SIA not renewing 70% Expat Contracts
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Contrary to popular belief I do sympathize with all the guys losing their jobs. I too had to move once and it was not a pleasant experience, but to all you guys who have not moved I know its unfamiliar territory but don't worry you will make it through.
To all of you who have only heard unpleasant things of QR its not that bad, trust me. There is no perfect employer and there is no perfect job but flying an AC is pretty close and the guys in QR will make you feel welcome.
Cheers!
To all of you who have only heard unpleasant things of QR its not that bad, trust me. There is no perfect employer and there is no perfect job but flying an AC is pretty close and the guys in QR will make you feel welcome.
Cheers!
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Looks like you boyz are working yourselves up into one helluva lather. SIA must be laughing all across their two faces.
Has anyone ever asked a singaporean what he thinks of expat contracts? I can assure you they are green with envy, and would stab you all in the back given a meeting in a dark room.
SIAs policy was to reduce the expat numbers to zero, due local recruitment.Still is, they say. How many of you will take local contracts like other expats from australia/NZ/UK? Ummm me thinks only now cos you looking at the sack. You were given the choice when you applied to take local terms with better job security. But as usual, greed got the better of you, as it does most the time.
So dont now go on your knees to SIA, they dont care, never have. You are there to keep the insurance premiums down, well some of you that is
Has anyone ever asked a singaporean what he thinks of expat contracts? I can assure you they are green with envy, and would stab you all in the back given a meeting in a dark room.
SIAs policy was to reduce the expat numbers to zero, due local recruitment.Still is, they say. How many of you will take local contracts like other expats from australia/NZ/UK? Ummm me thinks only now cos you looking at the sack. You were given the choice when you applied to take local terms with better job security. But as usual, greed got the better of you, as it does most the time.
So dont now go on your knees to SIA, they dont care, never have. You are there to keep the insurance premiums down, well some of you that is
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First of all I'd like to say to CDRW that I did not smoke anything. K?
Look expat guys, you DO have my sympathy. I know how it's like to loose that super-safe job. My airline got bust... I would be flying the 340-600 by now, but anyway... I know you don't care.
All I want to say is that you went for a golden contract with high risk, you took it (the contract, AND THE RISK). So now live with it.
In a few years time SIA will again hire Expat Commanders, wanna bet? Will you again be signing that contract? Will I? Will somebody else?
I can understand SQ wanting to go more local, it's Singapore Airlines after all, not Expat Airlines. Now, do they need your expertise? I don't know, I'm not there... I can't tell. All I know is that nowadays Airlines are ruled by beancounters (so is mine), and they do not care about expertise, gentlemen's agreements, code of honor, ore anything like that. We, the pilots, are just silly payroll numbers which they would like to get rid of if they could... But they can't, and they never will.
I'm not in SQ, but in my airline I AM the local, and believe me, I'd like to get rid of those overpaid, below-average-standard, bad-attitude, arrogantly-behaving, no-local-language-speaking pilots. I'm not saying that you guys are any of these, but please understand SQ's "locals first" policy.
No National Legacy Carrier in Europe hires Expat Captains. And I'm sure in your home countries the National Carriers do not as well.
So why should Singapore Airlines do so? Think about that.
Now, dear ang mo friends, bash my post. Lah.
Look expat guys, you DO have my sympathy. I know how it's like to loose that super-safe job. My airline got bust... I would be flying the 340-600 by now, but anyway... I know you don't care.
All I want to say is that you went for a golden contract with high risk, you took it (the contract, AND THE RISK). So now live with it.
In a few years time SIA will again hire Expat Commanders, wanna bet? Will you again be signing that contract? Will I? Will somebody else?
I can understand SQ wanting to go more local, it's Singapore Airlines after all, not Expat Airlines. Now, do they need your expertise? I don't know, I'm not there... I can't tell. All I know is that nowadays Airlines are ruled by beancounters (so is mine), and they do not care about expertise, gentlemen's agreements, code of honor, ore anything like that. We, the pilots, are just silly payroll numbers which they would like to get rid of if they could... But they can't, and they never will.
