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Vietnam Airlines (info please)

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Vietnam Airlines (info please)

Old 15th Oct 2017, 06:05
  #1421 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Hanoi
Posts: 34
Originally Posted by Sunliner81 View Post
What part of being a contract pilot do you guys not understand? If the contract says 'you can be terminated with 60 days notice, if your services are no longer required', and you guys sign the bloody contract, why are you crying foul when it happens? Besides, you can go anywhere with a current 320 rating, so what's the big deal? You must actually like flying and living in Vietnam if your getting so upset about being 'fired' with 60 days notice. You cannot come to Vietnam expecting a 15 year career stint (although this has happened for many) when you sign a contract for 5 years with a 60 day termination clause. This 60 day termination clause gives the airline the flexibility to get rid of you should they not need you, and as more and more locals come online - rightly so, it's their airline. Ride the wave while it lasts, enjoy it, when it stops, move on.
Exactly, thatís the point. The 60 days notice. They used this clause with the expat SFO, and they will do the same with the expat Captains, LTC, TRI and TRE within the next 2 years... Almost 500 new cadets joining now... And many local Captains waiting for some kind of upgrade... and more Local FO waiting for the Upgrade... What do u think that will happen with you?? Do u think they will let you continue for another 14 years?? Probably, if you renew your contract recently, you will not reach the 5 years of your contract... And thatís why we are try to prevent to other colleagues to join this company... Yes, they can do what they want, is their airline, and they will not give one shit for you. Many A320 jobs, yes, but you donít have nothing for sure buddy. This is what is happening now. Expat pilots being fired using this clause of the 60 days notice. You canít say this is a lie, right??? Thatís why we want to prevent everybody about this contract, with this company. For short time... Maybe one year, ok, but donít planify much more... Then find another place and another company... And about living in VN... The only one good point is that you can save a lot of money ( if you get used to the local living style ) or you can waste even much more than in your own country ( if you canít get used to the local life style ). You canít buy a car, first becauee has no sense... There are no roads ready for driving a car, and you are rounded all time for millions of motorbikes trying to pass first!! Maybe you can kill someone soon or later, if you drive a car in VN. And the taxes... You will pay 3 times the price of a normal car in Europe. So, where is the good point of living in Vietnam? There is NOTHING. Just the commuting contract, because you can scape from here often. Ah, i forgot, as the only one good point in this country... The girls, ok, i agree with that... This is a huge cheap candy store. So, having this in mind, sorry... I canít recommend to any of my friendd or colleagues to leave their actual companies for something like this. Good luck you all!!
Yesse is offline  
Old 15th Oct 2017, 10:15
  #1422 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: not sure
Posts: 12
I agree with you with regards to your advice for pilots who are considering a long term career at VN. The outlook is not very good. In the past it was good in terms of longevity, but nothing last forever. Remember, not everyone is looking for a long term thing and I believe there is still a few years left in it for captains. In saying this, you would be pretty foolish as an expat in any foreign country to expect longevity as a pilot on contract.

And about living in VN... The only one good point is that you can save a lot of money ( if you get used to the local living style ) or you can waste even much more than in your own country ( if you canít get used to the local life style ). You canít buy a car, first becauee has no sense... There are no roads ready for driving a car, and you are rounded all time for millions of motorbikes trying to pass first!! Maybe you can kill someone soon or later, if you drive a car in VN. And the taxes... You will pay 3 times the price of a normal car in Europe. So, where is the good point of living in Vietnam? There is NOTHING. Just the commuting contract, because you can escape from here often. Ah, i forgot, as the only one good point in this country... The girls, ok, i agree with that... This is a huge cheap candy store. So, having this in mind, sorry... I canít recommend to any of my friends or colleagues to leave their actual companies for something like this.
Who the hell needs or wants a car in Vietnam?? The pay is good, the commute is good. What else do you expect or want from a S/E Asian nation? Where else do you think is better for an expat with regards to lifestyle? China? Africa, Middle East? If you can't be satisfied in Vietnam, you will probably never be satisfied anywhere. Probably best to go home my friend, or are you unhappy there too?
Sunliner81 is offline  
Old 15th Oct 2017, 13:58
  #1423 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Hanoi
Posts: 34
Originally Posted by Sunliner81 View Post
I agree with you with regards to your advice for pilots who are considering a long term career at VN. The outlook is not very good. In the past it was good in terms of longevity, but nothing last forever. Remember, not everyone is looking for a long term thing and I believe there is still a few years left in it for captains. In saying this, you would be pretty foolish as an expat in any foreign country to expect longevity as a pilot on contract.



