAY-2009Lockheed C-130H Hercules A-1325 Indonesian AF fatalities97+ 2 near Madiun-Iswah...
09-APR-2009British Aerospace BAe-146-300 PK-BRD Aviastar Mandiri fatalities 6 near Wamena (WMX)
06-APR-2009Fokker F-27 Friendship 400M A-2703 Indonesian AF fatalities 24 Bandung-Huse..
. 09-MAR-2009MD-90-30 PK-LIL Lion Airlines 0 Jakarta-Soek... A2 06-NOV-2008Dornier 328-110 PK-TXL Express Air 0 Fak Fak Airp...
27-AUG-2008Boeing 737-2H6 PK-CJG Sriwijaya Air 0 Jambi-Sultan... A2 26-JUN-2008CASA/Nurtanio NC-212-M Aviocar A-2106 Indonesian AF fatalities18 near Tegal Lilin
06-MAR-2008Transall C-160NG PK-VTQ Manunggal Air 0 Wamena Airpo...
30-JAN-2008DHC-6 Twin Otter Aviastar Mandiri 0+ 1 Sugapa Airpo... A2 26-JAN-2008CASA/IPTN NC-212 Aviocarf 200 PK-VSE Dirgantara Air Services fatalities3 near Malinau
30-DEC-2007GAF Nomad N.22B P-833 Indonesian Navy fatalities5 near Sabang
07-MAR-2007Boeing 737-497 PK-GZC Garuda fatalities21 Yogyakarta-A...
21-FEB-2007Boeing 737-33A PK-KKV AdamAir 0 Surabaya-Jua... A1 01-JAN-2007Boeing 737-4Q8 PK-KKW AdamAir fatalities102 near Pambauang 24-DEC-2006Boeing 737-4Y0 PK-LIJ Lion Airlines 0 Ujung Pandan... A2 17-NOV-2006DHC-Twin Otter 300 PK-YPY Trigana Air Service fatalities12 Puncak Jaya A1

[rustam]

Siapa itu?

Pertamina, info found on Wiki:

Pertamina (Perusahaan Tambang Minyak Negara, lit. 'State Oil Extraction Company') is an Indonesian government-owned corporation which extracts and refines the country's oil and gas reserves. It was created in August 1968 by the merger of Pertamin (established 1961) and Permina (established 1957). Pertamina is the world's largest producer and exporter of Liquefied Natural Gas.

In 1957, Dutch assets in petroleum were nationalized, from which Permina was founded as a state-owned oil monopoly, headed by Lieutenant-General Ibnu Sutowo. Ibnu Sutowo's position as the second deputy of Abdul Haris Nasution was the beginning of the army's involvement in the oil industry. Permina distributed oil for the entire archipelago.

In 1960, the Congress enacted a policy that the mining of Indonesian oil and ground gases are only permitted for the state, through a state-administered company. Pertamin, established in 1961, was responsible for the administration, management and controlling of the exploration and production. The policy was short lived. An agreement between the state and foreign companies was affirmed that gradually, oil refinement manufactures and other assets in marketing and distribution were to be sold to Indonesia within five to fifteen years.

In 1973, the government's ability to borrow money from overseas was constrained, and Pertamina was no longer providing revenues to the state. Instead, the massive enterprise turned out not to be making money, but compiling exponentially large losses. In February 1975, Pertamina could no longer pay its American and Canadian creditors. An investigation followed, which revealed over US$10 billion in debts, mismanagement, and corruption within the company. This debt was equivalent to approximately thirty percent of Indonesia's GNP at the time. Others offer a figure of a $15 billion debt. A public investigation hurt the reputation of the national elite both among Indonesians and foreigners. The man most responsible for the collapse, Ibnu Sutowo, was never punished. He and his family were among the richest and most powerful in Indonesia, into the 21st century. The government took over the operation of the company and sought means by which to repay its debts. Pertamina's debt problems were eventually solved through a large government bail-out, which nearly doubled Indonesia's foreign debt.

[rustam]

I'm so smart

If you dont pay your fuel bill on time,
you wont get fuel for your planes.

