Clark Institute of Aviation
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thank you sir FourStripes. 3543 feels more stable than the other three... if ever, i'd rather solo with that plane.
with all due respect, i can't speak for my dad. even if i would... it isn't something i'd just post here. but personally, i understand the delays and i'll give the school credit for some effort... but i hope they can expedite.
with all due respect, i can't speak for my dad. even if i would... it isn't something i'd just post here. but personally, i understand the delays and i'll give the school credit for some effort... but i hope they can expedite.
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Thanks
Hi Paulylo,
Many thanks for your candid and honest response. I wish you all the best!
Hope you can still post in the future when you're flying commercially already so that we get updated on your story and of the other cadets.
Many thanks for your candid and honest response. I wish you all the best!
Hope you can still post in the future when you're flying commercially already so that we get updated on your story and of the other cadets.
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http://downtown.vc/FVBWZPHKULMD/GulfairAudit.pdf.html
See why Gulf Air did not consider CIA for their training...........
See why Gulf Air did not consider CIA for their training...........
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wow looks like CIA has a lot of issues at the moment... wish I found this thread before I took the assessment so i could have clarified these issues with the CGI the during interview.
I took the assessment early this year although I have been wanting to do so since August last year. Perhaps it was a good thing that I didnt rush it. anyway based on what ive read so far im hardly discouraged with enrolling at the institute (hopefully within the next few months).
problems will always exist, and a company which is just starting is sure to encounter a lot of bumps along the way. i sympathize with the the cadets who feel they are like guinea pigs although they should have conditioned themselves to expect delays given that the program is still very new. part of the risk in joining too soon...
anyway im looking forward to reading more on this topic, the MPL program and aviation in general. keep this thread alive guys!
-just a wannabe who's gonna be eventually hehehe
I took the assessment early this year although I have been wanting to do so since August last year. Perhaps it was a good thing that I didnt rush it. anyway based on what ive read so far im hardly discouraged with enrolling at the institute (hopefully within the next few months).
problems will always exist, and a company which is just starting is sure to encounter a lot of bumps along the way. i sympathize with the the cadets who feel they are like guinea pigs although they should have conditioned themselves to expect delays given that the program is still very new. part of the risk in joining too soon...
anyway im looking forward to reading more on this topic, the MPL program and aviation in general. keep this thread alive guys!
-just a wannabe who's gonna be eventually hehehe
Last edited by ryezen; 23rd Apr 2008 at 02:47.
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ryezen
I feel sorry for you for not being able to read the writing on the wall. Better cut your losses as early as now and look for other options since you can spare 4M pesos.
Pilot training course earns stripes - Taken from the Australian Newspaper
SOME of the many misconceptions about the Multi-Crew Pilot Licence program are being swept away as pilots start to graduate from courses around the world.
Many believe that MPL is a knee-jerk safety-compromising reaction to the world's pilot shortage, but the reality is quite different.
MPL was developed by the International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) over six years in response to airline requests for a far more focused path for pilots.
For generations, airlines have relied on a steady stream of pilots from the military and GA (general aviation) but the supply can no longer meet demand and the poaching of pilots has become the norm, with countries such as India forced to legislate to bring stability to the pilot ranks.
The MPL, incorporated in 2006, is designed to train pilots between 12-18 months with 70 hours of actual hands-on flying, 10 hours of which must be solo, with a total of 240 hours simulator time.
However, Boeing's Alteon, which is conducting a beta test program in Brisbane with six Chinese pilots, is going beyond the ICAO MPL criteria requiring the trainees to spend 96 hours ina single-engine Diamond 40 aircraft and 350 hours in the Diamond DA-40 and 737-800 simulator.
That simulator time is broken down to 33 missions as co-pilot, 33 as captain and 33 as observer with each mission lasting about two hours. At the end of the course, they must complete 12 landings and take-offs in the 737-800.
Alteon Training's vice-president marketing Marsha Bell is upbeat on the beta test program. "We are seeing good indications that skill sets can be developed earlier," she says.
Also upbeat is Mark Pearson, CEO of Alpha Aviation Group's Philippine subsidiary Clark Aviation, which has 150 students moving through its year-long MPL course.
"We are delighted with the cadets' progress" he says, adding: "We have continual assessment and they are assessed virtually every day."
At the Clark Aviation course, pilots must complete 70 hours ofactual flying, with 30 hours being solo and 170 hours in the simulator.
