unemployed 250 hour cpl holder,how to explain to frnds and family??
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everyday days I meet guys like you doing their cpl and thinking they will get a job on a big jet, if not on a small jet.
these guys make me laugh knowing the worldwide crisis.
as I know there will be no job for 250hours pilot for maybe 5-6 years.
you have no idea by the number of pilots still in training, and the one still looking after 10 years, or even 15 years, and still don't have a job and have now 500-1000hours they paid themselves.
I know guys who have waited for 10 years, and in 10 years they got a job for only 3 months, and have been laid off and now are looking again.
20 years ago, my flight instructor received a call from a compamy, and the company asked him if he wanted to pay for his type rating, if no, no job for him...he had to refused.
today we have to pay for type rating and pay to fly.Tomorrow this job will be only a hobby where people will work for 1 year just for the fun of flying a Boeing.
If you wan fly a boeing tomorrow, get a normal job, save around 50'000$ and then give it to a local company.
I bet after you have worked so hard to save 50'000$, you will say they can stick their"job" in their "rear entry".
as some said : "go to Africa and become a bush pilots"... OK! and then? what do you do when you have 3000h on c182, making peanuts and you still survive or can not save any money.
airlines dont' care about hours, they care about how much they can make from you.so get you 50'000$, go see an airline and tell them you are willing to give your $ and make 500hours....and have fun for 6 months.
I give you my special tip:"never ask them if there is a job at the end, and how much they will pay you"
do you think aviation stinks? yes it does!
anyway, good luck to you!
(if i was you and living in India, I would keep my money and I would open a little business...a 7/11 by example)
these guys make me laugh knowing the worldwide crisis.
as I know there will be no job for 250hours pilot for maybe 5-6 years.
you have no idea by the number of pilots still in training, and the one still looking after 10 years, or even 15 years, and still don't have a job and have now 500-1000hours they paid themselves.
I know guys who have waited for 10 years, and in 10 years they got a job for only 3 months, and have been laid off and now are looking again.
20 years ago, my flight instructor received a call from a compamy, and the company asked him if he wanted to pay for his type rating, if no, no job for him...he had to refused.
today we have to pay for type rating and pay to fly.Tomorrow this job will be only a hobby where people will work for 1 year just for the fun of flying a Boeing.
If you wan fly a boeing tomorrow, get a normal job, save around 50'000$ and then give it to a local company.
I bet after you have worked so hard to save 50'000$, you will say they can stick their"job" in their "rear entry".
as some said : "go to Africa and become a bush pilots"... OK! and then? what do you do when you have 3000h on c182, making peanuts and you still survive or can not save any money.
airlines dont' care about hours, they care about how much they can make from you.so get you 50'000$, go see an airline and tell them you are willing to give your $ and make 500hours....and have fun for 6 months.
I give you my special tip:"never ask them if there is a job at the end, and how much they will pay you"
do you think aviation stinks? yes it does!
anyway, good luck to you!
(if i was you and living in India, I would keep my money and I would open a little business...a 7/11 by example)
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Aviation does stinks...with all these self funded TR...has taken it down S&^T HOLE....
.
I 'll NEVER LET ANY OF MY KIDS OR FRIENDS EVER GET INTO AVIATION...
Thats My TR worth...2 cents....
.I 'll NEVER LET ANY OF MY KIDS OR FRIENDS EVER GET INTO AVIATION...
Thats My TR worth...2 cents....
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Respectfully, you only have 250 hours.
When I was close to 350 hours as a Comm/IA/MEL, I went to the Caribbean to attempt a job at flying cargo DC3s. In a very nice way flight ops told me, "come back when you have 500+, then we'll see".
You have work ahead. If you don't go military, then you'll have to fly your way up to a reasonably steady flying career.
Go get a CFI and get to work man. Time-is-a-wasting!
When I was close to 350 hours as a Comm/IA/MEL, I went to the Caribbean to attempt a job at flying cargo DC3s. In a very nice way flight ops told me, "come back when you have 500+, then we'll see".
You have work ahead. If you don't go military, then you'll have to fly your way up to a reasonably steady flying career.
Go get a CFI and get to work man. Time-is-a-wasting!
