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Expat Captains in SIA..!!

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Old 7th May 2009, 02:46
  #41 (permalink)  
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King On A Wing,

I hope this thread is just your way of venting your frustrations. So get it all out and leave it in Singapore before you make your way to your next destination especially if its the ME because we already have enough of your kind over here.

If you are so unhappy with SQ and Singapore the only suggestion I have for you is tell everybody you know not to join them. Advise them on how you were ill treated and maybe you could save a few guys from making the biggest mistake of their aviation career!

But its really funny because I can see your kind jumping at the slightest chance of a contract renewal or maybe even returning to SQ when things improve. So it comes back to your original posting......

Keep in mind though there are no unions in the ME to blame and point fault with though you can do usual thing and blame management for all things bad.

All the best mate in whatever you do and wherever you go.
 
Old 7th May 2009, 15:11
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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No body held the provebial gun to your head and told you to go fly for SQ..... All those things you did so you could fly for SQ has nothing to do with SQ... Thats your personal domain......King!!! you gotta leave the sunny shores of spore man!!!!! An unhappy pilot.... is a dangerous pilot!!
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Old 7th May 2009, 15:55
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Then how safe is SQ at the moment.!!!!
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Old 8th May 2009, 00:22
  #44 (permalink)  
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It would be fair to remember that when an expat comes to Singapore to join SIA he becomes a part of Singapore society straight away, he pays tax, rent, utilities bills, medical and dental etc. Singapore is not a typical expat situation where salary is tax free, housing is free, utilities are heavily subsidised, medical and dental are free.

The expat coming to Singapore makes the place his home and has a sense of belonging, (except at the airline where one is always an outsider), the kids go to school and mix freely with the local children and so it goes on, a family unit is established.

Consequently, when one is told the job is over in Singapore, it is much more of a wrench than leaving a place where you were obviously always only ever temporary, being a part of Singapore life does give one a (false) sense of security.

Slayerdude - I don't think you really understand what is going on.

Last edited by parabellum; 8th May 2009 at 12:04. Reason: To specify that I am talking about SQ expats in SIN
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Old 8th May 2009, 01:46
  #45 (permalink)  
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I don't know where you guys get the idea of an unhappy pilot is an unsafe pilot. I believe the same topic was brought up in the ME section! We are professionals, if an unhappy pilot is unsafe then there would probably be about 100 accidents a day or more especially considering the current enviroment.

If any of you pilots think that by pushing this topic of safety and unhappiness to garner some sort of public sympathy or even some press coverage to get better T and C's... please think again!

Unhappiness is like an EICAS message ....it means Get your life in order and if you can't and feel safety is compromised ...then get another job!
 
Old 8th May 2009, 02:20
  #46 (permalink)  
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Parabellum,
Thanks for the support IRT slayerdude.
Needed a bailout there!
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Old 8th May 2009, 04:13
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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345 - I really don't think anyones "trying garner sympathy" with the "unhappy" off handed comments - so dont try and twist the thread in that direction. And I do agree with you, that if it where true, SQ would be a ways behind a lot of other airlines - especially ones in the region you are, or about to work in!

Parabellum - very true and good points. I might add one suggestion is that the expat you describe is generally an SQ expat. There certainly are Expats in Singapore that fall into the absolutely everything provided category.
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Old 12th May 2009, 18:18
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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King... apologies bout the unhappy=dangerous jibe... on my part that was out of line... my bad.