I'm not in SQ, but in my airline I AM the local, and believe me, I'd like to get rid of those overpaid, below-average-standard, bad-attitude, arrogantly-behaving, no-local-language-speaking pilots. I'm not saying that you guys are any of these, but please understand SQ's "locals first" policy.
No National Legacy Carrier in Europe hires Expat Captains. And I'm sure in your home countries the National Carriers do not as well.
So why should Singapore Airlines do so? Think about that.
Now, dear ang mo friends, bash my post. Lah.
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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You are there to keep the insurance premiums down....
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The expat vs local issue is touchy and highly prone to a narrowminded view of other cultures.
I'm an expat in an Asian carrier. I have flown with highly talented expats, but also some that had a tough time passing sim checks and subsequently failed their command assessment.
Likewise, I have flown with some local pilots who just didn't have the aptitude for managing the ever changing dynamics of an approach, and some who were real naturals who had no problems whatsoever passing a command check.
Interestingly, of the two most natural pilots I have flown with, one was a 55 year old expat, and the other a 25 year old local.
Judge people on a personal level. It makes life more interesting, and the job more fun.
Sorry, back to the thread.
I'm an expat in an Asian carrier. I have flown with highly talented expats, but also some that had a tough time passing sim checks and subsequently failed their command assessment.
Likewise, I have flown with some local pilots who just didn't have the aptitude for managing the ever changing dynamics of an approach, and some who were real naturals who had no problems whatsoever passing a command check.
Interestingly, of the two most natural pilots I have flown with, one was a 55 year old expat, and the other a 25 year old local.
Judge people on a personal level. It makes life more interesting, and the job more fun.
Sorry, back to the thread.
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Majulah,
EVERY carrier I have worked with( And ALL were premium national carriers amongst the top four in the world today ),always HAVE and always WILL be hiring expats for basic survival and day to day operations.That is the norm and always will be. Basic numbers will dictate the existence of expats around the world AND in SIA too.If you are a pilot you are either a local or an expat.Anywhere in the world.No other kind la.Please remember I'm an expat in singapore but in my home country,I was doing the hiring OF the expats!
So you would be incorrect in suggesting that other National Carriers don't hire expats.You couldn't be more wrong.They SURVIVE on expats!
Thanks...
EVERY carrier I have worked with( And ALL were premium national carriers amongst the top four in the world today ),always HAVE and always WILL be hiring expats for basic survival and day to day operations.That is the norm and always will be. Basic numbers will dictate the existence of expats around the world AND in SIA too.If you are a pilot you are either a local or an expat.Anywhere in the world.No other kind la.Please remember I'm an expat in singapore but in my home country,I was doing the hiring OF the expats!
So you would be incorrect in suggesting that other National Carriers don't hire expats.You couldn't be more wrong.They SURVIVE on expats!
Thanks...
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So you would be incorrect in suggesting that other National Carriers don't hire expats.You couldn't be more wrong.They SURVIVE on expats!
Thanks...
Thanks...
Lufthansa, Air France - KLM, British Airways, Iberia, Swiss, etc. That's all Airlines which offer lifelong careers in their home countries.
None of them have Expat Captains on special Expat Contracts.
You're talking about stuff like Emirates, Qatar, SIA, Gulf Air, Etihad etc.
It's not the same.
In my Airline we do have some Contractor Copilots in the Regional segment, and boy do we locals like the fact that they earn more then Copis on the mainline... If there are going to be retrenchments in our Airline, they will go first. Anything else would be just gross.
Just my 2 Cents.
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I guess that makes sense.Offering lifelong careers to an expat WOULD make sense for the expat,but it wouldn't make any economic sense to the company.Unless of course the expat chooses to become a local and accept revised terms.
Again,I feel that this CHOICE given to an expat by SIA,to join up on expat terms and later BE ABLE to move onto local terms is by itself a huge privilege extended by SIA to the expat,which too many companies won't even consider! All in all,an extremely pilot oriented and pilot friendly airline which I seriously hope to hang my hat in(when i'm 60+ that is).And if it wasn't for the present state of the universe,this is something i would highly recommend to all of you on this forum.Retire with SIA......IF they'll have you for that long that is.