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@shanks yeah dude i agree we all went into that herd mentality ,isnt it a culture of our country ,to avoid the rat race for engineering colleges we entered a rat race into aviation...well i believe that things are gonna get better soon and we need to be prepared....i have already applied for an instructors rating at my former instructors school he is willing to take me...will apply for the visa soon ...hope to get it....plan work thr till i get my ATPL
....have also applied in some african charters thats plan NO2.....need to get my things in oder....i had already started my graduation last year 
and would be continuing it through distance learning if i head off to some place.....guys if you have any more ideas or places where people like me can work and get closer to our dream of that right seat in a major carrier that would be really helpfull.......thanks guys 
....have also applied in some african charters thats plan NO2.....need to get my things in oder....i had already started my graduation last year and would be continuing it through distance learning if i head off to some place.....guys if you have any more ideas or places where people like me can work and get closer to our dream of that right seat in a major carrier that would be really helpfull.......thanks guys
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@SOARING HIGH yeah dude was fun going to those airports having fun enjoying the sheer beauty of flying,,,,,,yeah 5153Q ..nice plane it was....
,things work a little differently from where i come from ..till 2007 guys like me went straight to airlines without even have to pay for a TR ,even though those times might not come soon still aviation in india is in its infancy projected to double in 5 years time....but right now things look shi**y ,till the time things improve all of us in india need to sharpen our skills get some odd flying jobs and when the time finally come BE ahead in the herd....
,things work a little differently from where i come from ..till 2007 guys like me went straight to airlines without even have to pay for a TR ,even though those times might not come soon still aviation in india is in its infancy projected to double in 5 years time....but right now things look shi**y ,till the time things improve all of us in india need to sharpen our skills get some odd flying jobs and when the time finally come BE ahead in the herd....
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never give up
Hi. I totally understand you. I am also desperately looking for a job. What I have:
ICAO/JAA CPL-IR+ME, frozen ATPL, 280 hours TT, Class I med., DA-42 w/ G1000, ICAO Level 5, etc, all valid, all current
Also I am an aeroplane engineer (Bsc).
I am very willing and able to relocate immediately to anywhere on the planet.
Nowadays, all this is not good enough for even a phonecall. Hundreds of CVs posted, not one reply.
I don't even have money to buy a gun and shoot myself in the head.
And the best part: I have given up 2 years of Medical School for this nonsense. What can I say? Follow your dreams? Bull****.
ICAO/JAA CPL-IR+ME, frozen ATPL, 280 hours TT, Class I med., DA-42 w/ G1000, ICAO Level 5, etc, all valid, all current
Also I am an aeroplane engineer (Bsc).
I am very willing and able to relocate immediately to anywhere on the planet.
Nowadays, all this is not good enough for even a phonecall. Hundreds of CVs posted, not one reply.
I don't even have money to buy a gun and shoot myself in the head.
And the best part: I have given up 2 years of Medical School for this nonsense. What can I say? Follow your dreams? Bull****.
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everyday days I meet guys like you doing their cpl and thinking they will get a job on a big jet, if not on a small jet. these guys make me laugh knowing the worldwide crisis.
as I know there will be no job for 250hours pilot for maybe 5-6 years.
as I know there will be no job for 250hours pilot for maybe 5-6 years.
(if i was you and living in India, I would keep my money and I would open a little business...a 7/11 by example)
Nearly 40% of pilots with scheduled Indian operators flying transport aircrafts, 737, A320, 777, A340, ATR42/72
had less than 300 hrs total flight time before flying those aircrafts.
This 40% doesn't include pilots who joined from other Indian carriers. Actual number of pilot with less than 300 hrs at the beginning of airline experience will be around 80%.
In next 5-6 years airlines in India will absorb around 2000-2500 first officers with 200-300 hrs flight time..
If they get lucky they can recover the investment in 3-4 years during early career or a single year of late career.
Which business can give you 30% return on all investment with as
little time/effort/talent as a pilot has to put in.
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Hi. I totally understand you. I am also desperately looking for a job. What I have:
ICAO/JAA CPL-IR+ME, frozen ATPL, 280 hours TT, Class I med., DA-42 w/ G1000, ICAO Level 5, etc, all valid, all current
Also I am an aeroplane engineer (Bsc).
I am very willing and able to relocate immediately to anywhere on the planet.
Nowadays, all this is not good enough for even a phonecall. Hundreds of CVs posted, not one reply.
I don't even have money to buy a gun and shoot myself in the head.
And the best part: I have given up 2 years of Medical School for this nonsense. What can I say? Follow your dreams? Bull****.
ICAO/JAA CPL-IR+ME, frozen ATPL, 280 hours TT, Class I med., DA-42 w/ G1000, ICAO Level 5, etc, all valid, all current
Also I am an aeroplane engineer (Bsc).
I am very willing and able to relocate immediately to anywhere on the planet.
Nowadays, all this is not good enough for even a phonecall. Hundreds of CVs posted, not one reply.
I don't even have money to buy a gun and shoot myself in the head.
