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Philippine Air Lines A320 again in Runway excursion

This time - and what's new? - A philippine Air Lines A320 made a RWY excursion in Mindanao after LDG.

What's happening to their A320 crews?

PAL plane partly skids off Shariff Kabunsuan runway - INQUIRER.net, Philippine News for Filipinos

Seems to be the airport of Cotabato City.

Quote:

PAL plane partly skids off Shariff Kabunsuan runway

By Edwin Fernandez
Philippine Daily Inquirer
First Posted 18:19:00 08/20/2008

COTABATO CITY—A Philippine Airlines Airbus A320 from Manila partly skidded off the runway after landing at the Awang airport in Shariff Kabunsuan province early afternoon Wednesday.
None of the plane's 80 passengers were injured although many of them were thrown into panic.
Major General Raymundo Ferrer, commander of the Army's 6th Infantry Division, said the plane which arrived at 2 p.m. was trying to turn around towards the tarmac area but its front tires slipped outside of the concrete runway and hit the soil.
This he said caused the plane to halt abruptly.
“The soil was quite soft so the tires got stuck," he said.
“We were surprised the plane suddenly stopped at the other end of the runway, then we were told to disembark,” a passenger said.
Ferrer said the incident could be due to pilot error.
"The way I look here, the pilot miscalculated the space as he was turning back the aircraft,” he said.
The airport's runway is shorter compared to other airports in Mindanao.

PAL-"It's All About Experience."

And what an experience that must have been.:rolleyes:

a bit of history..

CAPTAIN..

overbearing screaming eagle junior was part of the elite. handpicked from his class to teach in pal's prestigious flying school. after flying cross country to lingayen, he and the boys landed in omni one day with Q-tipped (bent) props. a new modification for their little Cessnas. blamed it on killer crosswinds blowing from the lingayen gulf they say. so from then on, it was forbidden for palav cessnas to land in that nice little airport.

now the soft spots in cotabato. will wonderboy be able to do the great escape again in cotabato? killer runways with soft spots are unsafe. lets see what retired avp training daddy a.k.a screaming eagle can do for junior this time.

FIRST OFFICER..

they all belong to A.O. 2000A.. all in the top 5 of the class.. tacloban.. butuan.. cotabato.. maybe something is terribly wrong. need i say more?

319/320 incidents

The latest score is PAL=3, BUPAK= ZERO.:8

PAL = 3 Bupak= 0

Pal should start auditing their training as most of the 3 incidents are human factor related. From what I gather in the 747 most of the line instructor are first time captain in the equipment...they should start putting experienced instructor in the wide body we don't want any incident in these big whale...If the selection of your instructor is based on Bata-Bata system...accident of human error are not far from reality...A well trained pilot is a safe pilot...If training is expensive then incident like this comes with a price ( reputation, inconvinience, downtime, grounding, airport closure, investigation, chismis...etc.). Though accident can be prevented (Prevention is better than Cure). Pal should start looking into training...There must be something missing or something is wrong...Just a friendly advise:ok:...Safety should be our utmost Concern.

Is there a race/contest here? Is there a need to gloat at the misfortune of a fellow pilot? What a race we really are? Tsk.. tsk.

Parsifal,

Nobody mentioned a feeling of happiness from what had happened. Nobody was gloating to their misfortune, if thats what you think. And was it misfortune? This Pilots were trained to do the right thing, would deviation from this set standards justify an UNEVENTFUL flight? or for this matter a TURN? I wouldnt personally say that they're unlucky, instead they have to accept ,that they were Wrong. An Airplane will not drive itself to something, but rather a Hand will bring it somewhere.

If John Holmes is scoring it 3 to none, thats because he has facts in hand(based in History). Maybe Cebupac safety standards is at best compared to PAL right now.

I suggest you read again the whole thread.

Enjoy gaining your time,

Cessna

i have enough time already but still enjoying piling it, fyi. my point only is to be more kind in our remarks and not to be judgemental about what others had done. things like those could happen even to the best of us.

"none of us is better than all of us"

I never intended to gloat on other Pilot's misfortunes Parsifal...we all have bad days now and then.

I forgot to include the Unfortunate Bacolod overshoot it the 90's. So now the score is PAL=4, BUPAK = ZERO.

Let's all fly safe and MAY THE SCORE NEVER ADD UP.

Parsifal,

The Pilots did the mistake, but definitely fingers arent pointed at them( in my personal opinion , of course). But then again, they're with Philippine Airlines where Pilot culture affect compliance of SOPs and company policies. And theres no way PAL will accept fault from what had happen.