Who the hell needs or wants a car in Vietnam?? The pay is good, the commute is good. What else do you expect or want from a S/E Asian nation? Where else do you think is better for an expat with regards to lifestyle? China? Africa, Middle East? If you can't be satisfied in Vietnam, you will probably never be satisfied anywhere. Probably best to go home my friend, or are you unhappy there too?
Many people love to drive cars everywhere. But here is impossible... No rules, and of course, no respect anywhere. Easy to find a huge bus invading ur lane, and flashing lights, asking you to abandon your lane for him to pass. The red lights are ignored also, and many many other things... Just like 9 million people driving on the street same as 4 years old kids with bicicles in the park, same rules. Examples better than VN? Where the streets are clean, and at least there is more order for living, which finally means a better quallity of life... Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Indonesia and yes, even China. You fly to China anyway with VNA, but flying in a chinese airline, at least they will give you always more priority than VNA. So, better to fly in China than VNA under all points of view. The only one thing i would recomend is, for a short period of time, fly with VNA, leave before you are being fired shortly, gain experience in this side of the world, then your transition will be better and easier. VNA is very relaxed, because they still have not much idea about anything... They just pretend to know. So you will feel comfortable and relaxed. Then, go to another better place. So just consider VNA as a transition company, donít think about any future here. I hope we agree with this now. Good luck.
Yesse is offline  
Old 21st Oct 2017, 22:32
  #1424 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Uk
Posts: 62
Any likelihood of 787 direct entry Captains in the near future?
Sucram is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2017, 10:51
  #1425 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 36N 33E
Posts: 116
Originally Posted by Sucram View Post
Any likelihood of 787 direct entry Captains in the near future?
The chances are slim to none even though a lot of expats left that fleet and VNA lately; I wouldn't get my hopes up, nothing in VNA is for sure as an Expat... why would you want to come here anyways..?
Besides,
EagleA25 is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2017, 13:00
  #1426 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: australia
Posts: 43
Isit true VNA offering Defo straight to command?
HH Chan is offline  
Old 3rd Nov 2017, 04:10
  #1427 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 36N 33E
Posts: 116
Originally Posted by HH Chan View Post
Isit true VNA offering Defo straight to command?
Nope... VNA is currently only upgrading a few Senior Expat FO's who's contract seems to have a clause (pay to fly/upgrade); and local Vietnamese FO's who have met the "new and improved" requierements...!
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Old 5th Nov 2017, 02:52
  #1428 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Eagles Nest
Posts: 50
Originally Posted by EagleA25 View Post
Nope... VNA is currently only upgrading a few Senior Expat FO's who's contract seems to have a clause (pay to fly/upgrade); and local Vietnamese FO's who have met the "new and improved" requierements...!
"new and improved requirements" ? This means one additional year or two of sleeping on the job or playing candy crush ?
wingdeagle is offline  
Old 7th Nov 2017, 07:24
  #1429 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 36N 33E
Posts: 116
Originally Posted by wingdeagle View Post
"new and improved requirements" ? This means one additional year or two of sleeping on the job or playing candy crush ?
Nahh, it means that due to the Off-Road incident in Hanoi a few months ago the Insurance Company has increased the premiums for FO's upgrading with less than 5000hrs Total Time and 32 years of age (I was told that number by a few FO's). Those seem to be the new requierements...
The direction of the company though is still very vague and seems to change as often as they update the edocs; notable new procedures are in place though: Pilots are now signing Maintenance releases in certain Airports in the A321 fleet; this will increase the responsability and workload; niw you will be blamed for something a Technitian was trained for years to detects and understand; you will, oficially, get 16 hours of hands on quality training!