Clark Aviation has a joint venture with Cebu Pacific, with the airline sponsoring 59 of the students at the training school.
As part of Alteon's beta test, it will continue to monitor the pilots for several years against pilots moving through the traditional channels.
Bell says various industry bodies are supporting the program, including the Association of Asian Pacific Airlines and IATA. Bell adds that MPL has "galvanised the industry".
And one area of focus is the harmonising of ATPL (Airline Transport Pilot Licence) licences.
"We hope to get a better product (ATPL licence) in the end," Bell says.
Some airlines such as Qantas and Cathay Pacific, while not having a critical pilot shortage problem, are examining elements of MPL to raise the standard of conventional ab initio training.
One element is MPL's focus on modern crew resource management and team building much earlier in the training.
One of the big advantages of MPL, which takes suitable candidates off the street, is that it is able to focus the training of pilots and "we don't get the challenge of weeding out bad habits", notes Bell.
However, Bell says one challenge is that some concepts should be taught in the native language of the students.
"We are finding difficulty in some areas with their (Chinese pilots') English language skills, which are fine for ATC communications but not adequate to comprehend more complex engineering," she says.
While recognising that language may be a problem with some nationalities, there have been no difficulties at the MPL course at Clark Aviation, says Pearson.
"We have a broad mix of students from around the world and ICAO's new standard Level 4 English has not been a problem," he says.
Alteon is making available the data from the beta test to the industry, as Bell explains, "so the industry can better understand what MPL is meant to be, rather than what they think, which is a rush to get pilots trained".
"This isn't a fad and we must get it right but we must not compromise safety," she adds.
For instance, Australia's Civil Aviation Safety Authority has added 465 sub-competencies to the nine broad ICAO requirements for the training of the co-pilots.
And to add spice, CASA requires each competency to be assessed twice on different flight training events.
An example is the ICAO requirement for five assessment levels for the take-off roll, to which CASA has added another four that list a further 29 sub-competency elements.
Bell says there are many misconceptions about MPL: "No solo flying, no command training, faster and cheaper training and of course a response to the pilot shortage," she says.
"What some do not comprehend is that trainees must demonstrate ATPL skill level to achieve MPL. Importantly, crew-based integrating CRM (crew resource management) and Airline SOPs (standard operational procedures) are introduced much earlier in the training.
"MPL is a response to the fact that ICAO's 40-year-old Standards and Recommended Practices didn't reflect training capabilities of advanced training devices, especially high-fidelity simulation."
With the success of Clark Aviations MPL program, the Alpha Aviation Group signed a joint venture with Air Arabia in November to build an International Aviation Training Academy to be based to Sharjah, United Arab Emirates, to train the airline's pilots for A320 operations using MPL. Air Arabia has 11 A320s and signed for another 49 at the Dubai Air Show.
Alpha also reached agreement with the Government of the Republic of Kazakhstan to create a similar academy in Kazakhstan to assist in providing pilots for Air Astana. Operations are expected to start in the second half of 2008. Alpha plans a global network of 10 schools. Not surprisingly Pearson concludes: "We are totally committed to MPL as it is far superior and relevant."
And totally committed is Scandinavia's largest pilot academy, Copenhagen-based Centre Air Pilot Academy of Denmark, which was the first training organisation in Europe with a Danish Civil Aviation Authority-approved MPL course.
It began developing the curriculum in 2004 in co-operation with Sterling Airlines based on the ICAO MPL draft, according to Anna Kjaer, CAPA's chief ground instructor and operating manager.
Kjaer, told Air Transport World; "This truly is an improved way to train pilots."
CAPA and Sterling maintained a close dialogue with the Danish CAA as the curriculum was being designed and also invited the airline's pilot union to participate.
Denmark approved the MPL standard in January 2007 and four pilots in training were transferred to the MPL course and graduated late last year.
Kjaer stressed during an Air Transport World global webcast early this month that MPL is not about saving time or money.
"The myth is that it's a shortcut and a quick way to train a whole bunch of pilots. That is, in our case, not the case," she said during the webcast. "MPL training is more efficient and time is spent only on relevant training"
Many believe that MPL is a knee-jerk safety-compromising reaction to the world's pilot shortage, but the reality is quite different.
MPL was developed by the International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) over six years in response to airline requests for a far more focused path for pilots.
For generations, airlines have relied on a steady stream of pilots from the military and GA (general aviation) but the supply can no longer meet demand and the poaching of pilots has become the norm, with countries such as India forced to legislate to bring stability to the pilot ranks.
