Zest Airways MA60 crash landing in Caticlan - Boracay?
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: China
Posts: 100
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Even in China when Okay airways (The first airline to fly the MA-60 in China) were ready to operate, the aircraft sat on the ground for a few months because the CAAC would not grant certification for it. The MA-60 is a civil version of a military transport. For western countries they have launched a MA-600 which should mean it can pass the stricter rules for western authorities.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: somewhereoutthere
Posts: 166
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why can't we " Pilots" accept that, most endings of an EVENTFUL flight are caused by bad judgements?
Why do we always show our soft side ?, up to the point, as if the individual involved was'nt even at fault. Come on... that plane did not land by itself, somehow those yokes were at one time in the hands of somebody. Capt or Co-pilot i dont care,but he did it very wrong.
Whether that MA60 Aircraft has manufacturing issues or not. The very thing that it almost arrived to its destination, only proves that it was airworthy when it left its departure point.
Think about this? If you have your family on board that plane and learned that the Pilot did something wrong and out of the ordinary, will you not charge him in court for his stupidity??? YOU, being a Pilot.
dont cover his ass guys. He is answerable to his doings, very much.
We dont call for a party for his mistakes, and I dont cheer for his wrong judgement.But, he do needs a quiet time to reflect about the accident.
C1052
Why do we always show our soft side ?, up to the point, as if the individual involved was'nt even at fault. Come on... that plane did not land by itself, somehow those yokes were at one time in the hands of somebody. Capt or Co-pilot i dont care,but he did it very wrong.
Whether that MA60 Aircraft has manufacturing issues or not. The very thing that it almost arrived to its destination, only proves that it was airworthy when it left its departure point.
Think about this? If you have your family on board that plane and learned that the Pilot did something wrong and out of the ordinary, will you not charge him in court for his stupidity??? YOU, being a Pilot.
dont cover his ass guys. He is answerable to his doings, very much.
We dont call for a party for his mistakes, and I dont cheer for his wrong judgement.But, he do needs a quiet time to reflect about the accident.
C1052
Retired Tiger pilot
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Club Morocco. Subic Bay. Philippines
Posts: 460
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why just charge the crew?
Why before doing so or even contemplating such an action fully investigate the whole operator set-up.? Why shoot the messenger?
I would certainly begin looking at the training of all pilots; ground as well as flight training. Was it adequate, are the crew trained in CRM, how many check rides do they perform into 'short' airstrips, who teaches them such 'low' approachs that nessesitate road closures to permit landings, are they operating outside of the aircraft's performance envelope. Have a very good look at the operator's culture; look at the senior flight management; the company financial strength. Investigate fully all aspects of the operation before 'shooting the pilots'.
As you should be well aware of, an accident may not be the result of just hitting a runway; it could be the result of many factors, poor airmanship, inadequate training, company pressure,peer pressure , poor CRM, crew status, or a host of other factors in place well prior to an accident, all coming together as the 'Swiss Cheese' example. Result. an accident.
I hope that RP authorities can and do complete a thorough investigation into this accident in light of many other undershoots or over-runs in the past few years. There appears to be deficiencies in basic flying standards.
Happy safe flying!
There may be a valid point about the safety and integrity of the aircraft, but I wonder why I belive none are flying or certified under JAR or FAR rules.
Why before doing so or even contemplating such an action fully investigate the whole operator set-up.? Why shoot the messenger?
I would certainly begin looking at the training of all pilots; ground as well as flight training. Was it adequate, are the crew trained in CRM, how many check rides do they perform into 'short' airstrips, who teaches them such 'low' approachs that nessesitate road closures to permit landings, are they operating outside of the aircraft's performance envelope. Have a very good look at the operator's culture; look at the senior flight management; the company financial strength. Investigate fully all aspects of the operation before 'shooting the pilots'.
As you should be well aware of, an accident may not be the result of just hitting a runway; it could be the result of many factors, poor airmanship, inadequate training, company pressure,peer pressure , poor CRM, crew status, or a host of other factors in place well prior to an accident, all coming together as the 'Swiss Cheese' example. Result. an accident.
I hope that RP authorities can and do complete a thorough investigation into this accident in light of many other undershoots or over-runs in the past few years. There appears to be deficiencies in basic flying standards.
Happy safe flying!
There may be a valid point about the safety and integrity of the aircraft, but I wonder why I belive none are flying or certified under JAR or FAR rules.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: bangkok
Posts: 85
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mishandling of an Emergency
What else did the aviation circle in the Philippines expect from this nearly "fly-by-night" operator Zest Air as to mishandle even the simplest assistance during the crash landing to victims as well as fellow passengers!
Here again a story about what happened there.
In This Game of Life… 2009 January 11
Unfortunatrly I don't speak Tagalog and maybe somebody can translate the replies:
Here again a story about what happened there.
In This Game of Life… 2009 January 11
A sad news…
Three of my cousins were included in Zest Air, formerly Asian Spirit crash landing in Caticlan, Boracay this morning. Its a tragic event that awaken all of us at 7am, when one of my cousins who was on board the said plane called us to inform us that they were hurt when the plane landed in the runway of the airport. Apparently, this Boracay trip is the honeymoon trip of my cousin, who got married last Friday. They were supposed to travel in group of 10pax but since they cannot get a booking for all of them for the same flight, three of my cousins took the first flight. The rest of them, including the newlyweds and some friends from Canada was supposed to take the 8am flight.
Apparently, ground crew of Zest Air were not informing the rest of the passengers who were waiting in the airport why the next flight was delayed and claiming that they didn’t know what happened in Caticlan airport. Flights in the morning were cancelled and re routed to Kalibo Aklan. At first Zest Air management doesnt want to refund the airfare tickets of my cousins who are taking the next flight and instead offering that they would just take another plane. But all of us didnt agree because we cannot allow them to take any chances in risking the safety of their lives. My cousin, Jen who was complaining then was escorted to the VIP room in the airport so she wont create commosion to the other passengers. In fact, their statement up to this time was it was all because of the strong wind.
Those three cousins were rushed to the nearby hospital. 2 had stitches and 1 had a big bump on her head when the luggage in the compartment fell on her.
As of this time, we are all waiting for them to be airlifted from Caticlan back to Manila. We are demanding the management of Zest Air to compensate my cousins. We still cannot talk much to our 3 cousins as all of them are still in pain and shock on what happened. Its a trauma for them so as for all of us here who are waiting for their safe way back home.