[rustam]

To Kapten z

Hi Kapten Z

Some info for you, found on Wiki:

In October 2008, a Diamond DA-40 (registration PK-VVL) from Susi Air made an emergency landing on a firing range in the hilly Army Infantry Training Center compound, some 40 kilometers from the West Java provincial capital Bandung. The pilot was forced to make an emergency landing because of engine problems. The aircraft's propeller gear was damaged after hitting the ground on the uneven grass field. Besides the Pilot, the airplane was carrying two mechanics to fix another Susi Air airplane that had broken down at Nusawiru airport.

A couple of questions for you:

- Are you currently employed by susi air?

If yes:
- Do you hold a valid Indonesian CPL?
- Do you hold a KITAS?
- Do you have a work permit?
- Do you have a tax number?
- Do you have Security Clearance?

[kapt z]

suiair

Rustam

No i dont work there, just bringing to attention that despite all your claims of how bad that place is, the safety record speaks for itself, which one of those wonderful aviation companies do you work for?? How many of your precious airlines are blacklisted from the EU.Ah yes, now you will respond with but the corruption !! Now take the time to reflect on your own DGCA, accepting bribes IS corruption. Hmm ethics mate.

PK-AAA

found on wikki
Relevance is a term used to describe how pertinent, connected, or applicable something is to a given matter. A thing is relevant if it serves as a means to a given purpose. Imagine a patient suffering a well-defined disease such as scurvy caused by lack of vitamin C. The relevant medical treatment for him would be doses of tablets containing vitamin C (ascorbic acid). Other medicines, such as vitamin B, are non-relevant. Given this example, we can generalize and have the following
Definition: Something (A) is relevant to a task (T) if it increases the likelihood of accomplishing the goal (G), which is implied by T. (Hjørland & Sejer Christensen,2002).
A thing might be relevant, a document or a piece of information may be relevant. The basic understanding of relevance does not depend on whether we speak of "things" or "information".

[rustam]

to Kapten Z

Quote from Infrequent flyer:

Ya, SA has bribed the Director Jendral of Imigration enuf that the pilot not need Imigration Permit. Ciawi / Tasik office of Imigration has no power to stop Susi Air in there area. Also Police have no power. Maybe situation will stay like that if Susi stay friends with Surya Paloh and other powerful people.

Unquote

I won't get drawn into an endless debate to determine who started corruption in Indonesian aviation.

If you knew a little bit more about susi air, you would have to agree that this company is openly and most blatantly braking all the licensing and visa rules.

As to the relevance of PK-AAA's post, picture this: jet fuel that is spilled off the fuel truck is not lost for everybody.

[kapt z]

rustam

Ok we agree not to debate the corruption issue.

Now if you are all out to save aviation in Indonesia, why not address issues rather than just go after one company and whine like an old lady, as i am sure that they are not the only problem in Indonesia.

Poor training, corrupt regulatory officials, lack of oversight are a few that could be discussed in a constructive manner.

have you been wronged by Susiair, fired by them, they stole and ate your dog, pilot slept with your wife? Why the crusade solely against them.

Flame on

[rustam]

ha ha ha

Very funny the "pilot slept with your wife" joke!!!

I fail to see the relevance of what would be a purely private matter.


My turn to crack on funny jokes:

Can you spell: austrailia?

[kapt z]

wsss

Mate i have ni idea of the number of AOG, however a number of things could contribute as high utilisation, pilot error ( is this what you are getting at), poor ground handleing.

The fact that they are as you say AOG means the pilots or maintenance are not allowing the aircraft to fly in that condition, in which i think we all can agree is a good thing.

Rustam
the relevance is that you seem to have a hate for all things Susiair, just trying to understand why. As to being to personal, i would think the comment from the previous thread regarding a pilot with VD would be personal as well.

as for your other questions
nine, nine, nine ( german for no!)

[rustam]

Oh Yes!

"i have ni idea of the number of AOG"
if you don't know then watch listen and learn

"high utilisation'
those planes don't fly that much

"poor ground handleing"
as in "maintenance performed by non qualified personnel?"

German for no is spelt nein.

Personal issues such as illness have no place on this forum.

Mister Kapten Z, I am still trying to understand where you are coming from, metaphorically, of course.