Kingfisher sinking like the Titanic
Kingfisher-ipl
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KF south africa
They're not doing too well on their F1 team either.Hear cash situtaion is real dire.Little wonder pilots are having to pay for their accomodation in some cities!
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the boss read mallaya says fly them...
and the company flies them..
and nobody has the b@lls to ask for payment
And yes... A330 pilots form bases other than BLR and BOM, have been asked to lookout for own accommodation from May 1 as a cost cutting measure.
and the company flies them..
and nobody has the b@lls to ask for payment
And yes... A330 pilots form bases other than BLR and BOM, have been asked to lookout for own accommodation from May 1 as a cost cutting measure.
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Casper63 -
What a load of BS!!
Nothing wrong for a company to ask its crew to use perfectly normal configurations for landing if it saves money....
Loads of companies are using these "cost saving measurements", easyJet being one of them. Last year 44.5 million passengers traveled with easyJet on close to 1000 departures per day, still no overruns (not caused by flaps/reverse thrust config anyway).... You can't use flap 3 for "all landings", nothing strange with that though, which pilot would use use flex t/o "for all departures"??! Use it when the operational requirements and conditions allow it, there is a lot of money to be saved.
orange
The Kingfisher airline has issued circular to use only Flaps 3 and Reverse Idle for all landings. These so called cost cutting measures would increase the risk and unfortunately the poor fare paying passengers are blissfully unaware. A tail touch or a runway overrun is highly possible in the near future especially in the coming monsoon season, which would more than wipe out all the savings the ops management is trying to accrue.
Nothing wrong for a company to ask its crew to use perfectly normal configurations for landing if it saves money....
Loads of companies are using these "cost saving measurements", easyJet being one of them. Last year 44.5 million passengers traveled with easyJet on close to 1000 departures per day, still no overruns (not caused by flaps/reverse thrust config anyway).... You can't use flap 3 for "all landings", nothing strange with that though, which pilot would use use flex t/o "for all departures"??! Use it when the operational requirements and conditions allow it, there is a lot of money to be saved.
orange
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Orange you are entitled to your opinion. But 99% airlines world over flying Airbus use full flaps and full reverse(Airbus SOP). If one could save loads of money by these monkey tricks, their use would have been a standard norm instead of an exception. By the way use of Flex is a standard norm used by all.
Cheers have a drink mate with all the money you saved for your airlines. But remember they will be the first ones to throw you out if you have a tail touch (eg Emirates).
Cheers have a drink mate with all the money you saved for your airlines. But remember they will be the first ones to throw you out if you have a tail touch (eg Emirates).
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Full flaps or flaps 3?
Last edited by lastdon; 16th Apr 2009 at 11:51.
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Thanks Don, the issue has been discussed earlier too and most were of the opinion that the pilots should be allowed to select the configuration they are comfortable with instead of being forced to use Flaps 3 for all landings. I am not comfortable when a pilot with 500 hrs TT is landing a 321 at max landing weight on a shortish runway with Flaps 3. As such your pitch angle is around 5 deg during stable approach, which gives very limited margin during flare for mistakes/inexperience.
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Is there any chance that kingfisher will reacquire the a345s in the future to start the US services or is that now a distant dream? I believe that they sold some of them to Arik Air and some to Hifly. Weren't they also planning to start non-stop services from delhi - vancouver as well?
maybe they should have bought the 777LR instead:
maybe they should have bought the 777LR instead:
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As far as the stop distance is concerned,config 3 needs on an average about 90 mtrs more then config FULL.
And as far as tail clearance,a heavier A/C will actually have a slightly lower nose att than a lighter one on approach.
So essentailly both the factors will not work in concert.
A minimum amount of experience is definitly required to get the optimum perfrmance out of any type of a/c.
However,once that comfort level is acheived,looking for excuses to fly "safely" at the expense of fuel economy/expeditous traffic flow is a sure indication that you are in aviation for the wrong reasons
And as far as tail clearance,a heavier A/C will actually have a slightly lower nose att than a lighter one on approach.
So essentailly both the factors will not work in concert.
A minimum amount of experience is definitly required to get the optimum perfrmance out of any type of a/c.
However,once that comfort level is acheived,looking for excuses to fly "safely" at the expense of fuel economy/expeditous traffic flow is a sure indication that you are in aviation for the wrong reasons
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looking for excuses to fly "safely" at the expense of fuel economy/expeditous traffic flow is a sure indication that you are in aviation for the wrong reasons
if they remove them and sell ,it will be big money as spares sold+ saving on basic operating weight by +500 kgm.
less BOW will also take care of +90 m of runway length for flap3 landing.
AIRBUSs should learn weight saving, if a/c can land on flap3 why install flap full
and increase BOW+ fuel consumption.
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Left seat view I know your are in aviation for the right reasons but your lnowledge appears to be a bit rusty. Inadequate grasp of subject and gung ho attitude is a killer combination. Wishng you many many happy landings without tail touch
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KFA has tough days ahead my friend by the looks of it. Its not getting money from banks and cash is is drying up.Does anybody have an idea what happened to its third A340- still parked in Toulouse??? Believe Arik took only two.Anybody flying on the A330 bound for SAfrica for IPL?