I'm sorry if my other colleagues on this forum feel shafted and won't agree with what i've just said.But then to each his own I say....
Now off to that beer i've left waiting....
Again,I feel that this CHOICE given to an expat by SIA,to join up on expat terms and later BE ABLE to move onto local terms is by itself a huge privilege extended by SIA to the expat,which too many companies won't even consider! All in all,an extremely pilot oriented and pilot friendly airline which I seriously hope to hang my hat in(when i'm 60+ that is).And if it wasn't for the present state of the universe,this is something i would highly recommend to all of you on this forum.Retire with SIA......IF they'll have you for that long that is.
I'm sorry if my other colleagues on this forum feel shafted and won't agree with what i've just said.But then to each his own I say....
Now off to that beer i've left waiting....
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Lufthansa, Air France - KLM, British Airways, Iberia, Swiss, etc. That's all Airlines which offer lifelong careers in their home countries.
None of them have Expat Captains on special Expat Contracts.
You're talking about stuff like Emirates, Qatar, SIA, Gulf Air, Etihad etc.
None of them have Expat Captains on special Expat Contracts.
You're talking about stuff like Emirates, Qatar, SIA, Gulf Air, Etihad etc.
As for salaries and conditions......if they are not attractive enough people won't come and the airlines expansion plans limited. Don't blame the expat for for taking advantage of market conditions......
As previously mentioned SIA, imho, has generally been a good employer and I for one would be sorry to see the current situation being used as a platform to incite local/expat relationships......
Sorry to drone on but the fridge is out of beer and the time change is keeping me up.......
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Silverisgood,
Your attempt to incite further row between locals and expats will not even come close to any success, simply because none has similar mentality like yours.
Back to the thread, it's a pity that this year SIA has to let go so many expats. Inside sources revealed that flight ops indeed had attempted to hold back the decision to "cut loose" expats to contain cost. However, those of you who're in the company long enough, do know that the real boss is not G Y himself, it's HR.
It's really really such regret that the bean-counters are totally convinced that for 2009 and 2010, we have to shed couple of hundreds of Skippers to keep the book looking "presentable" to the shareholders.
And despite this unpopular move by the much despised HR department, when it's time to rehiring, they will still have queue long enough to stretch from STC to Shenton Way. (Again, you gotta be long enough in the company to know that SIA is one of the best Expats airlines for most.)
For now, when they are totally done with the expats, even locals should start thinking hard of what may come next. The way things go, major steps can be expected after July this year.
Your attempt to incite further row between locals and expats will not even come close to any success, simply because none has similar mentality like yours.
Back to the thread, it's a pity that this year SIA has to let go so many expats. Inside sources revealed that flight ops indeed had attempted to hold back the decision to "cut loose" expats to contain cost. However, those of you who're in the company long enough, do know that the real boss is not G Y himself, it's HR.
It's really really such regret that the bean-counters are totally convinced that for 2009 and 2010, we have to shed couple of hundreds of Skippers to keep the book looking "presentable" to the shareholders.
And despite this unpopular move by the much despised HR department, when it's time to rehiring, they will still have queue long enough to stretch from STC to Shenton Way. (Again, you gotta be long enough in the company to know that SIA is one of the best Expats airlines for most.)
For now, when they are totally done with the expats, even locals should start thinking hard of what may come next. The way things go, major steps can be expected after July this year.
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Very well stated cpt777 and a wise, well informed post from you.
silverisgood does not deserve attention and certainly does not represent the local pilot's attitude to what is happening in SIA.
It hasnrt been said here yet but there were other factors affecting the closing down of the Perth and Brisbane bases.
The Australian Govt shuvved up a fee for these pilots from AUS$1000/month/pilot to 3000 recently. Something to do with Aust labour law.
Also not mentioned is that these pilots received a fair severence package from SIA and are being retained on the companies books for when this financial downturn reverses. I have no doubt they will be invited back to SIA as soon as the world economy comes back from its present freefall.
silverisgood does not deserve attention and certainly does not represent the local pilot's attitude to what is happening in SIA.
