Kingfisher sinking like the Titanic
Join Date: Sep 1999
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Saperaa - your point is?
It seems the hotels gave free accomodation, the hotels gave free internet access, the hotels gave three meals a day, the hotels gave free laundry!
This is easy if you don't pay the hotel bill. Along with most other bills.
And your comment that we ex-pats 'still got paid' is hardly worth commenting on. We are not low houred first timers trying to get a foothold on the ladder. Personally I left an extremely well paid position, - Yes even better than KF! - to experience flying in a different part of the world, and give my experience to KFA when they needed it. I did not do it just for the money, and like everyone else took the risk. I am a big boy, I can handle it! But when I see how others, less fortunate than myself, have been so adversly affected by management recklessness (or stupidity, or both!) and then cut people adrift with out so much as a 'sorry, but thanks anyway'!
And those guys who were employed for a year or more with not so much as turning a wheel, no currency, nothing, and then to be told, by email, you're terminated. How are these guys expected to get a job elswhere. The decent thing would have been a line sector or a PPC/IR renewal. I think KFA owed them that!
And you local guys, I assume you are local, also got shafted!
And you still think KFA are great? You must be easily pleased!
But never mind, as long as VJ keeps putting more money into Farce India! Sorry, typo error, of course I really meant Force India! - that's all right then!
It seems the hotels gave free accomodation, the hotels gave free internet access, the hotels gave three meals a day, the hotels gave free laundry!
This is easy if you don't pay the hotel bill. Along with most other bills.
And your comment that we ex-pats 'still got paid' is hardly worth commenting on. We are not low houred first timers trying to get a foothold on the ladder. Personally I left an extremely well paid position, - Yes even better than KF! - to experience flying in a different part of the world, and give my experience to KFA when they needed it. I did not do it just for the money, and like everyone else took the risk. I am a big boy, I can handle it! But when I see how others, less fortunate than myself, have been so adversly affected by management recklessness (or stupidity, or both!) and then cut people adrift with out so much as a 'sorry, but thanks anyway'!
And those guys who were employed for a year or more with not so much as turning a wheel, no currency, nothing, and then to be told, by email, you're terminated. How are these guys expected to get a job elswhere. The decent thing would have been a line sector or a PPC/IR renewal. I think KFA owed them that!
And you local guys, I assume you are local, also got shafted!
And you still think KFA are great? You must be easily pleased!
But never mind, as long as VJ keeps putting more money into Farce India! Sorry, typo error, of course I really meant Force India! - that's all right then!
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Indian Oil Company just invoked a 50 crore bank guarantee on Kingfisher Airlines. It's the first time they have done that apparently.
Also in DEL on the ramp KFA has two A-320's parked with no engines mounted. No good for PR.
Also in DEL on the ramp KFA has two A-320's parked with no engines mounted. No good for PR.
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Sapeera , I think your post is a very uninformed post.To imply that a professional commercial pilot would be lured by what I would call rather cheap incentives is quite demeaning of a profession many of us take great pride in.You must remember that when one runs an organisation one must always have the right people at the right places and that is what ensures the success of the organisation.Unfortunately that is what KF lacked.He lost that opportunity when he lost Alex Wilcox.It is quite evident by now that VJM does not have much of a clue about airline management and at this point in time he has taken the entire UB Group to the edge of a cliff.It is quite possible that the group will plunge and this has nothing to do with the world economic situation.The only impact the economic situation had on VJM was that now , the financial institutions are more prudent and would be think twice before bankrolling one of his mindless ventures.I have been a very vocal critic of both him and Gopinath on this forum for this reason.Both they and their supporters have argued that they have created jobs and wealth but right now there are many who stand the chance of losing everything all together.You see, it is great to create jobs but it would be better if you can create jobs that last for if you do not you only add to the woes of the already bad financial system.
All over the world the standard practise among airline companies is that if they lack qualified flight crew , they would recruit qualified and trained flight crew from across the world and pay a premium for it.For there has to be something to attract them to you.Once they have handed over their experience to the local crew they would move on and the locals would be given the opportunities.Unfortunately in India , the expats are made out to be criminals and much of their experience and good practises neglected.In the name of national pride , which I consider false pride , they have been asked to leave and I think eventually the travelling public would have to pay a price for this.Apart from the last KF runway incident , there have been 2 other incidents that have occured in India in the last few weeks in a leading airline that could have been disastrous.All flown by local crew who were relatively inexperienced.By saying this I'm not implying any racial but saying that qualification and experience matters a lot.And for the record , many of the Indian crew are simply second to none.At this point in time I should also ask , how should one consider the many Indian pilots that work for some of the leading airlines around the world ?
Now back to the point , KF needs to get their act together.There is no point blaming anyone for that.If they don't there won't be a KF very soon.And for the flights to the US...a pipe dream my friend,pipe dream.