Three of my cousins were included in Zest Air, formerly Asian Spirit crash landing in Caticlan, Boracay this morning. Its a tragic event that awaken all of us at 7am, when one of my cousins who was on board the said plane called us to inform us that they were hurt when the plane landed in the runway of the airport. Apparently, this Boracay trip is the honeymoon trip of my cousin, who got married last Friday. They were supposed to travel in group of 10pax but since they cannot get a booking for all of them for the same flight, three of my cousins took the first flight. The rest of them, including the newlyweds and some friends from Canada was supposed to take the 8am flight.
Apparently, ground crew of Zest Air were not informing the rest of the passengers who were waiting in the airport why the next flight was delayed and claiming that they didn’t know what happened in Caticlan airport. Flights in the morning were cancelled and re routed to Kalibo Aklan. At first Zest Air management doesnt want to refund the airfare tickets of my cousins who are taking the next flight and instead offering that they would just take another plane. But all of us didnt agree because we cannot allow them to take any chances in risking the safety of their lives. My cousin, Jen who was complaining then was escorted to the VIP room in the airport so she wont create commosion to the other passengers. In fact, their statement up to this time was it was all because of the strong wind.
Those three cousins were rushed to the nearby hospital. 2 had stitches and 1 had a big bump on her head when the luggage in the compartment fell on her.
As of this time, we are all waiting for them to be airlifted from Caticlan back to Manila. We are demanding the management of Zest Air to compensate my cousins. We still cannot talk much to our 3 cousins as all of them are still in pain and shock on what happened. Its a trauma for them so as for all of us here who are waiting for their safe way back home.
Comments
- Comment by jean on January 11, 2009 @ 11:43 pm
OMG! I just saw the plane that crashed just this morning at the news (Umagang Kay Ganda)…It’s really a traumatic experience talaga. I pray for your cousins’ safety flight back in Manila.
jeans last blog post..This is what you call UNCONDITIONAL LOVE.
- Comment by Yen on January 11, 2009 @ 11:53 pm
OMG! I hope they aren’t hurt that bad! My prayers and thoughts, Jody! Yan pa naman sinakyan namin last year nung nag Bora kami! hay..Ingat lagi!
- Comment by Vina on January 12, 2009 @ 6:05 am
hi jody! grabe, nakakatakot naman. i hope your cousins are okay na. naku, we’re flying pa naman sa thursday and i’m getting so scared…
anyway, thank you so much for the OB thing. yes, we’re most likely getting dra. aguilar. i was looking for an intellicare-accredited OB kasi my old OB, though she’s very good, is not accredited with intellicare. i found dra. aguilar very nice naman. when i mentioned your name nga, alam mo bang nag-light up ang mukha nya?
sabi nya - “coordinator mo si jody?” hehe. i just replied that my husband was an former officemate of you and dicky. tapos nun, ok na kme. i went alone kasi so sobrang kaba ko talaga. at least now kampante ako. before i left, she said na i-send ko daw regards nya sa inyo. super thanks again.
Vinas last blog post..A Wonderful Discovery
- Comment by mm on January 12, 2009 @ 7:22 am
naku so scary naman what happen to ur cousins, i hope they’re ok na
mms last blog post..Best Japanese Food
- Comment by Jacqui on January 12, 2009 @ 8:05 am
Ay naku, scary yan news na yan … and to think nag-Asian Spirit buong sales team last year, naku…katakot!
Ayan, ayaw bigla ni Mike mag-bora…hahaha!
Anyway, luckily nothing major happened with the passengers. Praying for your cousins swift recovery.
Jacquis last blog post..B is for vacation …
- Comment by jeanny on January 12, 2009 @ 1:53 pm
i saw this new yesterday. Grabe…hope your cousins are okay na.
jeannys last blog post..Cooking time
- Comment by Jody on January 12, 2009 @ 2:13 pm
Hello Jean! Thanks! Yes, we need prayers cause it was a very traumatic experience for them. They were now in Medical City since last night, being treated. Halos di daw sila makahinga sa plane (cebu pac) last night on their way back to Manila.
- Comment by Jody on January 12, 2009 @ 2:17 pm
Hello yen! Thans for the prayers. Apparently, nung una kala nila di sila masyadong in pain pero last night, super sakit ng mga katawan nila. One of my cousin, (the girl, I was with when I recently went to HK) had stitches on her legs. When I saw it last night, I was shocked, ang lalim kasi. Then yung isa naman, ang daming bruises. And last night she was complaining of neck pain so she was on therapy. The BF of my cousin naman, his legs and back, ang balakang area. Hay, katakot talaga what happened to them.
- Comment by Jody on January 12, 2009 @ 2:41 pm
Hello Vina! Kakakot nga bigla mag ride ng plane. I never thought it could happen to a very close relatives. Ingat na lang on Thursday. Anyway, glad you like Dra. Aguilar. yes, she knows Im a coordinator kaya nga alam nya na pati delivery sched ko eh nakaschedule talaga dapat.
- Comment by Jody on January 12, 2009 @ 2:43 pm
Hello MM! Scary talaga. Imagine, naalipungatan ako when my mom called us in the room to break the news. At first, di pa namin full details, ang sabi plane crash, not crash landing. Umiiyak na talaga ako habang pababa ng stairs. Di ko malaman kung sino una kong tatawagan! Then sabi nasa hospital daw sa caticlan. We called them, nakausap ko yung isang cousin ko, she was crying on the phone. Naku, we all gathered in my lola’s place para maplano pano sila matulungan.