Para- agreed that expats in spore do plant roots down. indeed when roots gets pulled out...family usually takes the brunt....
thats the illusion bout being an expat in spore.... the life you have has roots.... i.e kids school, kids friends, cars club membership...etc.... however it doesn't change the fact that it is a CONTRACT term job.....
hence the mis-illusion... the contract job is never permanent ....subject to the 3 month notice that you or the company can part ways... SQ is not responsible for the roots that one has laid down in trying to make sense of living overseas.
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Old 12th May 2009, 20:37
  #49 (permalink)  
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slayerdude,
No worries mate.All's accepted.And you don't have to be sorry 'bout it.It all comes with the territory.Ths good and sometimes the not so good.One learns to experience it,live with it,and then walk on ahead.
Thanks anyways.
Now for that beer I left by the pool....
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Old 13th May 2009, 01:39
  #50 (permalink)  
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No argument there Slayerdude, I was just pointing out why some expats took getting the 'flick' quite so hard.
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Old 15th May 2009, 13:12
  #51 (permalink)  
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So the company HAS FINALLY posted an approximately 1.1 billion dollar profit for the last fiscal(as I had posted in my first post!).
And we HAVE been advised by COO to expect about 2.5 months bonus.....
But really......where does that actually leave us??
The inevitable retrenchments,or a gradual climb out.
Swine flu is now a thing of the past,the economy's very slowly(but very very surely) looking up,so why should the democles sword still hang above our heads.Or was this all just a tactic to retain highly skilled human resources (pilots) at a lower cost throughout.....??
Hmmm...
I guess we'll never find out will we....
Or will we....

