Philippine Air Lines A320 again in Runway excursion
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Excursions: Talking of Numbers?
PAL=4...buPac=1 (DC-9 in Bacolod during 180 taxi back) remember such narrow Rwy 04 which forbids 180 before the runway end. Nobody is good when SOP is not followed.
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Old school thinking
Your Post:
if the dogs do not bark or whimper, then they must be content with their condition or with the treatment they are receiving from their master.
My Reply:
What if the dogs have harness strapped on their mouth? what if proclaiming such statements lead to presumption that you're somebody sharp?.... oh no Parsifal, you dont really know PAL if you're not there. OR, if you are there, then you must be one of those who only agrees because you have low time , low experience , no enough bars to bark your way out in case subdued. - My statement doesnt mean that I agree with PAL culture.
- Oh no, im no old school. Thats why Im out and did not stay long enough to see my end with them. And yes, i talk about CRM and thats what it is.
if the dogs do not bark or whimper, then they must be content with their condition or with the treatment they are receiving from their master.
My Reply:
What if the dogs have harness strapped on their mouth? what if proclaiming such statements lead to presumption that you're somebody sharp?.... oh no Parsifal, you dont really know PAL if you're not there. OR, if you are there, then you must be one of those who only agrees because you have low time , low experience , no enough bars to bark your way out in case subdued. - My statement doesnt mean that I agree with PAL culture.
- Oh no, im no old school. Thats why Im out and did not stay long enough to see my end with them. And yes, i talk about CRM and thats what it is.
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Ian Del Castillo
I don't know you...but I wish I did.
You're worthy of my salute...
Admission of a mistake is the first step...
which is always the hardest...
Keep it up, brother!
You're worthy of my salute...
Admission of a mistake is the first step...
which is always the hardest...
Keep it up, brother!
Thread Starter
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Congratulations!
we did not skid off the runway.....
we were on landing roll runway 28 when tower advised us to make 180 and expedite vacating and taxi back to the ramp due aircraft orbiting on finals 28. so upon checking my speed (20kts and deccelerating) i decided to commence with the 180 turn since the rwy width was in accordance to the airbus standard of 30mtrs min. and 40 degrees before the completion of turn the nose wheel fell of the edge of the rwy.
investigation by the company and all concerned authorities is still on going.
poor judgement? (apparently)
experience? we learn
my fault? DEFINITELY IM THE FREAKIN CAPT!
and to cheer up the nay sayers ill even post the verdict
i take full responsibility for what happened.
so that all you may know
god speed and may you never have an incident lest you be the one to be the unlucky
we were on landing roll runway 28 when tower advised us to make 180 and expedite vacating and taxi back to the ramp due aircraft orbiting on finals 28. so upon checking my speed (20kts and deccelerating) i decided to commence with the 180 turn since the rwy width was in accordance to the airbus standard of 30mtrs min. and 40 degrees before the completion of turn the nose wheel fell of the edge of the rwy.
investigation by the company and all concerned authorities is still on going.
poor judgement? (apparently)
experience? we learn
my fault? DEFINITELY IM THE FREAKIN CAPT!
and to cheer up the nay sayers ill even post the verdict
i take full responsibility for what happened.
so that all you may know
god speed and may you never have an incident lest you be the one to be the unlucky
Great! Honesty helps!
Good luck in the investigation!
k, and it counts from what day?
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Sub-standard Airline
Censure, reprimand and suspension.... ah gotta love P.A.L !!!! Is there any kind of recurrency training? Or just a slap on the wrist for bending the plane? Any kind of CRM training that could prevents accidents from happening again or a new safety system to stem future problems? If the answer is NO... suspension will be as usefull as f...king a prostitute with syphilis. DR. PS is in the house and his prognosis is :The STD is in boys and girls and it aint going away anytime soon!
To all you sycophants that admire Ian for taking full responsiblity, that is only part of the problem at PAL. Ian fessed up, but what are the final outcomes of these runway incursions?