And the best part: I have given up 2 years of Medical School for this nonsense. What can I say? Follow your dreams? Bull****.
I wish you never have enough money to buy the gun and shoot yourself. If you reach an unsurmountable obstacle in course of life, change the course, life is precious.
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I wish you never have enough money to buy the gun and shoot yourself. If you reach an unsurmountable obstacle in course of life, change the course, life is precious
Well said Jimmy.While flying if we see a CB right ahead of us what do we do? Do we complaint to the gods that it should never have been there and crash your plane? No we divert from our course little to the left or little to the right and safely pass by the CB activity !! Unemployment is one such CB in our lives.Should we crash our lives just because of that CB? No we should alter our course, wait till we are clear of CB and then proceed on course!!Life is too precious to be ended like that.Let this CB pass by after that we can expect clear skies and calm winds !! Cheers..
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an overview...
went through the posts and let me kindly advise fellow ppruners outside of india that most of them are unaware of the ground realities of the indian civil aviation industry..while we welcome words of encouragement and patience as is expected from any peer group.
lets go back to 1992-93...post the opening up of the indian skies, jet and sahara were the first of the pvt airlines that set up shop...followed by modi,east west,nepc,damania and a few regionals like vif and span air etc. thousands of kids like me armed with only a high school education went out to fulfil their goals of flying right seat for an airline ( there was hardly any general aviation then )...some flew in india...a lot went abroad.
by 1996...they all shut!...leaving just jet and sahara..we had pilots with 737/F27/B1900 type ratings suddenly out of jobs..while they got absorbed slowly thousands like me,fresh 250hr CPL's got a rude shock...we raved
ranted, set up an unemployed pilots society..met the civil aviation minister et al..there were just not enough jobs being created to give all of us employment...yes the rich and the influential did get in but the numbers were few..
2000-2002...expansion amongst airlines led to hiring...guys with cpl's from 2000 series were all suddenly renewing their licenses and medicals...a lot of us got employed..some were self sponsored and v.v..
2005...pvt airlines like spice, go and indigo commenced ops...more jobs created..
2007...aggressive expansion plans announced by most players led to a mad scramble to get a CPL...nothing wrong with that..
2008...GLOBAL RECESSION...it was just like when we initially started out at 1996...no jobs but thousands ( this time more people ) of unemployed CPL holders.
2009..rationalisation of fleets and routes...
2010..industry/economy poised for recovery and growth but the outlook is of guarded optimism...
there is no doubt as the economy grows, more cities are linked by air , right seat jobs will be created but slowly so please hang in there..a lot of guys have given good advice..follow it
fyi..my first job came after 6 yrs of unemployment...worked in sales/banking/7-11 (!) but kept my licenses/medicals current and never gave up on my dream..
and yes my first job was on the right of a shiny jet with all of my 300 odd hours and 90% of the new hires were just CPL holders back in business after several years of hibernation..that is the way things are in India..general aviation is a recent phenomena and there is no way in hell you can fault someone to eye that FO job in a big jet/turboprop (in that order! )...thats where the jobs are!...good luck to all of you..stay in touch with airline pilots...you'll feel much better...thats what I did...
lets go back to 1992-93...post the opening up of the indian skies, jet and sahara were the first of the pvt airlines that set up shop...followed by modi,east west,nepc,damania and a few regionals like vif and span air etc. thousands of kids like me armed with only a high school education went out to fulfil their goals of flying right seat for an airline ( there was hardly any general aviation then )...some flew in india...a lot went abroad.
by 1996...they all shut!...leaving just jet and sahara..we had pilots with 737/F27/B1900 type ratings suddenly out of jobs..while they got absorbed slowly thousands like me,fresh 250hr CPL's got a rude shock...we raved
ranted, set up an unemployed pilots society..met the civil aviation minister et al..there were just not enough jobs being created to give all of us employment...yes the rich and the influential did get in but the numbers were few..
2000-2002...expansion amongst airlines led to hiring...guys with cpl's from 2000 series were all suddenly renewing their licenses and medicals...a lot of us got employed..some were self sponsored and v.v..
2005...pvt airlines like spice, go and indigo commenced ops...more jobs created..
2007...aggressive expansion plans announced by most players led to a mad scramble to get a CPL...nothing wrong with that..
2008...GLOBAL RECESSION...it was just like when we initially started out at 1996...no jobs but thousands ( this time more people ) of unemployed CPL holders.
2009..rationalisation of fleets and routes...