Last edited by King on a Wing; 16th May 2009 at 23:05. Reason: Typos
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Old 29th May 2009, 12:49
  #52 (permalink)  
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Hi,
Have JUST been informed that the ALPA-S and the Managment are to meet up with the MOM for a FINAL meet on this coming monday ie 1st of June 2009.If the 3-4 days Cnpl issued is not resolved and Alpa sticks to its stance of 1 day Cnpl I have been informed by a VERY VERY reliable source that retrenchments are SURE to be next.And both expats AND locals alike shall be affected....!!!
So pray like hell that Alpa-s accepts the 3 day Cnpl and doesn't negotiate.Its non productive FOR ALL PLEASE......!!!
No brainer that.....
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Old 30th May 2009, 14:14
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Many years ago, when the B707 fleet at SQ was the most in numbers, I was approached by a local Captain and asked how to contact ALPA in the USA, as they wanted to form a pilots union.
I passed along the contact telephone numbers, AFTN, SITA and telex details and then mentioned....Albert, you are waisting your time.
The management decides what the roster/pay/leave, days off (etc) will be, and no 'union' will dictate to the airline management.
And managements decisions will be backed up by the respective government minister, make no mistake.
Think of Singapore as similar to HKG...with a happy face painted on, and perhaps a bit of cleaner air.
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Old 31st May 2009, 02:05
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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ONE HUNDRED PERCENT agree with the fine tuned thinking of King and the views of 411A.
If the unions had ANY say whatsoever in the scheme of things then your paycheque would have the ALPA-S president's authorised signature and not the company CFO's.So I guess the one who pays the bills and the salaries will be the one pulling ALL the strings won't he.
Just like King so rightly put.......NO BRAINER!!
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Old 31st May 2009, 02:48
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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The company just made more than 1billion POST TAX profit and yet the point is not clear to some. Even if the downturn sustains, there's no way that SQ will even make a loss in any quarter. And now we have expats who are drumming for all of us to take the 3 days CNPL simply because the management tells you that it's bad? How about this, have you ever thought why they never even wanna discuss with ALPAS the cost savings they are looking at to keep all the pilots right now? And why is it that after ALPAS offers to take paycut, but restorable if the company does stay in the black and it was OUTRIGHT rejected by management?
The answer is very simply, too simple. They want it exactly the way they planned it. The management knew it too well that we do have our CA (I know it a piece of lame Collective Agreement, but we still do have one) to address any poor performance financially. They have to come up with new excuses that we should not be seeing loss but to PREVENT it. Now again, my sources told me that not a problem with ALPAS, but why the refusal in restoring the pay loss if we do make profit? And by the way, why stop at 3 days CNPL? Why not take 10 so that everyone will keep their jobs for sure? The sad news is, IF we accept this, this IS a precedence set for future cost management. Which means, even in good times; if they have excess pilots, you will get CNPL.
Now before anyone of you start shooting, consider this; most if not ALL the locals, and even the sensible expats will agree that we are all willing to consider anything. ONLY if there's a channel to pay us back the pay deduction IF the financial result shows otherwise. I'm sure from most other countries where the expats came from, it's unthinkable that the expats will even have such strong voice to begin with. Let alone trying to just see things from the opportunistic SVP circular and support it blindly.
I for once, am supporting ALPAS as from all the statements from the council, I see all sincerity in offering solution. It's the management side that's trying to play unethical game here. There's no freaking way that we should take the CNPL without a clause to back ourselves up,period.
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Old 31st May 2009, 05:49
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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Agree with you 777
I'm a shareholder in SIA and i think it's obscene that the Co. wants their employees to take a paycut, to boost my dividends, while they are still making a substantial profit. I don't want their stolen money.
However, as an employee , i do expect to have my throat cut on Tue. The State has to get back that $50B they lost one way or another.
I wish AlpaS all the best on Tue. Put up a good fight guys, you have so far.
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Old 31st May 2009, 08:00
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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@777 vs 330(nice screen name!)
"Even if the downturn sustains, there's no way that SQ will even make a loss in any quarter".In the FY 2008-9 the company made extraordinary profits in the first 3 quarters and has already bled drastically in the fourth.You should know that!
Quote "I'm sure from most other countries where the expats came from, it's unthinkable that the expats will even have such strong voice to begin with"
And what "strong voice" is this my friend.Being able to speak up in an anoynmous forum like Pprune...???!!?? Don't pull wool over yor eyes my friend.An expat has not even a fraction of the rights that the local has in SQ.And that's a fact.However lets not deviate from the topic at hand....
I can see Alpa-S sacrificing the heads of all/most expats on Monday(just like the proverbial goat!) by NOT accepting the 3 days Cnpl and therefore putting all the expats on the frontlines of retrenchments.How do you justify that position? Will Alpas protect the expat if due to their foolishness and greed the expats are retrenched.Cause it sure wont come down to the locals being retrenched will it?? After all you need to get rid of only 70-80 captains right? No brainer again for Alpa(as king put it!).Simply refuse the Cnpl and let the 80 expat heads roll.Therefore GUARANTEEING the local NO retrenchment.
Unfortunately,this time,I am quite certain that if we don't accept Cnpl,then expat AND local heads will roll....!!!
And I have not even included the poor poor F/O's here,who are going to get crushed innocently in this crossfire.At least 120-140 F/O's are SURE to be retrenched if the 3-4 days Cnpl is NOT acceppted.Would u rather have a 8-10% paycut for a little while OR have no job forever huh?? Think about that guys. With the so called 'paycut' I guarantee you that you will have a show of solidarity with the company while even getting some brownie points AND genuine show of sympathy from ALL the other staff in the company.I guarantee you this!!
And again lets not forget also that the F/O who's been 'retrenched',will sure as hell get his job back asap once the company does better.But does the same happen to this senior expat pilot with a wife ,kids,rent and mortgages due to pay in singapore.I don't think so.Once he's been "let go" I can assure you that he won't return.Nor (i feel) will he be allowed to do so.So there......
Mull over this...

Last edited by boeingdream787; 1st Jun 2009 at 12:36.
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Old 31st May 2009, 08:08
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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ULH Extreme
Well looks like you're one of the luckier ones that have a share of the company..

As for the CNPL, it really won't affect me. My contract is up soon, and have already been told no renewal is gonna be possible. Fortunately for me, I have got my job secured somewhere else. Maybe it's because of my situation (divorced, very mobile, not financially messed up like some,etc.) I'm more aligned with the local boys trend of thoughts. From where I was from, there's no way that this could be allowed. Well there again there's nothing to brag about as I was laid off and had to move on.