All over the world the standard practise among airline companies is that if they lack qualified flight crew , they would recruit qualified and trained flight crew from across the world and pay a premium for it.For there has to be something to attract them to you.Once they have handed over their experience to the local crew they would move on and the locals would be given the opportunities.Unfortunately in India , the expats are made out to be criminals and much of their experience and good practises neglected.In the name of national pride , which I consider false pride , they have been asked to leave and I think eventually the travelling public would have to pay a price for this.Apart from the last KF runway incident , there have been 2 other incidents that have occured in India in the last few weeks in a leading airline that could have been disastrous.All flown by local crew who were relatively inexperienced.By saying this I'm not implying any racial but saying that qualification and experience matters a lot.And for the record , many of the Indian crew are simply second to none.At this point in time I should also ask , how should one consider the many Indian pilots that work for some of the leading airlines around the world ?
Now back to the point , KF needs to get their act together.There is no point blaming anyone for that.If they don't there won't be a KF very soon.And for the flights to the US...a pipe dream my friend,pipe dream.
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Very aptly said skydancer
VJM got poor advisors in managerial posts who were related to other people.
You got an Engineer as a Exec VP, No flaw in itself but anti Pilots.
You got inflight under Guest services and not Operations,
All operations are compared to Jet.
Pilots in different lobbies viz. expat, local, Ex Indian Airlines, Ex Air India, Ex Military etc. etc. and hence no unified voice or culture. A normal thing for startups but pilots need to evolve as an organisation grows and not stick to their previous employers ethos.
Now creditors are encashing guarantees..
Hope that the company stays around..
VJM got poor advisors in managerial posts who were related to other people.
You got an Engineer as a Exec VP, No flaw in itself but anti Pilots.
You got inflight under Guest services and not Operations,
All operations are compared to Jet.
Pilots in different lobbies viz. expat, local, Ex Indian Airlines, Ex Air India, Ex Military etc. etc. and hence no unified voice or culture. A normal thing for startups but pilots need to evolve as an organisation grows and not stick to their previous employers ethos.
Now creditors are encashing guarantees..
Hope that the company stays around..
Join Date: Nov 2008
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not total BS
Yanafrica
Not really B.S.
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/News-By-Industry/Jobs/Slowdown-forces-companies-to-review-expat-salaries/articleshow/4482945.cms
Hope VJM knows how to market alcohol.
It should be 12 yrs old and marked on the bottle with 12 year old tag to get price as desired and printed.
Same is with the airline business.
Now in 3-4 year old airline you cannot expect roster like 12 year old airline.
It takes time to mature.
Same is with the management of Kingfisher; most of them are new to business like VJM.
At this 3-4 years airline I cannot find much fault especially when every day a new route/flight is planned and next day it’s cancelled.
Its hard time for all, not only for pilots but the management as well.
Forget the roster now, first priority is salary.
We will see operational part later.
Not really B.S.
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/News-By-Industry/Jobs/Slowdown-forces-companies-to-review-expat-salaries/articleshow/4482945.cms
Hope VJM knows how to market alcohol.
It should be 12 yrs old and marked on the bottle with 12 year old tag to get price as desired and printed.
Same is with the airline business.
Now in 3-4 year old airline you cannot expect roster like 12 year old airline.
It takes time to mature.
Same is with the management of Kingfisher; most of them are new to business like VJM.
At this 3-4 years airline I cannot find much fault especially when every day a new route/flight is planned and next day it’s cancelled.
Its hard time for all, not only for pilots but the management as well.
Forget the roster now, first priority is salary.
We will see operational part later.
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It seems the hotels gave free accomodation, the hotels gave free internet access, the hotels gave three meals a day, the hotels gave free laundry!
with your experience behind you, i am sure you must have felt this is some thing not good.
only @ kingfisher.
so many wrongs @ KFA, ........
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Forget the roster now, first priority is salary.
We will see operational part later.
We will see operational part later.
thanks god i had the chance to fly with very nice, mature , and professional Indian FO.
happy landings
Join Date: Sep 2004
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salary!
to all concerned, salary credited a few hours ago...there's no point predicting the slow death of KF...we all gain if it survives..black or white..local or expat!
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sky dancer
your post is 100% correct
i never wanted to hurt anybody sentiments/feeling.
but i posted with a thought to save airline/jobs
and before we blame others we need to see our part.
pilots got incentives yes,it was not expected by them.
it was management who offered and we are surprised.
no airline does that.
kingfisher only...........................................
thats why the last post,
and i know its only kingfisher where pilots have nothing to contribute.
and operations has no say.
kingfisher gave was my word in last post.
your post is 100% correct
i never wanted to hurt anybody sentiments/feeling.
but i posted with a thought to save airline/jobs
and before we blame others we need to see our part.
pilots got incentives yes,it was not expected by them.
it was management who offered and we are surprised.
no airline does that.
kingfisher only...........................................
thats why the last post,
and i know its only kingfisher where pilots have nothing to contribute.
and operations has no say.
kingfisher gave was my word in last post.