We have to accept "bata-bata"still exist. Yourself is a kid of a Former PAL pilot, and the probability of you joining them in your Minimum time is most likely. Modesty aside you should accept this fact, for the truth is this is your hopeful thinking. So, dont be afraid to address your true feelings for such event. DONT try to be kind now, just because you like to appease them(PAL pilots reading this thread). It will not help you in your course to a successful career.

Do you know why such event can happen to the BEST of the BEST you mentioned? BECAUSE, of that One moment in time that they let down their guard and deviated from the SOPs and Policies.

Theres no Sharp Pilot, No Best Pilots around too, Only Standard Pilots and nothing more. If theres more than this, i have no idea what its called.

Cessna

PAL.....hmmm lucky again! Not one fatality (good thing) which means nothing will change (bad thing). Although maybe LT is a bit sick of paying for pilot's mistakes??? Naaaa I'm sure he can afford it.

silver_streak and John Holmes junior.... you must still be young because it wasn't all that long ago that BUPAK killed 104 people on a side of Mount Sumagaya. You ask why?.... mechanical failure???? NOPE. Bupak CRM. So does that make it a even?

To Planestupid....Read the Title. It says 319/320 INCIDENTS.

I do not see the numbers as a score but a trend. Trend of incidents is a good forecast for a Major Accident.

CebPac has established a "system" as a countermeasure regarding this trend with their hard lesson on flight 5J-387. By the way, the PF was an ex-PAL and this was the only accident of CebPac.

If the trend can not be corrected ASAP, I foresee a major disaster waiting to happen. This will add to their very very long list of accidents/incidents. (Ref: PAL Wikipedia)

Maybe they can afford this to happen for the reason that they can even afford to lose many of their best and experienced pilots up to now. I see them often around the Globe.

Somebody powerful enough must take action. Start with the people who are directly responsible but did not do anything to prevent it to happen as it happened again. Kicking ass right now is better than paying the direct and indirect cost of accident in the future.

No Offense!!!

"The latest score is PAL=3, BUPAK= ZERO."
:= it can happen to anyone of us .

"Modesty aside, the most of us experienced ones have transferred out to other airlines."
:yuk:
and these incidents /accidents happened while you were there :

Flight Designation Date Aircraft Location Description Casualties[59] N/A January 24, 1950 Douglas DC-3 Iloilo City The aircraft crashed en route to Mandurriao Airport. Fatalities: 4 N/A March 30, 1952 Douglas DC-3 Baguio City Loakan Airport, crashed upon takeoff Fatalities: 10 N/A January 14, 1954 Douglas DC-6 Rome, Italy Crashed in Ciampino Airport while attempting to land in heavy turbulence, which led to an engine fire. Fatalities: 16 PR S26 November 23, 1960 Douglas DC-3 Manila Crashed in Mount Baco while en route to Manila due to poor weather conditions. Fatalities: 33 PR S85 December 22, 1960 Douglas DC-3 Cebu City Mactan-Cebu International Airport upon takeoff after a failure of the number one engine. Fatalities: 28 PR 984 March 2, 1963 Douglas DC-3 Davao City Crashed due to premature descent. Fatalities: 27 PR 946 February 21, 1964 Douglas DC-3 Marawi City Crashed due to pilot error upon landing approach. Fatalities: 31 PR 785 June 29, 1966 Douglas DC-3 Sablayan, Occidental Mindoro PR 345 February 28, 1967 Fokker F-27 Friendship Cebu City Crashed in Mactan-Cebu International Airport during landing due to an aft center of gravity condition resulting from improper loading. Fatalities: 12 PR 385 July 6, 1967 Fokker F-27 Friendship Bacolod City Crashed into a mountain. Fatalities: 21 PR 158 September 12, 1969 BAC One-Eleven Antipolo City Crashed short on a hill upon landing approach. Fatalities: 45 PR 215 April 21, 1970 Hawker Siddeley HS 748 Manila Crashed in Nichols Field after a bomb exploded in the rear cargo section. Fatalities: 36 PR 463 November 28, 1972 Hawker Siddeley HS 748 Bislig City Bounced and swerved on landing. The nosegear, wings and propellers were severely damaged. None N/A February 3, 1975 Hawker Siddeley HS 748 Manila Nichols Field after a fire developed in the number two engine shortly after takeoff. It was also due to crew error in their inability to deal with a standard emergency. Fatalities: 33 PR 421 April 18, 1977 Douglas DC-8 Tokyo, Japan A DC-8-53 named "Champaca" (RP-C803) was written off after a landing accident at Haneda Airport. None PR 206 June 27, 1987 Hawker Siddeley HS 748 Itogon, Benguet Crashed in Mount Ugu, fifteen kilometers south of Loakan Airport in Baguio City, due to poor visibility. Fatalities: 50 N/A December 13, 1987 Short 360-300 Iligan City Crashed near Maria Cristina Airport. Fatalities: 15 N/A July 21, 1989 BAC One-Eleven Manila Crashed at Ninoy Aquino International Airport PR 143 May 11, 1990 Boeing 737-300 Manila EI-BZG suffered an explosion in the center fuel tank near the terminal of Ninoy Aquino International Airport while preparing for takeoff. The fire and smoke engulfed the aircraft before it could be completely evacuated. The explosion was similar to what happened to the ill-fated TWA Flight 800 six years later. Fatalities: 8 PR 434 December 11, 1994 Boeing 747-200 Minami Daito, Okinawa, Japan A small bomb exploded underneath the seat (seat 26K) of Japanese businessman Haruki Ikegami. Ikegami died due to injuries sustained in the explosion, but none of the aircraft's other 293 passengers and crew were killed. The aircraft landed safely. Investigators later found that Ramzi Yousef planted the bomb there to test it out for a terrorist attack he was planning, Project Bojinka. The plan was foiled after an apartment fire in Manila led investigators to the laptop computer and disks containing the plan. Fatalities: 1 PR 137 March 22, 1998 Airbus A320 Bacolod City The aircraft overran the runway of Bacolod City Domestic Airport and crashed, plowing through homes near its end. Ground Fatalities: 3 The aircraft, with registration number PI-C270 and departing from Crashed in Crashed due to crew error, severe turbulence and strong gusty winds. Fatalities: 26 Crashed in when the aircraft overran the runway while landing, impacting several vehicles on an adjacent roadway. Ground Fatalities: 8