Real airlines have safety systems and CRM programs that are more than just a 1 day course at PLC or a tick in the box in your training file! Its an entire culture that promotes safety above everything. Passengers lives and the aircraft/property are more important that people's reputations and feelings. Being safe means that you will make a report even if you are friends with the captain or first officer or even if you will be persecuted for it when you get to Gate 1. Because reporting an incident even if it is trivial, allows others in similar situtations to learn from your mistakes. Ian's mistake is probably ONE of hundreds that haven't been reported. Unfortunately for Ian there is a bent airplane to expose the incident and unfortunately for safety at PAL many more will be hidden before someone dies. The promotion and encouragement of a Safety CULTURE is going to be hard for PAL due to traditions and culture. Safety will always be secondary.
PAL is truly a sub-standard airline. I KNOW THIS FOR FACT! No appologies here, until PAL changes!
To all you sycophants that admire Ian for taking full responsiblity, that is only part of the problem at PAL. Ian fessed up, but what are the final outcomes of these runway incursions?
Real airlines have safety systems and CRM programs that are more than just a 1 day course at PLC or a tick in the box in your training file! Its an entire culture that promotes safety above everything. Passengers lives and the aircraft/property are more important that people's reputations and feelings. Being safe means that you will make a report even if you are friends with the captain or first officer or even if you will be persecuted for it when you get to Gate 1. Because reporting an incident even if it is trivial, allows others in similar situtations to learn from your mistakes. Ian's mistake is probably ONE of hundreds that haven't been reported. Unfortunately for Ian there is a bent airplane to expose the incident and unfortunately for safety at PAL many more will be hidden before someone dies. The promotion and encouragement of a Safety CULTURE is going to be hard for PAL due to traditions and culture. Safety will always be secondary.
PAL is truly a sub-standard airline. I KNOW THIS FOR FACT! No appologies here, until PAL changes!
Last edited by planestupid; 26th Sep 2008 at 08:30.
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adios
the three months started sept 15th. after that sim then routequal. which i really dont mind. ganun talaga eh. plus i think it will do me a lot of good.
@ planestupid why dont you return and make things better in PAL since you seem to know how to run a tight ship. or have you already given up on PAL?
i see the point that you are trying to drive at and yes you do have tons of valid points. but why rant on a company that you are not a part of anymore? i sense a lot of bitterness but as a proffesional you just oughta be happy that you are "out" of this company that you abhore so much.
peace to all and safe flying.
this will be my last post since the case has already been decided
STORK ASAN KA?! USAP TAYO THE CASE MAY BE OVER BUT IT AINT OVER BETWEEN US. (KULOT?)
@ planestupid why dont you return and make things better in PAL since you seem to know how to run a tight ship. or have you already given up on PAL?
i see the point that you are trying to drive at and yes you do have tons of valid points. but why rant on a company that you are not a part of anymore? i sense a lot of bitterness but as a proffesional you just oughta be happy that you are "out" of this company that you abhore so much.
peace to all and safe flying.
this will be my last post since the case has already been decided
STORK ASAN KA?! USAP TAYO THE CASE MAY BE OVER BUT IT AINT OVER BETWEEN US. (KULOT?)
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"adios the three months started sept 15th. after that sim then route qual. which i really dont mind. ganun talaga eh. plus i think it will do me a lot of good." - Ian ------------------------------------------------------Ian shows the mark of a true professional. You've earned my respect, Captain.
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Captain Ian
Time will tell you'll be remembered not for the incident/accident you did but how you acted afterwards...
I for one already forgot what incident/accident you were in. What's that again?
F--k! The thread title is a giveaway!
Ah! Anyway. Whatever it is, you'll be remembered not because of that.
All the best man!
I for one already forgot what incident/accident you were in. What's that again?
F--k! The thread title is a giveaway!
Ah! Anyway. Whatever it is, you'll be remembered not because of that.
All the best man!
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After seing this Thread , i dont know if US Filipinos Pilots who are in other countries would really be proud of our race. Guys , We do not have to feast on other pilots misfortunes. And again , Saying something about someones dad is really low.
You guys call yourself Professional Pilots? Think Again!!
Capt. , takes so much courage to accept your mistakes and I salute you for that.