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heard one of the fuel suppliers just yanked the Bank Guarantee on Kingfish... all this while VJM's watching IPL in south africa with a bevy of people he flew out on the 330 (???)
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Just for the record,R/w "incident" at BLR involved an Expat.
In Aviation as elswhere,we learn form those with more experience,and then pass on our own to the new kids in the block.
And in todays global village,this professional practice generally cuts across national/ airline/ military backgrounds.
Those of us who have been around a while,have seen hard times before,so have the resolve to "hang in there" whatever our nationality.
In Aviation as elswhere,we learn form those with more experience,and then pass on our own to the new kids in the block.
And in todays global village,this professional practice generally cuts across national/ airline/ military backgrounds.
Those of us who have been around a while,have seen hard times before,so have the resolve to "hang in there" whatever our nationality.
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abacus
good to knw you got job @ another airline.
i am sure with your experience and tenure @ kingfisher you can help to save the airline and the fellow pilots you left behind.
please help all.
Abacus
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: 100 east
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Saperaa - your point is?
It seems the hotels gave free accomodation, the hotels gave free internet access, the hotels gave three meals a day, the hotels gave free laundry!
This is easy if you don't pay the hotel bill. Along with most other bills.
And your comment that we ex-pats 'still got paid' is hardly worth commenting on. We are not low houred first timers trying to get a foothold on the ladder. Personally I left an extremely well paid position, - Yes even better than KF! - to experience flying in a different part of the world, and give my experience to KFA when they needed it. I did not do it just for the money, and like everyone else took the risk. I am a big boy, I can handle it! But when I see how others, less fortunate than myself, have been so adversly affected by management recklessness (or stupidity, or both!) and then cut people adrift with out so much as a 'sorry, but thanks anyway'!
And those guys who were employed for a year or more with not so much as turning a wheel, no currency, nothing, and then to be told, by email, you're terminated. How are these guys expected to get a job elswhere. The decent thing would have been a line sector or a PPC/IR renewal. I think KFA owed them that!
And you local guys, I assume you are local, also got shafted!
And you still think KFA are great? You must be easily pleased!
But never mind, as long as VJ keeps putting more money into Farce India! Sorry, typo error, of course I really meant Force India! - that's all right then!
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: 100 east
Posts: 18
Saperaa - your point is?
It seems the hotels gave free accomodation, the hotels gave free internet access, the hotels gave three meals a day, the hotels gave free laundry!
This is easy if you don't pay the hotel bill. Along with most other bills.
And your comment that we ex-pats 'still got paid' is hardly worth commenting on. We are not low houred first timers trying to get a foothold on the ladder. Personally I left an extremely well paid position, - Yes even better than KF! - to experience flying in a different part of the world, and give my experience to KFA when they needed it. I did not do it just for the money, and like everyone else took the risk. I am a big boy, I can handle it! But when I see how others, less fortunate than myself, have been so adversly affected by management recklessness (or stupidity, or both!) and then cut people adrift with out so much as a 'sorry, but thanks anyway'!
And those guys who were employed for a year or more with not so much as turning a wheel, no currency, nothing, and then to be told, by email, you're terminated. How are these guys expected to get a job elswhere. The decent thing would have been a line sector or a PPC/IR renewal. I think KFA owed them that!
And you local guys, I assume you are local, also got shafted!
And you still think KFA are great? You must be easily pleased!
But never mind, as long as VJ keeps putting more money into Farce India! Sorry, typo error, of course I really meant Force India! - that's all right then!
i am sure with your experience and tenure @ kingfisher you can help to save the airline and the fellow pilots you left behind.
please help all.
Join Date: Nov 2008
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funds r coming
salary!
to all concerned, salary credited a few hours ago...there's no point predicting the slow death of KF...we all gain if it survives..black or white..local or expat!
to all concerned, salary credited a few hours ago...there's no point predicting the slow death of KF...we all gain if it survives..black or white..local or expat!
pax loads up
world econ+
feel good n
in six months India aviation lookout is good good
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The money might come in trickles-SBI just gave him INR 500crores- but one suspects it will be like feeding an ocean.
Anybody attending VJMs 30crores party in Cannes next week
?
Anybody attending VJMs 30crores party in Cannes next week
?
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should not confuse personal wealth with company performance.\
UB had a turnover of Rs 14500 crores last year
UB had a turnover of Rs 14500 crores last year
leave aside personal wealth.