- Comment by Jody on January 12, 2009 @ 2:50 pm
Jacq, bigla ngang nakakatakot magplane. Accident do happen talaga. Although, ang daming pagkukulang ng zest air sa kanila. Eh yung isa pang cousin ko na kasama dun eh, yun ang companion ko when we went to HK recently, at yun ang most travelled sa amin. Yesterday daw pabalik ng Manila via Cebu Pacific, parang magpapalpitate sya. Trauma talaga ang dala sa kanila. Imagine, when the plane hit the wall, nag-amoy gas na yung buong plane, then takbuhan mga passengers sa loob para lumabas. Labas na raw mga bakal bakal ng plane kaya din sya nasugatan ng malalim sa legs. It was so fast lang daw lahat ng pangyayari. medyo mataas pa adrenalin rush nila when they were running tsaka di pa sya in pain. Apparently, she noticed na lang na basang basa na yung left leg nya ng blood when they got in the hospital, it was running on her slippers na. Grabe, talaga. Nganilabot ako dahil I’m really supposed to join that Boracay trip, kasama ako sa plano. Then I begged off nung Dec kasi dami kong pending work. Then nung when they were planning na their flight, bigla kong gustong sumama. Pero di ko na macancel my meetings till wednesday kaya di na lang din ako tumuloy. Eh malamang kasama ako sa first flight. Kasi yung newlywed kong cousin ang 2nd flight because of her kids, di magising ng maaga. Eh dahil magkalapit kami ng house nung mga kasama sa plane crash, pretty sure dun ako sa first flight. Grabe, katakot talaga. Now, they are in medical city na. Naka-confine sila.
- Comment by Jody on January 12, 2009 @ 2:50 pm
Hello Jeanny! Thanks! They are now in Medical City being treated.
- Comment by thea on January 13, 2009 @ 12:36 am
Syete! Natakot talaga ako sa news na yun kasi hubby’s team was supposed to avail of that promo. meaning kung natuloy sila, kasama kami ni Mikee. ang mura kasi eh.
Good to hear na di nmn grabe nangyari sa cousins mo. at least stitches and bruises lang, alam mo na. pero ang mahirap jan yung trauma. buti di nasabay mga kids. nakaka-worry yung mga kids dun sa plane, traumatic yun syempre. (I read that there were kids hurt eh)
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: bangkok
Posts: 85
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is this what Zest Air does to their passengers after a crash?
The service level of Zest Air is not only below ZERO, it is completly absent.
The victims should sue Zest Air especially that the aircraft is operated OUTSIDE the FAA and EASA standards and certifications!
But Pinoys seem to take matters very easy and only complain.
The nightmare for the victims goes on:
In This Game of Life… Blog Archive Update on Cousins…
And here some comments to the blog. Maybe somebody who speaks Tagalog can translate.
The victims should sue Zest Air especially that the aircraft is operated OUTSIDE the FAA and EASA standards and certifications!
But Pinoys seem to take matters very easy and only complain.
The nightmare for the victims goes on:
In This Game of Life… Blog Archive Update on Cousins…
Update on Cousins…
What happened in Crash Landing of Zest Air and some details:
1. They were moved back to Manila from Caticlan airport via Cebu Pacific.
2. No representative of Zest Air came to their rescue until after lunch of that dreadful Sunday. Only the porters, and some locals of Caticlan helped them to ride the van so they could be brought to the hospital. They were all by themselves in the hospital after the van dropped them.
3. The representative that they sent was just a cashier of their airline who can’t even decide on what to do to them.
4. They were supposed to be flown back via Kalibo but we were demanding that they airlift them since my other cousin can’t travel by land for 2 hours from Caticlan because of trauma on her ribs. But they said they cannot do that since they don’t have a chopper. Good thing, Caticlan airport opened up again in the afternoon.
5. From the hospital in Caticlan, they were just asked to ride a van to go the airport. No personnel from Zest Air accompanied them. From the airport, it was personnel of Cebu Pacific who took care of them.
6. They were almost palpitating on board Cebu Pacific going back to Manila because of the trauma it has caused them.
7. From the airport, no Zest Air personnel came in the picture to receive them from the plane. They were all pushed through wheel chairs then shuttled directly to an ambulance that brought them to Medical City.
8. It was so annoying that when they got to Medical City, Zest Air personnel endorsed only 1 of my cousins who they believe suffered the most. The two others were requested to be discharged. Of course, our family complained and insisted that the three of them should all be tested and confined to ensure safety and health. Apparently, the two others realized that they also have more bruises than expected.
9. They were confined in Medical City since sunday and has been doing physical rehabilitation since Monday. They are scheduled to be out today. Thank God!
10. No manager from Zest Air came in the hospital to show themselves to the victims (my cousins) and to us relatives until Monday afternoon. The only personnel they sent last Sunday was just like a staff who cannot even decide.
11. My cousins felt that it was a pilot error. They had a first attempt to land already, almost touching the ground when they zoomed in the air again. The first attempt, they almost hit the Cebu Pacific plane parked in the tarmac. The second attempt, it was quick according to them. Landed to the ground and they swayed to the left until they stopped and realized that they bumped a wall. Passengers were in panic inside, all rushing to go out of the plane.
12. Seats were strangled from its position, baggages fell.
13. The cabin crew (flight attendants) were the first one to unboard the plane where in they were the ones supposed to be assisting the passengers and the last one to leave the plane. They were already on the ground when they were shouting to the passengers “Labas na kayong lahat, iwanan nyo na ang mga gamit nyo!” (nakakagigil ang part na ito!)
14. It was crazy inside and there were lots of debris already according to my cousins, probably the reason also why they had lots of wounds and bruises on the legs. Passengers all jumped to get off the plane as the stairs were not put on.
15. My cousin saw the pilot walking before them, they saw him only having a wound on his hands and can even walk properly. So I don’t know why they were saying reports that their pilot were also rushed to the hospital and was unconscious the entire time. Zest Air personnel said he only came back to his consciousness when he was in the hospital. What hospital did they bring the pilot? They were only 5 passengers in the hospital nearest the Caticlan airport, 3 of which were my cousins. (sabi nila, sa makati med daw naging conscious, bakit sya nadala agad sa makati med? bakit my cousins were left in that small hospital until late afternoon without anybody from Zest Air attending to them?)
16. When my cousins were asking the cashier of Zest Air who showed up in the Caticlan hospital if there are personnel of the airline who came from Manila for their rescue, the cashier said, the Manager went to the Boracay Island to assist the other passengers. They never saw a decent person to face them to decide on what to do for them. And what the hell is that personnel doing in Boracay Island when the ones badly hurt are in the hospital. What kind of damage control are they doing for those passengers who still went to enjoy the island? My cousins were the ones who need assistance.
Zest Air crisis management sucks! Their customer service manager can’t even handle the victims and the relatives of the victims. They cannot take it away from us, we are so mad. The lives of our family members were at stake at that time. And their freaking planes are not maintained at all. Ban Zest Air (formerly Asian Spirit). With a lot of history already of crashing planes, their flying permits should be lifted! We wont ever, ever ride this airline anymore!