We all mistakes. " WHAT DOES NOT KILL YOU , MAKES YOU STRONGER AND BETTER"
Not like other pilots who have so much ego that coudnt accept that in a way or two , nagkamali din sila.
RE: Seniority thing.
For all pilots who think of themselves as "GOD" Shame on you.
This is not a Game we play up there. So listening to other peoples opinion woudnt always hurt. so , if you think of yourself as GOD.... WHATS THE PURPOSE OF THE RIGHT SEAT??? Might as well call Boeing or Airbus and suggest they just put 1 seat in the middle.
Reality check , there are 2 main seats on the FD and theres a reason for that.
Guys We are of the same blood , same race and same industry. We should be helping each other out not destroying each others reputation. so please , lets respect each other.
Peace out.
God Speed
DL FO. 737-800
You guys call yourself Professional Pilots? Think Again!!
Capt. , takes so much courage to accept your mistakes and I salute you for that.
We all mistakes. " WHAT DOES NOT KILL YOU , MAKES YOU STRONGER AND BETTER"
Not like other pilots who have so much ego that coudnt accept that in a way or two , nagkamali din sila.
RE: Seniority thing.
For all pilots who think of themselves as "GOD" Shame on you.
This is not a Game we play up there. So listening to other peoples opinion woudnt always hurt. so , if you think of yourself as GOD.... WHATS THE PURPOSE OF THE RIGHT SEAT??? Might as well call Boeing or Airbus and suggest they just put 1 seat in the middle.
Reality check , there are 2 main seats on the FD and theres a reason for that.
Guys We are of the same blood , same race and same industry. We should be helping each other out not destroying each others reputation. so please , lets respect each other.
Peace out.
God Speed
DL FO. 737-800
Last edited by 738FO; 14th Oct 2008 at 02:31.
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i hate reading this sort of incident/accident scoring mania. i suggest you as a pilot should learn from from these mishaps. I admit, once near incident happens to you..it will take time to recover from the belief how good a pilot you are.
We cannot blame these young pilots in that airline, instead of making them Limited First Officers, they make them second officer. Just to save the airline money? How many planes can they afford to lose now! or lives!
Wake up you pilots on that airline, esp you have now an SVP who can't fly but is good in burning cd's.
I only know of one ab-initio paying class who became good pilots, but they were guided thoroughly by their management parents. The rest? we call them in our dialect= mga latak....
We cannot blame these young pilots in that airline, instead of making them Limited First Officers, they make them second officer. Just to save the airline money? How many planes can they afford to lose now! or lives!
Wake up you pilots on that airline, esp you have now an SVP who can't fly but is good in burning cd's.
I only know of one ab-initio paying class who became good pilots, but they were guided thoroughly by their management parents. The rest? we call them in our dialect= mga latak....
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mga latak?
i normally would just let cheap shots aimed at avschool grads pass considering this is a network where anyone's emotion can just burst forth. but this one raises the bar, so to speak. while it is true that a chunk of avschool trainees comes from a lineage of pilot/s, it doesn't make them any better. the rest termed as 'latak' had to learn on their own, and if they do measure up to the standards, it is because of their sheer capacity and potential. after all, there's no such thing as a born flyer (or maybe some still suffer from the illusion that they are).
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got on a flight with them between cebu and manila on a 747 and the pilots almost ran out of runway in Manila... totally overshot the touchdown point and wasn't braking properly, and that was a damn long runway !
Otherwise having been around a lot of airports in the Philippines the runways are really short and narrow, and yet they still land A320's on those post stamps, nothing like landing on a 3300 meters runway.
So sure there's bad pilots everywhere but don't forget about all the good ones. I did work in the Phils and seen good pilots and aweful pilots (sorry but most of them weren't good pilots but yet there's a few really good guys).
Otherwise having been around a lot of airports in the Philippines the runways are really short and narrow, and yet they still land A320's on those post stamps, nothing like landing on a 3300 meters runway.
So sure there's bad pilots everywhere but don't forget about all the good ones. I did work in the Phils and seen good pilots and aweful pilots (sorry but most of them weren't good pilots but yet there's a few really good guys).