Long time Expats belive the "happy times" are over: most Expat Captains are already complaining about flying almost to the permissible limit of 100 hours, and short notice schedule changes are now frequent. All Standbys are activated due to lack of pilots in all fleets.
Also, the FOM just changed the "respect your day off" clause; your day off can now always be your "day on"; supposedly ots negotiable, but when you know you'll always pull a short straw, what's to negotiate.
In general the work ambience, at least on the Airbus Fleet here in SGN, has lost a LOT of quality...!
Fun fact though: the more they expand, the more they fly, the more discontent pilots will be, the less pilots will want to join or stick around, the more you get to fly if you stick around, especially on your days off; its a vicious circle. And pay has been the same for Expats for quite some time...
One comment I heared also was that VNA had a lot of complaints from local FO's about ex-S7 Pilots; apparently there are a lot of cultural issues and VNA won't recruit nor renew those Captains contracts. Again, all rumors I hear from local FO's; I don't stick around at the local water holes socializing a lot; with angry wife and two kids things are not as harmonic at home as they could be...
The few Western Expats who are willing to take the new rules are keeping a close eye on things and it appears things are getting worse each month.
Good luck out there
EagleA25 is offline  
Old 8th Nov 2017, 01:05
  #1430 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Eagles Nest
Posts: 50
Originally Posted by EagleA25 View Post
Nahh, it means that due to the Off-Road incident in Hanoi a few months ago the Insurance Company has increased the premiums for FO's upgrading with less than 5000hrs Total Time and 32 years of age (I was told that number by a few FO's). Those seem to be the new requierements...
The direction of the company though is still very vague and seems to change as often as they update the edocs; notable new procedures are in place though: Pilots are now signing Maintenance releases in certain Airports in the A321 fleet; this will increase the responsability and workload; niw you will be blamed for something a Technitian was trained for years to detects and understand; you will, oficially, get 16 hours of hands on quality training!

Long time Expats belive the "happy times" are over: most Expat Captains are already complaining about flying almost to the permissible limit of 100 hours, and short notice schedule changes are now frequent. All Standbys are activated due to lack of pilots in all fleets.
Also, the FOM just changed the "respect your day off" clause; your day off can now always be your "day on"; supposedly ots negotiable, but when you know you'll always pull a short straw, what's to negotiate.
In general the work ambience, at least on the Airbus Fleet here in SGN, has lost a LOT of quality...!
Fun fact though: the more they expand, the more they fly, the more discontent pilots will be, the less pilots will want to join or stick around, the more you get to fly if you stick around, especially on your days off; its a vicious circle. And pay has been the same for Expats for quite some time...
One comment I heared also was that VNA had a lot of complaints from local FO's about ex-S7 Pilots; apparently there are a lot of cultural issues and VNA won't recruit nor renew those Captains contracts. Again, all rumors I hear from local FO's; I don't stick around at the local water holes socializing a lot; with angry wife and two kids things are not as harmonic at home as they could be...
The few Western Expats who are willing to take the new rules are keeping a close eye on things and it appears things are getting worse each month.
Good luck out there
So far for the wishful thinking of getting rid of all expats, like some on this board have been "warning". With a substandard contract (pay and benefits well below most Asian contracts) I wonder how much longer they will be able to fill the seats with expats. Through all these years VNA somehow always managed to get a group of pilots agreeing to work for substandard wages and working conditions. Now that the "happy days" have come to a close and the market is drying up, it will be interesting to watch how it all will keep unfolding.
Pilots signing off on maintenance releases is a liability and could be a career braker. Surprised guys agree to this.
wingdeagle is offline  
Old 24th Dec 2017, 15:47
  #1431 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Italy
Posts: 2
Hi guys, do you know if there are any Italian pilots in VNA? I would like to talk with an Italian to understand his experience with VNA
walterdiba is offline  
Old 25th Dec 2017, 08:13
  #1432 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 36N 33E
Posts: 116
Originally Posted by walterdiba View Post
Hi guys, do you know if there are any Italian pilots in VNA? I would like to talk with an Italian to understand his experience with VNA
Hmmm, I met a few Italian FOís here in the past; but the few I met already moved on to Wizz or other adventures; actually, quite a few of the Expat FOís that were let go this year were Italians, thinking of it...
EagleA25 is offline  
Old 25th Dec 2017, 08:20
  #1433 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 7
You wont get a decent pizza here.
ia1166 is offline  
Old 25th Dec 2017, 08:32
  #1434 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 7
Originally Posted by Yesse View Post
Many people love to drive cars everywhere. But here is impossible... No rules, and of course, no respect anywhere. Easy to find a huge bus invading ur lane, and flashing lights, asking you to abandon your lane for him to pass. The red lights are ignored also, and many many other things... Just like 9 million people driving on the street same as 4 years old kids with bicicles in the park, same rules. Examples better than VN? Where the streets are clean, and at least there is more order for living, which finally means a better quallity of life... Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Indonesia and yes, even China. You fly to China anyway with VNA, but flying in a chinese airline, at least they will give you always more priority than VNA. So, better to fly in China than VNA under all points of view. The only one thing i would recomend is, for a short period of time, fly with VNA, leave before you are being fired shortly, gain experience in this side of the world, then your transition will be better and easier. VNA is very relaxed, because they still have not much idea about anything... They just pretend to know. So you will feel comfortable and relaxed. Then, go to another better place. So just consider VNA as a transition company, donít think about any future here. I hope we agree with this now. Good luck.