What happened in Crash Landing of Zest Air and some details:
1. They were moved back to Manila from Caticlan airport via Cebu Pacific.
2. No representative of Zest Air came to their rescue until after lunch of that dreadful Sunday. Only the porters, and some locals of Caticlan helped them to ride the van so they could be brought to the hospital. They were all by themselves in the hospital after the van dropped them.
3. The representative that they sent was just a cashier of their airline who can’t even decide on what to do to them.
4. They were supposed to be flown back via Kalibo but we were demanding that they airlift them since my other cousin can’t travel by land for 2 hours from Caticlan because of trauma on her ribs. But they said they cannot do that since they don’t have a chopper. Good thing, Caticlan airport opened up again in the afternoon.
5. From the hospital in Caticlan, they were just asked to ride a van to go the airport. No personnel from Zest Air accompanied them. From the airport, it was personnel of Cebu Pacific who took care of them.
6. They were almost palpitating on board Cebu Pacific going back to Manila because of the trauma it has caused them.
7. From the airport, no Zest Air personnel came in the picture to receive them from the plane. They were all pushed through wheel chairs then shuttled directly to an ambulance that brought them to Medical City.
8. It was so annoying that when they got to Medical City, Zest Air personnel endorsed only 1 of my cousins who they believe suffered the most. The two others were requested to be discharged. Of course, our family complained and insisted that the three of them should all be tested and confined to ensure safety and health. Apparently, the two others realized that they also have more bruises than expected.
9. They were confined in Medical City since sunday and has been doing physical rehabilitation since Monday. They are scheduled to be out today. Thank God!
10. No manager from Zest Air came in the hospital to show themselves to the victims (my cousins) and to us relatives until Monday afternoon. The only personnel they sent last Sunday was just like a staff who cannot even decide.
11. My cousins felt that it was a pilot error. They had a first attempt to land already, almost touching the ground when they zoomed in the air again. The first attempt, they almost hit the Cebu Pacific plane parked in the tarmac. The second attempt, it was quick according to them. Landed to the ground and they swayed to the left until they stopped and realized that they bumped a wall. Passengers were in panic inside, all rushing to go out of the plane.
12. Seats were strangled from its position, baggages fell.
13. The cabin crew (flight attendants) were the first one to unboard the plane where in they were the ones supposed to be assisting the passengers and the last one to leave the plane. They were already on the ground when they were shouting to the passengers “Labas na kayong lahat, iwanan nyo na ang mga gamit nyo!” (nakakagigil ang part na ito!)
14. It was crazy inside and there were lots of debris already according to my cousins, probably the reason also why they had lots of wounds and bruises on the legs. Passengers all jumped to get off the plane as the stairs were not put on.
15. My cousin saw the pilot walking before them, they saw him only having a wound on his hands and can even walk properly. So I don’t know why they were saying reports that their pilot were also rushed to the hospital and was unconscious the entire time. Zest Air personnel said he only came back to his consciousness when he was in the hospital. What hospital did they bring the pilot? They were only 5 passengers in the hospital nearest the Caticlan airport, 3 of which were my cousins. (sabi nila, sa makati med daw naging conscious, bakit sya nadala agad sa makati med? bakit my cousins were left in that small hospital until late afternoon without anybody from Zest Air attending to them?)
16. When my cousins were asking the cashier of Zest Air who showed up in the Caticlan hospital if there are personnel of the airline who came from Manila for their rescue, the cashier said, the Manager went to the Boracay Island to assist the other passengers. They never saw a decent person to face them to decide on what to do for them. And what the hell is that personnel doing in Boracay Island when the ones badly hurt are in the hospital. What kind of damage control are they doing for those passengers who still went to enjoy the island? My cousins were the ones who need assistance.
Zest Air crisis management sucks! Their customer service manager can’t even handle the victims and the relatives of the victims. They cannot take it away from us, we are so mad. The lives of our family members were at stake at that time. And their freaking planes are not maintained at all. Ban Zest Air (formerly Asian Spirit). With a lot of history already of crashing planes, their flying permits should be lifted! We wont ever, ever ride this airline anymore!
Comments
- Comment by Jen on January 14, 2009 @ 2:18 am
Hi Jody,
Sharing this: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3323/3188525040_8dab641f50.jpg?v=0
This is so terrible — I’m really sorry about your cousins. If I were in your shoes, I’d be just as livid. Scandalous (towards Zest Air) would be an understatement!
I hope your cousins are doing better and I thank you so much for posting this. I’m such a big fan of Boracay (and cheap deals too!) but now I know I will never fly this airline.
Jens last blog post..2 years ago today.
- Comment by Jody on January 14, 2009 @ 3:50 am
Hello Jen! My cousins took picture nga rin of the plane when they got off. It is such a pity cause when I was looking at their cameras, the first few shots were they were very happy boarding the plane, all smiles while they posed also inside the plane then last 3 pics were the crashed plane. Apparently, their airfares were not even the cheapest. It was almost on regular rate of Php7K++ for round trip. We really felt that there was a pilot mistake along the way. We have accepted that the accident had happened. We were thankful that it wasnt a plane crash that dropped in open sea or forest. But what we are so fuming mad about is that they don’t really know how to do crisis management. They should be up on their knees to face the victims and do what is best for them. Instead of just waiting for our demands. Yes, dont ever fly this airline again.
- Comment by peachy on January 14, 2009 @ 6:12 am
at nauna pa ang mga flight attendants bumaba??? WTF! sigurado bang may management yang zest air? grabe sila considering mahal ng airfare.
peachys last blog post..Reflux on Babies
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: 1°21'10.20"N - 103°56'36.21"E
Posts: 294
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ASN reports ground personnel injured
ASN Aircraft accident Xian MA60 RP-C8893 Caticlan-Malay Airport (MPH)
"Three airport personnel weere injured because they were hit by debris when the plane crashed against the concrete perimeter fence."
"Three airport personnel weere injured because they were hit by debris when the plane crashed against the concrete perimeter fence."
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: somewhere in Asia
Posts: 162
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
was the MA60 really and properly insured?
i received an email last night with a very interesting linK
Business Mirror - A broader look at today's business - Headlines
could it be possible that this aircraft was not properly insured again at the time of the crash?
Business Mirror - A broader look at today's business - Headlines
Whew! Airline insurer back By Ma. Stella F. ArnaldoSpecial to the BusinessMirrorFLAG carrier Asian Spirit is once more insured by Prudential Guarantee and Assurance Inc., this after the airline revoked its appointment of an insurance broker and committed to settle the carrier’s premiums Wednesday, June 25.