It hasnrt been said here yet but there were other factors affecting the closing down of the Perth and Brisbane bases.
The Australian Govt shuvved up a fee for these pilots from AUS$1000/month/pilot to 3000 recently. Something to do with Aust labour law.
Also not mentioned is that these pilots received a fair severence package from SIA and are being retained on the companies books for when this financial downturn reverses. I have no doubt they will be invited back to SIA as soon as the world economy comes back from its present freefall.
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It is no surprise to me that "silverisgood" had his post removed by the moderators. His contribution was childish beyond obnoxious. BUT he did set a an unbeatable record that not even Cargo Jock or Cargo Boy have been equal to. He has posted only once on Pprune and that post was censored. LOL
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Is it true that the managment's now asking the pilots to take voluntary no pay leave? And if things dont improve soon,this may be followed by compulsory no pay leave??!!
Wonder what comes next.....times ARE quite bad!!
Wonder what comes next.....times ARE quite bad!!
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13 a/c supposedly heading for the park (not counting 4 due to go anyway around this time),but 11 more (380/330) due to arrive this year; so net loss 2 airframes? Wonder what's the latest plan for crewing.....
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By what I heard the total number of airframes(380/330)coming in this fiscal year will total 14.But I guess the discrepancy's cause I'm talking fiscal and you probably are talking calander.One 380 & two 330's expected in first Q of 2010.
Wonder if it would be more prudent to have the initial deliveries deferred until the first or second Q of 2010.That may give the airline a better perspective by then(armed with better hindsight) and surely a better handle onto the scheme of things to come....
Just a thought...
Wonder if it would be more prudent to have the initial deliveries deferred until the first or second Q of 2010.That may give the airline a better perspective by then(armed with better hindsight) and surely a better handle onto the scheme of things to come....
Just a thought...
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Today SIA put out an "Early Departure Scheme" for expats. Guys can leave by June 30th and get pro-rated end of contract bonus payment plus any company bonus for this year, and, listen to this...get relieved of their training bond!!
Wow, I never thought I'd see the day. Having just said that, I think something similar happened about 1992 or 3 when SIA told all the expat F/O's that there wouldn't be any expat F/O's anymore. Similar terms were offered then and approximately 90+ resigned almost on the spot.
Whoa, somebody just ran past me to resign just now..and another...and..hey, wait for me!!
Wow, I never thought I'd see the day. Having just said that, I think something similar happened about 1992 or 3 when SIA told all the expat F/O's that there wouldn't be any expat F/O's anymore. Similar terms were offered then and approximately 90+ resigned almost on the spot.
Whoa, somebody just ran past me to resign just now..and another...and..hey, wait for me!!
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Looks like the ride is gonna get lot more turbulent than expected. Coupled with the doom's day mentality of HR, I think the idea of staying above water (by having smaller amount of nett profit) is NOT good enough for the company. Every effort has been directed to maintain the company share value, in the potential rebound when the investors will eventually be looking for places to park their greens.
Let's hope that expats are ready for this, and Mach Number, you're absolutely right, couple of my mates have also just started their resignation processes. We are in the group of slightly more fortunate than some, that we loners are not in need of paying big mortgage or bills and will scrap through the whole crisis somehow. In view of that, we are pretty much happy to pick up other options of having more time to our hobbies than sticking around and be of burden to the company. (Well for the aussie based guys obviously we ain't got a choice anyway.)
P.S : Chambudzi, thanks for the kind words, life was a bit busier past couple of weeks for me to even get on the net.
Let's hope that expats are ready for this, and Mach Number, you're absolutely right, couple of my mates have also just started their resignation processes. We are in the group of slightly more fortunate than some, that we loners are not in need of paying big mortgage or bills and will scrap through the whole crisis somehow. In view of that, we are pretty much happy to pick up other options of having more time to our hobbies than sticking around and be of burden to the company. (Well for the aussie based guys obviously we ain't got a choice anyway.)
P.S : Chambudzi, thanks for the kind words, life was a bit busier past couple of weeks for me to even get on the net.