Why would someone who lists driving cars as a hobby or interest consider a job in Vietnam?

Unbelivable what some people complain about. I love hunting, sailing, skiing, and trekking. 6 and 3 gives me ample time to pursue these things. I am not here to pursue my pastimes, but to allow me enough time off to do them.

For that this job gives me exactly what i need from work. Time off to enjoy life.
ia1166 is offline  
Old 25th Dec 2017, 10:56
  #1435 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 36N 33E
Posts: 116
Originally Posted by ia1166 View Post
You wont get a decent pizza here.
Classic 🤦🏼*♂️😁
EagleA25 is offline  
Old 25th Dec 2017, 11:23
  #1436 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 7
Originally Posted by EagleA25 View Post
Classic 🤦🏼*♂️😁

Xmas in paradise eagle?
ia1166 is offline  
Old 25th Dec 2017, 12:11
  #1437 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Ziltoidia... indeed'd.
Posts: 285
Originally Posted by ia1166 View Post
You wont get a decent pizza here.
4P's, either SGN or HAN. Amazing pizza, said by 99.999% of the Italians I've met here.
iggy is offline  
Old 25th Dec 2017, 15:31
  #1438 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Italy
Posts: 2
It's not a matter of pizza I would like to talk with an Italian about the life in Ho Chi Minh city, I'm not a pilot I'm an engineer

Last edited by walterdiba; 29th Dec 2017 at 14:05.
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Old 18th Jan 2018, 23:45
  #1439 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: asia
Posts: 98
Got the mail about the 350? Great deal isnít it? 35K + 20K bond, sweet ...
pezetaroi is offline  
Old 21st Jan 2018, 11:32
  #1440 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 36N 33E
Posts: 116
Originally Posted by pezetaroi View Post
Got the mail about the 350? Great deal isnít it? 35K + 20K bond, sweet ...
Please remember that it will be a ďFor Vietnam Airlines OnlyĒ Type... 🤦🏼*♂️
Also, it seems that some sort of seniority system is in place (first to pay 7-10k under the table to the fleet chief will be ďconsideredĒ)...
Word of wisdom: If you wish to do your initial A350 with quality, do it NOW; youíll be trained by proís in France; donít wait until the Type is trained in Saigon with local instructors...
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