In a letter addressed to Lucio Fernandez, vice president for aviation and marine of Prudential Guarantee, dated June 23, 2008, and received by Prudential at 7:23 p.m., Asian Spirit chief finance officer Albert Toribio said: “After a careful evaluation of the situation, I have decided to revoke the appointment I made in favor of Empire Insurance Co., as exclusive broker of record.
“I hope this letter will set the record straight that we have never rescinded the existing insurance covering our aircraft with your company. It is our desire to continue to preserve our harmonious relationship.”
In his letter, a copy of which was obtained by the BusinessMirror, Toribio added: “As regards to our premium payment for the 2nd Quarter, we will make remittances by Wednesday.”
An official of Prudential Guarantee, who requested anonymity, declined to reveal the actual amount owed by the airline, only to say: “They have not been religious in paying their financial obligations.” Knowledgeable aviation and insurance sources estimated the second-quarter premium of Asian Spirit at some $200,000. Under its previous owners, Asian Spirit’s premiums amounted to $500,000 per quarter.
“It was just a misunderstanding,” said Art Alejandrino, board director of Asian Spirit, of the situation,
which resulted in the airline flying without insurance coverage from June 19 to June 23, 2008.
He made this statement in reference to a letter written by Toribio entitled, “Appointment-Sole & Exclusive Broker on Record” on June 18, 2008, designating “Empire Insurance Co. Inc., as the exclusive insurance company of Asian Spirit for its Aviation,
Hull & Liability, Deductible, War, Personal Accident and other aviation-related insurance requirements.”
Prudential Guarantee managed to secure a copy of Toribio’s appointment letter, causing the insurer to write him on June 19, 2008, saying: “By your unilateral action of appointing another insurance company from the 18th of June 2008, you have, in fact, rescinded your insurance contract with Prudential Guarantee and Assurance Inc. and, therefore, there is no insurance policy in effect from the date of issuance of your letter [June 18, 2008].”
However, CAB sources confirmed there is no insurance contract between Empire Insurance and Asian Spirit. Thus, from June 19 to June 23, Asian Spirit was flying without any insurance cover.
Alejandrino, however, disputed this, saying the airline did not fly any day without insurance coverage. He explained that upon receiving Prudential Guarantee’s letter on June 20, the carrier “made inquiries abroad and we received an e-mail that [Prudential Guarantee] did not issue a notice of cancellation [of its contract with Asian Spirit]” to its reinsurer, AIG. “So all the while, we knew we were covered by Prudential.”
Alejandrino said he would send a copy of said e-mail from AIG but as of 4 p.m. Tuesday, the BusinessMirror had yet to receive it.
Toribio’s letter to Prudential’s Fernandez on June 23 said, “Please note that the issuance of such BOR [broker of record] was made only to determine the fair-market price for insurance coverage such as the company requires, and not intended as a rescission of our existing insurance contract.”
As for Asian Spirit’s premiums which remain unpaid for the second quarter of the year, Alejandrino said: “I assure you, we are a little delayed but not that far off. The delay falls within the normal client-insurer relationship. It is not a cause [for Prudential] to cut our insurance.”
He added that Asian Spirit’s new owner, fruit-juice king and banker Alfredo M. Yao, personally called up Prudential Guarantee’s chairman and chief executive officer Robert Coyiuto Jr. and VP Fernandez at about 7 p.m. Monday to tell them, “If there is such a problem, all you can do is call me.”
Alejandrino added, “I admit there was some miscommunication [between Toribio and Fernandez], but they [Prudential Guarantee] confirmed that we had [insurance] cover as of 7 p.m. [Monday].”
Separate sources said Yao called Fernandez after finding out that the BusinessMirror would publish a story that the carrier was flying without any insurance. “Yao told Fernandez he didn’t know that Toribio had issued an appointment letter in favor of Empire Insurance. He also said that he would instruct Toribio to issue a letter revoking the appointment of Empire Insurance. Yao promised to settle the premium owed to Prudential by Wednesday [January 25].”
Contacted for comment, Fernandez declined to comment on the matter and did not confirm that Yao called him.
An official of Prudential Guarantee who declined to be named, said of the premium payment to be made by Asian Spirit, “It is immaterial.” Asked whether Prudential Guarantee is insuring the carrier again, the official said: “We have been reinstated as their insurer.”
In a letter addressed to Lucio Fernandez, vice president for aviation and marine of Prudential Guarantee, dated June 23, 2008, and received by Prudential at 7:23 p.m., Asian Spirit chief finance officer Albert Toribio said: “After a careful evaluation of the situation, I have decided to revoke the appointment I made in favor of Empire Insurance Co., as exclusive broker of record.
“I hope this letter will set the record straight that we have never rescinded the existing insurance covering our aircraft with your company. It is our desire to continue to preserve our harmonious relationship.”
In his letter, a copy of which was obtained by the BusinessMirror, Toribio added: “As regards to our premium payment for the 2nd Quarter, we will make remittances by Wednesday.”
An official of Prudential Guarantee, who requested anonymity, declined to reveal the actual amount owed by the airline, only to say: “They have not been religious in paying their financial obligations.” Knowledgeable aviation and insurance sources estimated the second-quarter premium of Asian Spirit at some $200,000. Under its previous owners, Asian Spirit’s premiums amounted to $500,000 per quarter.
“It was just a misunderstanding,” said Art Alejandrino, board director of Asian Spirit, of the situation,
which resulted in the airline flying without insurance coverage from June 19 to June 23, 2008.
He made this statement in reference to a letter written by Toribio entitled, “Appointment-Sole & Exclusive Broker on Record” on June 18, 2008, designating “Empire Insurance Co. Inc., as the exclusive insurance company of Asian Spirit for its Aviation,
Hull & Liability, Deductible, War, Personal Accident and other aviation-related insurance requirements.”
Prudential Guarantee managed to secure a copy of Toribio’s appointment letter, causing the insurer to write him on June 19, 2008, saying: “By your unilateral action of appointing another insurance company from the 18th of June 2008, you have, in fact, rescinded your insurance contract with Prudential Guarantee and Assurance Inc. and, therefore, there is no insurance policy in effect from the date of issuance of your letter [June 18, 2008].”