2010..industry/economy poised for recovery and growth but the outlook is of guarded optimism...
there is no doubt as the economy grows, more cities are linked by air , right seat jobs will be created but slowly so please hang in there..a lot of guys have given good advice..follow it
fyi..my first job came after 6 yrs of unemployment...worked in sales/banking/7-11 (!) but kept my licenses/medicals current and never gave up on my dream..
and yes my first job was on the right of a shiny jet with all of my 300 odd hours and 90% of the new hires were just CPL holders back in business after several years of hibernation..that is the way things are in India..general aviation is a recent phenomena and there is no way in hell you can fault someone to eye that FO job in a big jet/turboprop (in that order! )...thats where the jobs are!...good luck to all of you..stay in touch with airline pilots...you'll feel much better...thats what I did...
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on a lighter note..
@tmbpilot
so you walk into a party/social gathering and introduce yourself as a pilot...next question..who you flying for??..uhh..ummh...actually I have applied in several airlines..still looking for an opening...you know how it is with the recession and all...( in our times there was no recession..there were simply NO JOBS!)
anyways so now here is a sample of the well meaning/intentioned advice we used to get..
1. why dont you try international airlines like SQ..Emirates..what about Cathay???!
2. have you tried the army or the territorial army.....
3. i thought your mum wanted you to become a doctor like your bhua...why dont you try for the mbbs entrance
4. if only you would have taken our advice..its a very risky profession
5. cant you look for a job in the US!
6. the best.....why dont you fly choppers@###..there is a lot of demand nowadays!
kindly add/update...
so you walk into a party/social gathering and introduce yourself as a pilot...next question..who you flying for??..uhh..ummh...actually I have applied in several airlines..still looking for an opening...you know how it is with the recession and all...( in our times there was no recession..there were simply NO JOBS!)
anyways so now here is a sample of the well meaning/intentioned advice we used to get..
1. why dont you try international airlines like SQ..Emirates..what about Cathay???!
2. have you tried the army or the territorial army.....
3. i thought your mum wanted you to become a doctor like your bhua...why dont you try for the mbbs entrance
4. if only you would have taken our advice..its a very risky profession
5. cant you look for a job in the US!
6. the best.....why dont you fly choppers@###..there is a lot of demand nowadays!
kindly add/update...
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@scorpilot,
From the above list, No.1 & 5 truly stand out!
But the question that drives me really high up the wall has to be :
"After you get employed, phir toh we get free tickets na beta?"
And then I try to explain to them, the really miniscule difference between a Commercial Pilot and a Travel Agent!
From the above list, No.1 & 5 truly stand out!
But the question that drives me really high up the wall has to be :
"After you get employed, phir toh we get free tickets na beta?"
And then I try to explain to them, the really miniscule difference between a Commercial Pilot and a Travel Agent!
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+1 Jimmygill !
With due regards to their flying hours and credentials, what many foreigners and expats like flyprototype dont realise is that things in India work WAY DIFFERENT compared to the western nations, particularly USA.
I spoke to an examiner in Indian Airlines very recently, who is also a DGCA FOI.
He said that he along with hundreds of other rookie pilots joined the national carriers with just a CPL and NO MULTI ENGINE RATING and NO INSTRUMENT RATING ALSO.
However, "astonishingly", all those pilots (along with his colleagues) are close to retirement age with NO ACCIDENTS in their flying careers .. or as some expats love to say .. "SMOKING HOLES IN THE GROUND".
All of them are TRI/TRE qualified on the A320, B737, B777, B747-400 and A-310
In India, it doesnt matter even if there are 10,000 unemployed CPL holders.
Even RIGHT NOW, a wannabe can simply go enroll in a flying school and get a CPL in 8-10 months and get his Indian CPL by the year end, and he/she never knows .. they just might get recruited if any airline starts hiring freshers.
The same fresh CPL holder will be called for airline written test and interviews along with those 10000 odd unemployed CPL holders who have been waiting for years for a job.
Therefore, talent, hardwork, etc HAVE almost a NIL ROLE to play as far as getting a fresher's job is considered since LUCK and JUGAAD play FAR too big a role in this country in this field.
With due regards to their flying hours and credentials, what many foreigners and expats like flyprototype dont realise is that things in India work WAY DIFFERENT compared to the western nations, particularly USA.
I spoke to an examiner in Indian Airlines very recently, who is also a DGCA FOI.
He said that he along with hundreds of other rookie pilots joined the national carriers with just a CPL and NO MULTI ENGINE RATING and NO INSTRUMENT RATING ALSO.
However, "astonishingly", all those pilots (along with his colleagues) are close to retirement age with NO ACCIDENTS in their flying careers .. or as some expats love to say .. "SMOKING HOLES IN THE GROUND".
All of them are TRI/TRE qualified on the A320, B737, B777, B747-400 and A-310
In India, it doesnt matter even if there are 10,000 unemployed CPL holders.