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UB seeks okay to raise loan ceiling- Market News-Stocks-Markets-The Economic Times
Here is the parent company coming in to protect the Kingfisher Airlines
Here is the parent company coming in to protect the Kingfisher Airlines
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I think it's about time the Indian government takes a stand on the issue.If they want the Indian aviation industry to develop, the way to do it is to create a favourable environment and then allow genuine players to get into the fray.Looking at the figures, the UB group should have closed down a long time ago.IF KF goes down the drain , the govt. has nothing to do with it,why should the tax payer pay the price for VJM's stupidity.But then I guess that's the way life goes , the father created a fortune for his future generations , and a dumb son goes and squanders it......I'm sure his dad wouldn't have wanted to be around to see this day.
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Anyone venturing into the world of civil aviation,good times or bad, is gambling.
It is like Richard Branson once said, the way to become a millionaire is to start out as a billionaire and then start an airline.
Alt3
It is like Richard Branson once said, the way to become a millionaire is to start out as a billionaire and then start an airline.
Alt3
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I think it's about time the Indian government takes a stand on the issue.If they want the Indian aviation industry to develop, the way to do it is to create a favourable environment and then allow genuine players to get into the fray.Looking at the figures, the UB group should have closed down a long time ago.IF KF goes down the drain , the govt. has nothing to do with it
In 2003 around time, government issued licences to various companies and made money.
Recently when airlines wanted to cut staff, government did not allow this for votes/credibility.
And also did not let any airline to close to maintain credibility in aviation sector which government tried to start.
Now after 5 years we are going for elections, I am sure there is nothing for aviation irrespective of any government coming at centre.
Media also gave big hype about Boom in Indian Aviation but nothing concrete seen.
Just talk and walk.
I don’t think airlines are at fault or VJM,
They have been able to create jobs but could not maintain bcz of domestic and global scenario.
Try to see whole situation with a broader view.
2000-2009 time periods.
It looks now the last five years were big time swindles only.
Just wish a next government can do some thing to save/promote healthy aviation.
And kingfisher + rest of all create more openings for every body.
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Titanic lasted 2 1/2 hours.
In October 2008 this thread opened with the seemingly gloating prediction of the imminent demise of an airline, comparing it to the RMS Titanic;
Last month they couldn't even pay there employees on time...where is all the Mallya money everyone keep talking about? Its all smoking mirrows. No rupees in bank by the 7TH....yeaaa..you will see those planes fly allright.
They fired a capt...then they try to re-hire the same Capt. back after a week......The numbers are coming in...People are leaving, including Indian Capt's....Sit back relax and enjoy the ride.
Close to six months later during a world wide recession and still they fly!!
Care to comment Kinfisher?
Last month they couldn't even pay there employees on time...where is all the Mallya money everyone keep talking about? Its all smoking mirrows. No rupees in bank by the 7TH....yeaaa..you will see those planes fly allright.
They fired a capt...then they try to re-hire the same Capt. back after a week......The numbers are coming in...People are leaving, including Indian Capt's....Sit back relax and enjoy the ride.
Close to six months later during a world wide recession and still they fly!!
Care to comment Kinfisher?
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Kingfisher pilots allege breach of contract, petition DGCA
19 Apr 2009, 1234 hrs IST, PTI
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MUMBAI: About a dozen pilots of Kingfisher Airlines have petitioned the Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA) to direct the airline to waive the mandatory six months notice period (for leaving the company) on their service contract.
The pilots said they are seeking the waiver as the airline has already breached their contracts by altering some service conditions including changes in the salary structure.
"We have petitioned the DGCA that Kingfisher should not be allowed to invoke civil aviation requirement (CAR) of 2005, which entails a 6-month prior notice for quitting, on the ground that our service contracts have been changed unilaterally," a petitioner said.
These pilots have put in their papers and are joining other carriers, but the airline is not relieving them, citing the 6-month notice clause, the petitioner said.
A senior DGCA official confirmed that the pilots have approached the regulator.
"Yes, I think, they have... the petition will be heard on Monday," the official said.
The pilots who have quit Mallya's airline include five from Delhi and two each from Mumbai, Bangalore and Hyderabad.
19 Apr 2009, 1234 hrs IST, PTI
Print Email Discuss Share Save CommentText:
MUMBAI: About a dozen pilots of Kingfisher Airlines have petitioned the Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA) to direct the airline to waive the mandatory six months notice period (for leaving the company) on their service contract.
The pilots said they are seeking the waiver as the airline has already breached their contracts by altering some service conditions including changes in the salary structure.
"We have petitioned the DGCA that Kingfisher should not be allowed to invoke civil aviation requirement (CAR) of 2005, which entails a 6-month prior notice for quitting, on the ground that our service contracts have been changed unilaterally," a petitioner said.
These pilots have put in their papers and are joining other carriers, but the airline is not relieving them, citing the 6-month notice clause, the petitioner said.
A senior DGCA official confirmed that the pilots have approached the regulator.
"Yes, I think, they have... the petition will be heard on Monday," the official said.
The pilots who have quit Mallya's airline include five from Delhi and two each from Mumbai, Bangalore and Hyderabad.