However, CAB sources confirmed there is no insurance contract between Empire Insurance and Asian Spirit. Thus, from June 19 to June 23, Asian Spirit was flying without any insurance cover.
Alejandrino, however, disputed this, saying the airline did not fly any day without insurance coverage. He explained that upon receiving Prudential Guarantee’s letter on June 20, the carrier “made inquiries abroad and we received an e-mail that [Prudential Guarantee] did not issue a notice of cancellation [of its contract with Asian Spirit]” to its reinsurer, AIG. “So all the while, we knew we were covered by Prudential.”
Alejandrino said he would send a copy of said e-mail from AIG but as of 4 p.m. Tuesday, the BusinessMirror had yet to receive it.
Toribio’s letter to Prudential’s Fernandez on June 23 said, “Please note that the issuance of such BOR [broker of record] was made only to determine the fair-market price for insurance coverage such as the company requires, and not intended as a rescission of our existing insurance contract.”
As for Asian Spirit’s premiums which remain unpaid for the second quarter of the year, Alejandrino said: “I assure you, we are a little delayed but not that far off. The delay falls within the normal client-insurer relationship. It is not a cause [for Prudential] to cut our insurance.”
He added that Asian Spirit’s new owner, fruit-juice king and banker Alfredo M. Yao, personally called up Prudential Guarantee’s chairman and chief executive officer Robert Coyiuto Jr. and VP Fernandez at about 7 p.m. Monday to tell them, “If there is such a problem, all you can do is call me.”
Alejandrino added, “I admit there was some miscommunication [between Toribio and Fernandez], but they [Prudential Guarantee] confirmed that we had [insurance] cover as of 7 p.m. [Monday].”
Separate sources said Yao called Fernandez after finding out that the BusinessMirror would publish a story that the carrier was flying without any insurance. “Yao told Fernandez he didn’t know that Toribio had issued an appointment letter in favor of Empire Insurance. He also said that he would instruct Toribio to issue a letter revoking the appointment of Empire Insurance. Yao promised to settle the premium owed to Prudential by Wednesday [January 25].”
Contacted for comment, Fernandez declined to comment on the matter and did not confirm that Yao called him.
An official of Prudential Guarantee who declined to be named, said of the premium payment to be made by Asian Spirit, “It is immaterial.” Asked whether Prudential Guarantee is insuring the carrier again, the official said: “We have been reinstated as their insurer.”
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: somewhere in Asia
Posts: 162
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
what happened on the flight?
in one of the phil. hosted aviation forums i found a few minutes ago a translation and a link which is intersting. the phil. forum has a translation of of a german forum thread on airliner.de by a german passenger of the flight.
for the german speaking "krauts" here the link:
airliners.de - Luftfahrt-Forum - Thema anzeigen - Crash MA-60 11.01.2009 Bericht als PAX
and for us, non-krauts the english translation:
Philippine Flight Simmers Group • View topic - Zest Air plane UNDERshoots Caticlan runway; passengers hurt
there are a few statements in this report which puts doubt on the capabilities of the MA60:
nowhere was any mentioning of 3 pilots on board of the aircraft. does anyone know more about this? who was the third guy?
this shows that the flying pilot had difficulties in making a controlled approach on his first trial. the writer doesn't say into which direction the aircraft drifted. what athe alarm signals? does the MA60 have a GPWS?
it appears from this statement that the MA60 is really underpowered.
where was this first "impact"? does this mean it was not a controlled flair but a very firm landing?
zest air should be charged double landing fees for this landing. from his account it appears that the aircraft made an uncotrolled landing.
any idea where the landing gear collapsed?
there must have been tremendous g-forces upon landing or is the ceiling panel just installed by simple fasteners?
are the seats not installed with the proper g-ratings? this sounds strange to me that a whole seat will get loose during that type of landing. this would also proof that the MA60 is not manufactured according to international standards.
maybe this is the lady which was earlier mentioned by ads1963 and the lady whose seat was ripped off the floor.
these guy must have been in pain. is the x-ray in the philippines so bad not to discover broken rips and legs?
this video might be interesting to us as well as to the accident investigators. maybe we can find it one day on yourtube.
in short: the phil. authorities should interview this passenger to really determine the cause and the airworthiness of the MA60.
btw. i have heard that the crew was the first one to leave the aircraft. any thruth to that?
is there a CVR and FDR on a MA60? are chinese authorities assisting in the investigation?
for the german speaking "krauts" here the link:
airliners.de - Luftfahrt-Forum - Thema anzeigen - Crash MA-60 11.01.2009 Bericht als PAX
and for us, non-krauts the english translation:
Philippine Flight Simmers Group • View topic - Zest Air plane UNDERshoots Caticlan runway; passengers hurt
there are a few statements in this report which puts doubt on the capabilities of the MA60:
There were approximately 20 passengers on board plus three crew in the cockpit and two in the cabin.
Around 6:52 a.m. we were on final to MPH (Caticlan in the "other" airport abbreviation system). An extremely gusty approach. At an altitude of 5 to 10 meters alarm signals were audible from the cockpit (I sat in row 2) and the go-around was initiated. Looking outside my window I could see the whole width of the runway, which means we were already located over the grass beside the runway.
The MA-60 had substantial trouble gaining altitude, most of which was acheived by retracting the landing gear. (possibly flaps retraction too)
After about 5 minutes a renewed attempt. Power reduced during final and the thought "we made it" crossed my mind; in that same moment the first impact. Later on we saw that first parts of the aircraft were lost at that point already.
Second impact already on the grass strip, I saw the runway disappear from beside my window.
The aircraft skidded on it's belly, without propellers and with gear collapsed, after about 200m it veered 180 degrees to the left and came to a stop were wall and fence of the airport perimeter meet.
In the forward cabin section were I was sitting the complete ceyling had collapsed. Three people who were sitting behind me could free themselves.
A lady who sat on the other side of the aisle in row 2 fell into the aisle with her seat. I managed to free myself after around 30 seconds by climbing through fallen cabin panelling and over seats.
About the injuries: said lady had spinal column injury and a broken upper arm.
The rest was mostly smaller injuries. (we had ourselves examined here in Germany, the result was broken ribs and a broken leg)
Registration was RP-C8893, by the way. We filmed the first approach and go-around on video.
in short: the phil. authorities should interview this passenger to really determine the cause and the airworthiness of the MA60.
btw. i have heard that the crew was the first one to leave the aircraft. any thruth to that?
is there a CVR and FDR on a MA60? are chinese authorities assisting in the investigation?