I seriously think that it's stupid for ALPAS to swallow this without making sure that someone high up there (the ones who're trying to recover 50B) get to know that the Pilots do wish to share the burden, but with reason and justification in check.

I can't foresee SIA management taking the right move, and deep down, I fear that our spineless flight Ops will consistently take the side of the evil (HR) and shaft this down hard into our throats. So, let's brace for more.
Cheers buddy.
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Old 31st May 2009, 09:49
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boeingdream787 (Yrs not bad too.)
Guess we posted almost at the same time.

Now the same statement over and over again that we hear very often, quote: I am quite certain that if we don't accept Cnpl,then expat AND local heads will roll....!!! Unquote

Please read my points on the nature of how this CNPL is introduced. As I have mentioned, for me, it doesn't affect me anymore. However I do think it's suspicious that they just want 3 days CNPL as and when they deem fit. And NOT wanting any other leeway of managing the cost, do you still believe that it's purely to save expat pilots' jobs? I for once totally did not think so and had started preparing myself well before, since I'm well aware that my contract ends 3rd quarter 09. I was lucky, and got away with another job early and hopefully keeps me busy for next couple of years.

As for the strong expats' voice, IT IS strong here in SIA without a doubt. I do not think we'd have any similar chance of doing the same in most other flag carriers that hire expats. And as expats, somehow in SQ, we are less fit to handle downturns. And to think that ALPAS actually has a say, and that the management will resume contract renewal if ALPAS accept 3 days CNPL; it's really a joke. I may have not be in the company for too long. But I don't need too much time to figure this one out, they (HR) will do exactly how they want it, and that's the bottom line.

As said earlier, the fact is even if ALPAS accepts 3 days CNPL, would you dare hold your breath and say nothing else will come along? Retrenchment list has been prepared right from the first sign of financial crisis, and I have no doubt when the season is right, the spring cleaning will commence.
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Old 31st May 2009, 14:31
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Devil Another 'covert' threat

Another covert threat to the whole pilot group, now focusing on the
'weak' FO's in this company..

Wonder who is going to help this bunch..

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Excerpts below
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CNPL

We are already into the 2nd half of the year and there are no signs of recovery, in spite of talk of ‘green-shoots’ and stock market activity. The last quarter of the past financial year saw a large drop in revenue and the recent reports of H1N1 outbreaks in Japan has dampened travel further preceding the June school holidays.

Some of you have observed full loads on some flights but this must be viewed in light of reduced capacity in certain sectors. Reduced load factors, poor yields and opening up of ASEAN skies have resulted in us ceding flights to MI in KUL, HYD and PEN. SIA Cargo is faring worse.

Many other legacy airlines are bleeding and a major competitor has recently announced cutting First Class on some flights. We would be remiss and irresponsible to ignore the signs and bury our heads in the sand, hoping for a quick turnaround.

To-date the Company has had several meetings with ALPAS. We have also sought joint-mediation with MOM. Unfortunately we have not progressed beyond the interim 1-day CNPL already agreed upon. At these meetings, the company has shown the excess numbers of pilots brought about by capacity cuts.

These numbers were also shown to you at the dialogue sessions. To mitigate the excess crew numbers, we have offered several schemes which some of you have taken up. This included non-renewals of expatriate contracts as their term ends.


The company has, at its meetings with the Association and at the dialogue sessions, shown the actual CNPL days required to absorb the excesses. It varied fleet-by-fleet, and captains from first officers due to operational requirements. The CNPL days went as high as 6 days to zero for varying fleets and by months. The company has committed to capping it to 3 days for captains and 4 days for first officers. This is dependant on monthly rostering requirements. No CNPL was planned for instructors as they are not in excess but the interim 1 day was applied to them arising from the Association’s inputs.


These additional measures beyond the interim 1-day CNPL are necessary to stave off the last resort for retrenchment, which will affect expats and nationals alike.
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