Even RIGHT NOW, a wannabe can simply go enroll in a flying school and get a CPL in 8-10 months and get his Indian CPL by the year end, and he/she never knows .. they just might get recruited if any airline starts hiring freshers.
The same fresh CPL holder will be called for airline written test and interviews along with those 10000 odd unemployed CPL holders who have been waiting for years for a job.
Therefore, talent, hardwork, etc HAVE almost a NIL ROLE to play as far as getting a fresher's job is considered since LUCK and JUGAAD play FAR too big a role in this country in this field.
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@Scor Pilot
Sir your post #32 was excellent.Finally some motivational words from a senior!!May be it will give a better idea of Indian aviation industry to the foreign pilots.
I found post #33 very funny!! I think we should start a new thread " You know you are in India when..." just like the african aviators have a thread "You know you are in Africa when.." in the Africa section.I am sure fresh Indian pilots as well as senior pilots would have plenty of funny incidents to share!!! Laughter is the best medicine and I am sure it will help the unemployed section of our freternity deal with the stress and depression that they are facing !!
Sir your post #32 was excellent.Finally some motivational words from a senior!!May be it will give a better idea of Indian aviation industry to the foreign pilots.
I found post #33 very funny!! I think we should start a new thread " You know you are in India when..." just like the african aviators have a thread "You know you are in Africa when.." in the Africa section.I am sure fresh Indian pilots as well as senior pilots would have plenty of funny incidents to share!!! Laughter is the best medicine and I am sure it will help the unemployed section of our freternity deal with the stress and depression that they are facing !!
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@ scorpilot ....thanks for your advise sir feels gud to hear from an experienced indian aviator who has been in our shoes,will certainly follow your advice.....
hope to be here one day posting about our hard days when its all over
@optimusprime ...yeah its really hard to make people understand the difference between a pilot and a travel agent
@soaring high ..dude we already have a thread like the african one....its called "you know you are in the subcontinent when" ...quite funny
hope to be here one day posting about our hard days when its all over
@optimusprime ...yeah its really hard to make people understand the difference between a pilot and a travel agent
@soaring high ..dude we already have a thread like the african one....its called "you know you are in the subcontinent when" ...quite funny
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@TMB pilot,
Checked out the thread "You know you are in subcontinent when..." and hardly found any humor(That thread is more like expats expressing their disliking about this part of the world and locals defending!!)
Moreover most of the posts were by the expats working in subcontinent.The humor that they tried to create out of their posts,I would call it a black humor.We the aviators living in India will hardly find those posts humoruous at all (Most of the post were about people taking a dump in public or spitting and stuff like that and we already know about those things!!).Though its a thread for the entire subcontinental region majority of the black humor has been directed towards India in perticular.So in order to avoid such a black humor and to have nice,clean aviation related humor (Issues like People taking dump in public,cows sitting on the main road and rikshaw wallas driving like Michael Schoemaker etc etc should be avoided) we should start our own Indian thread and majority of the posts should be posted by Indian aviators!!
P.S : Many thanx to SHANX,Captain_Apache and IndAir_965 for defending our country and taking on expats in the thread " You know you are in subcontinent when..."!!! Cheers!!
Checked out the thread "You know you are in subcontinent when..." and hardly found any humor(That thread is more like expats expressing their disliking about this part of the world and locals defending!!)
Moreover most of the posts were by the expats working in subcontinent.The humor that they tried to create out of their posts,I would call it a black humor.We the aviators living in India will hardly find those posts humoruous at all (Most of the post were about people taking a dump in public or spitting and stuff like that and we already know about those things!!).Though its a thread for the entire subcontinental region majority of the black humor has been directed towards India in perticular.So in order to avoid such a black humor and to have nice,clean aviation related humor (Issues like People taking dump in public,cows sitting on the main road and rikshaw wallas driving like Michael Schoemaker etc etc should be avoided) we should start our own Indian thread and majority of the posts should be posted by Indian aviators!!
P.S : Many thanx to SHANX,Captain_Apache and IndAir_965 for defending our country and taking on expats in the thread " You know you are in subcontinent when..."!!! Cheers!!
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Most of the post were about people taking a dump in public or spitting and stuff like that and we already know about those things!!
in the thread....You know you are in subcontinent when..."!!!
I think you've been drinking too much of that indian water mate, This is NOT that THREAD!
BTW.... WTF is an Indian Aviator?
Blimy, wait. Here it is...
just a CPL and NO MULTI ENGINE RATING and NO INSTRUMENT RATING ALSO and all of them are TRI/TRE qualified.