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: 1°21'10.20"N - 103°56'36.21"E
Posts: 294
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MA 60
The MA 60 is known to be under-powered, and weight restricted in operation by another operator, who is forced to fly at 50% capacity, especially when flying into higher altitude airports. And there are serious doubts if it can abort on OEI.
BTW, the only other operators outside Phil are in Laos, Indonesia and Zimbabwe .. .
There was some serious allegation that Philippines is becoming the "flag of convenience" for un-certified aircraft, or banned aircraft ... and with MA 60 being allowed to operate .....
Fly safe ...
(I would assume that the plane came with the 'light weight seats, to ensure the under powered engines can haul the air-frame off the ground ...
BTW, the only other operators outside Phil are in Laos, Indonesia and Zimbabwe .. .
There was some serious allegation that Philippines is becoming the "flag of convenience" for un-certified aircraft, or banned aircraft ... and with MA 60 being allowed to operate .....
Fly safe ...
(I would assume that the plane came with the 'light weight seats, to ensure the under powered engines can haul the air-frame off the ground ...
Last edited by ecureilx; 18th Jan 2009 at 08:41.
Retired Tiger pilot
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Club Morocco. Subic Bay. Philippines
Posts: 460
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MA 60 Underpowered?
Quote:
The MA-60 had substantial trouble gaining altitude, most of which was acheived by retracting the landing gear. (possibly flaps retraction too)
it appears from this statement that the MA60 is really underpowered.
Is it?
Whilst not defending the aircraft but comparing it to similar aircraft capacity and weights, we find that the MA60 provides 1hp for each 3.9ks at MTOW. The F50 gives 1hp for each 4.1ks and the D8-300 1hp for each 3.9ks. And we all know that quite often at mtow, you do not actually leap away like a startled gazelle until gear and flaps are up.
The MA-60 had substantial trouble gaining altitude, most of which was acheived by retracting the landing gear. (possibly flaps retraction too)
it appears from this statement that the MA60 is really underpowered.
Is it?
Whilst not defending the aircraft but comparing it to similar aircraft capacity and weights, we find that the MA60 provides 1hp for each 3.9ks at MTOW. The F50 gives 1hp for each 4.1ks and the D8-300 1hp for each 3.9ks. And we all know that quite often at mtow, you do not actually leap away like a startled gazelle until gear and flaps are up.
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: 1°21'10.20"N - 103°56'36.21"E
Posts: 294
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
numbers and specs
While the specs do look good, operators had a different opinion ...
If you know anybody in the operator in ID, then you may be able to get a frank opinion, on the hot-high performance. I have no clue what transpired subsequently, whether there was a offset package or the reduced performance still was attractive considering the purchase cost, or some tweaking was done..
Note that this is a spin-off / copy of AN 26, and the Russians went on to power up the airframe with two 3812 KW engines, a big step up from the 2100 KW - and called it AN 32, with almost a 55% power increment.
The MA 60 is listed with 2 X 2052 KW engines, as public information. Agreed that the MA 60 is powered by PW engines, and maybe more efficient than the Progress of the Russian design, but there is some big gap in the power.
If you know anybody in the operator in ID, then you may be able to get a frank opinion, on the hot-high performance. I have no clue what transpired subsequently, whether there was a offset package or the reduced performance still was attractive considering the purchase cost, or some tweaking was done..
Note that this is a spin-off / copy of AN 26, and the Russians went on to power up the airframe with two 3812 KW engines, a big step up from the 2100 KW - and called it AN 32, with almost a 55% power increment.
The MA 60 is listed with 2 X 2052 KW engines, as public information. Agreed that the MA 60 is powered by PW engines, and maybe more efficient than the Progress of the Russian design, but there is some big gap in the power.
Last edited by ecureilx; 19th Jan 2009 at 03:12.
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: RPLL TMA
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And There was an airshow where an An-32 did a single-engine touch-and-go. Of course, granted only the crew was onboard, but that demonstrates confidence in the aircraft's power-to-weight ratio. I wonder if those same pilots would've done the same on an An-26...
The numbers on the MA60 do look good and seem to compare favorably to Western types. The passenger loads out of Caticlan's Rwy 06 are nominally comparable to the ATR72. But it seems the guys I know who fly the type say departing out of 06 is an act of faith on their part. And that's with both engines turning.
So yes, the numbers look good but is there a disconnect between what the book says and what pilots (and passengers) flying the type are actually seeing? Are those numbers verifiable by certifying authorities other than the Chinese CAA?
The numbers on the MA60 do look good and seem to compare favorably to Western types. The passenger loads out of Caticlan's Rwy 06 are nominally comparable to the ATR72. But it seems the guys I know who fly the type say departing out of 06 is an act of faith on their part. And that's with both engines turning.
So yes, the numbers look good but is there a disconnect between what the book says and what pilots (and passengers) flying the type are actually seeing? Are those numbers verifiable by certifying authorities other than the Chinese CAA?
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: 1°21'10.20"N - 103°56'36.21"E
Posts: 294
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
> So yes, the numbers look good but is there a disconnect between what the book says and what pilots (and passengers) flying the type are actually seeing? Are those numbers verifiable by certifying authorities other than the Chinese CAA? <
Not picking on MA 60 - my contention is that it is a good plane, of an old generation ..
And just that it is not a good airframe for a hot climate like this part of the world.
As for the certification .. read a take on the type, from Nepal.
"The government is negotiating with the Chinese aircraft manufacturer, Xi'an Aircraft Industry Group Co, for a buy-two-get-one-free deal to supply two twin engine turboprops for Royal Nepal Airlines. The Royal Nepali Army will get one of the planes for free.
The aircraft is a 56-seater derivative of the original Soviet Antonov An-24 and has upgraded Pratt & Whitney engines and Rockwell avionics. At $11 million apiece it has been exported to Zimbabwe, Fiji, Eritrea and Congo. Although not very popular among pilots, airlines find the aircraft cheap and useful for rough airfields.
Sources at Royal Nepal Airlines aren't too happy with the new aircraft and say they would have preferred more modern turboprops like ATR-72s or SAAB 340 which have a proven record of service on domestic routes like Pokhara, Biratnagar, Bhairawa and Nepalganj. "It's the government deciding, and it looks like they can't resist getting one free plane for the army," one airline official told us. The MA60 doesn't yet have UK or US FAA certification and has been decommissioned from service by China's own Wuhan Airlines and China Eastern Airlines.