P.S,
now , does that make it even? - NOT!

I got dizzy counting it all up...

The latest score:

A319/320 Incidents: PAL=4, BUPAK= 0

Fatal Incidents: PAL=18, BUPAK= 1
additionally...AIRPHIL =1 , ASIAN SPIRIT= 1

change topic na pls...:bored:

There seem so much i could learn from you if only i could fly with you. But you are not obviously with PAL anymore so that seems remotely possible. We both agree that change should happen at PAL. But that change could be made only from the inside not from outside looking in. You could be that agent of change if you go back there and be an influence regardless of the presence of the assholes and bastards presently competing for the ass of Lucio. One could make a difference.

Fortunately or not, i am not a PAL kid but i have feelings for this Company. Afterall, it carries the name of my country.

parsifal

I don't think any "sane" pilot would think of coming back to the Phils given the reason you gave. It just doesn't make it.

Good luck to you all!

:rolleyes:

"Modesty aside, the most of us experienced ones have transferred out to other airlines. Pay standardization eventually got started or so we've heard, but it was too little too late.

In fairness, PAL's present generation of pilots are a promising batch. But the company has to live with needing to wait again before it again enjoys the level of experience it is supposed to have."

I beg to disagree Wamba wamba. Looking back, the recent Tacloban and Butuan accidents were flown by very experienced captains.

I tend to believe that the problem lies in culture and training. PAL pilots should quit believing they are the best pilots around and start reviewing the god important images of captains. Maybe if they start realizing this things will begin to turn around.

The big boy in A320 training still feels like god with at least 2 runway excursions under his watch. And dreaming of a B777 post? Delicadeza is not alive and well in PAL.

well said.....:);):Ochange will have to start from the Macho's themselves (go back to planet earth) from the CP A343/333 down to a few Line Pilots exposed to this mediocres

Command Responsibility

After the 5J-387 accident, the first one to be sacked by the "Big Boss" was the Director for Training, then followed by the VP then the CP. It all happened in few months time after the accident. All of them were Ex-PALers. This was how CebPac clearly defined "COMMAND RESPONSIBILITY."

A very strick Safety Audit was conducted to the Company by the FAA and ATO Inspectors as sanctioned by Malacanang. As a result, most of the Pilots were retrained in Flight Safety Academy in Miami, Florida. In addition to this was the voluminous compliances submitted by the company to both the FAA and ATO inspectors. This action has lifted the grounding of all the DC-9 Aircratfs. Pilots who completed their retraining were the first one to fly.

This has started the Safety Culture in CebPac (not a "Macho Culture"). A part of the training for an FO was to shout a "Go-Around", if he feels unsafe and uncomfortable with the Captains' approach. It happened many times in the line in many occasions such as bad weather and unstabilized approach. It saves them much of the costly equipment and priceless lives.

Do PAL really need another accident to happen in order to change their "people" and "culture" with the cost of Human Lives?

My point of view is very simple and objective. It needs a change in the "LEADERSHIP".

Who is the "Big Boss"?

NO OFFENSE!!!