MA-60 buy two get one free - Nepali Times
Not picking on MA 60 - my contention is that it is a good plane, of an old generation ..
And just that it is not a good airframe for a hot climate like this part of the world.
As for the certification .. read a take on the type, from Nepal.
"The government is negotiating with the Chinese aircraft manufacturer, Xi'an Aircraft Industry Group Co, for a buy-two-get-one-free deal to supply two twin engine turboprops for Royal Nepal Airlines. The Royal Nepali Army will get one of the planes for free.
The aircraft is a 56-seater derivative of the original Soviet Antonov An-24 and has upgraded Pratt & Whitney engines and Rockwell avionics. At $11 million apiece it has been exported to Zimbabwe, Fiji, Eritrea and Congo. Although not very popular among pilots, airlines find the aircraft cheap and useful for rough airfields.
Sources at Royal Nepal Airlines aren't too happy with the new aircraft and say they would have preferred more modern turboprops like ATR-72s or SAAB 340 which have a proven record of service on domestic routes like Pokhara, Biratnagar, Bhairawa and Nepalganj. "It's the government deciding, and it looks like they can't resist getting one free plane for the army," one airline official told us. The MA60 doesn't yet have UK or US FAA certification and has been decommissioned from service by China's own Wuhan Airlines and China Eastern Airlines.
MA-60 buy two get one free - Nepali Times
Retired Tiger pilot
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Club Morocco. Subic Bay. Philippines
Posts: 460
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Zest!
Maybe someone should ask what family tie does the owner of Zest have with mainland China. May have abearing on how the aircraft came to be in RP!
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
At $11 million apiece it has been exported to Zimbabwe, Fiji, Eritrea and Congo. Although not very popular among pilots, airlines find the aircraft cheap and useful for rough airfields.
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: somewhere in Asia
Posts: 162
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
propeller and aerodynamics
Quote:
The MA-60 had substantial trouble gaining altitude, most of which was acheived by retracting the landing gear. (possibly flaps retraction too)
it appears from this statement that the MA60 is really underpowered.
Is it?
Whilst not defending the aircraft but comparing it to similar aircraft capacity and weights, we find that the MA60 provides 1hp for each 3.9ks at MTOW. The F50 gives 1hp for each 4.1ks and the D8-300 1hp for each 3.9ks. And we all know that quite often at mtow, you do not actually leap away like a startled gazelle until gear and flaps are up.
The MA-60 had substantial trouble gaining altitude, most of which was acheived by retracting the landing gear. (possibly flaps retraction too)
it appears from this statement that the MA60 is really underpowered.
Is it?
Whilst not defending the aircraft but comparing it to similar aircraft capacity and weights, we find that the MA60 provides 1hp for each 3.9ks at MTOW. The F50 gives 1hp for each 4.1ks and the D8-300 1hp for each 3.9ks. And we all know that quite often at mtow, you do not actually leap away like a startled gazelle until gear and flaps are up.
with respect to performance, the ma60's empty weight is more than 1,000kg heavier than the ATR72-500 and has a lower MTO by 200kg.
and the penalties for t/o and ldg must be very heavy. just wondering if it makes economical and operational sense to put this type of a/c onto a route like caticlan.
the owner seems to have tons of money to burn to make this route effective even at a cost of US$ 11m a piece i can't see the economy behind this route.
are the rates that high? when i was there they we real cheap (something like 30 US$++ one way and return was 50++.
guess this purchase was just a political toy cause i read that Yao is an Ambassador for tourism of the philippines to china. this could explain more why he bought these "old fashioned" aircraft.
Retired Tiger pilot
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Club Morocco. Subic Bay. Philippines
Posts: 460
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MA 60
Hi I have flown a few thousand of hours in F27 and Dash7 aircraft in PNG and May last year was approached to look at the possible entry of MA60's to that airspace.
I sent numerous emails faxs etc to the manufacturer seeking single engine drift down graphs as well as take-off/landing performance from 5500'agl airports, isa + 15-18 conditions. To date, I still wait for thae information sought. Yes. I believe that at 'high altitude' airports under isa +15+, performance could be lacking.
At sea level Caticlan with only around 20 pax, the aircraft should have been less than 50% loaded and I wonder why it did not perform better than it did even taking into the account it is of geriatric design, if you like.
Reading the posts here and under Asian Spirit, I tend to suspect that the aircraft itself may not be at fault, may not have been underpowered for the load carried or the conditions experienced on that day at sealevel, but suspect that the training of and the handling skills of the crew may be more suspect and lacking than the aircraft.
Just a thought and I look forwrd to reading the accident report.
Happy safe flying.
I sent numerous emails faxs etc to the manufacturer seeking single engine drift down graphs as well as take-off/landing performance from 5500'agl airports, isa + 15-18 conditions. To date, I still wait for thae information sought. Yes. I believe that at 'high altitude' airports under isa +15+, performance could be lacking.
At sea level Caticlan with only around 20 pax, the aircraft should have been less than 50% loaded and I wonder why it did not perform better than it did even taking into the account it is of geriatric design, if you like.
Reading the posts here and under Asian Spirit, I tend to suspect that the aircraft itself may not be at fault, may not have been underpowered for the load carried or the conditions experienced on that day at sealevel, but suspect that the training of and the handling skills of the crew may be more suspect and lacking than the aircraft.
Just a thought and I look forwrd to reading the accident report.
Happy safe flying.
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: China
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Buskoto, the "MA-60" you said were operated by Wuhan Airlines and China Eastern were not MA-60. They were very old Yun-7 which is a copy of the an-26. You can see them as you taxi in Nanjing next to some Bae146 also in China Eastern colours. They are waisting away and rotting. You can tell they are yun-7 not MA-60 because they have winglets. The Yun-7 is still used at CAFUC for high performance training. As prurple head said earlier in the post OKAY Airways was the first (and only so far) to operate the MA-60 in China. They only have one aircraft flying now. Well it will be flying again soon when the managers of OKAY stop fighting and flights start again in Feb. When the company first got the MA-60 they were not allowed to fly becasue the CAAC would not give it a certificate and i beleive the Chinese Military got involved then, they got a certificate.