The MPL, incorporated in 2006, is designed to train pilots between 12-18 months with 70 hours of actual hands-on flying, 10 hours of which must be solo, with a total of 240 hours simulator time.
However, Boeing's Alteon, which is conducting a beta test program in Brisbane with six Chinese pilots, is going beyond the ICAO MPL criteria requiring the trainees to spend 96 hours ina single-engine Diamond 40 aircraft and 350 hours in the Diamond DA-40 and 737-800 simulator.
That simulator time is broken down to 33 missions as co-pilot, 33 as captain and 33 as observer with each mission lasting about two hours. At the end of the course, they must complete 12 landings and take-offs in the 737-800.
Alteon Training's vice-president marketing Marsha Bell is upbeat on the beta test program. "We are seeing good indications that skill sets can be developed earlier," she says.
Also upbeat is Mark Pearson, CEO of Alpha Aviation Group's Philippine subsidiary Clark Aviation, which has 150 students moving through its year-long MPL course.
"We are delighted with the cadets' progress" he says, adding: "We have continual assessment and they are assessed virtually every day."
At the Clark Aviation course, pilots must complete 70 hours ofactual flying, with 30 hours being solo and 170 hours in the simulator.
Clark Aviation has a joint venture with Cebu Pacific, with the airline sponsoring 59 of the students at the training school.
As part of Alteon's beta test, it will continue to monitor the pilots for several years against pilots moving through the traditional channels.
Bell says various industry bodies are supporting the program, including the Association of Asian Pacific Airlines and IATA. Bell adds that MPL has "galvanised the industry".
And one area of focus is the harmonising of ATPL (Airline Transport Pilot Licence) licences.
"We hope to get a better product (ATPL licence) in the end," Bell says.
Some airlines such as Qantas and Cathay Pacific, while not having a critical pilot shortage problem, are examining elements of MPL to raise the standard of conventional ab initio training.
One element is MPL's focus on modern crew resource management and team building much earlier in the training.
One of the big advantages of MPL, which takes suitable candidates off the street, is that it is able to focus the training of pilots and "we don't get the challenge of weeding out bad habits", notes Bell.
However, Bell says one challenge is that some concepts should be taught in the native language of the students.
"We are finding difficulty in some areas with their (Chinese pilots') English language skills, which are fine for ATC communications but not adequate to comprehend more complex engineering," she says.
While recognising that language may be a problem with some nationalities, there have been no difficulties at the MPL course at Clark Aviation, says Pearson.
"We have a broad mix of students from around the world and ICAO's new standard Level 4 English has not been a problem," he says.
Alteon is making available the data from the beta test to the industry, as Bell explains, "so the industry can better understand what MPL is meant to be, rather than what they think, which is a rush to get pilots trained".
"This isn't a fad and we must get it right but we must not compromise safety," she adds.
For instance, Australia's Civil Aviation Safety Authority has added 465 sub-competencies to the nine broad ICAO requirements for the training of the co-pilots.
And to add spice, CASA requires each competency to be assessed twice on different flight training events.
An example is the ICAO requirement for five assessment levels for the take-off roll, to which CASA has added another four that list a further 29 sub-competency elements.
Bell says there are many misconceptions about MPL: "No solo flying, no command training, faster and cheaper training and of course a response to the pilot shortage," she says.
"What some do not comprehend is that trainees must demonstrate ATPL skill level to achieve MPL. Importantly, crew-based integrating CRM (crew resource management) and Airline SOPs (standard operational procedures) are introduced much earlier in the training.
"MPL is a response to the fact that ICAO's 40-year-old Standards and Recommended Practices didn't reflect training capabilities of advanced training devices, especially high-fidelity simulation."
With the success of Clark Aviations MPL program, the Alpha Aviation Group signed a joint venture with Air Arabia in November to build an International Aviation Training Academy to be based to Sharjah, United Arab Emirates, to train the airline's pilots for A320 operations using MPL. Air Arabia has 11 A320s and signed for another 49 at the Dubai Air Show.
Alpha also reached agreement with the Government of the Republic of Kazakhstan to create a similar academy in Kazakhstan to assist in providing pilots for Air Astana. Operations are expected to start in the second half of 2008. Alpha plans a global network of 10 schools. Not surprisingly Pearson concludes: "We are totally committed to MPL as it is far superior and relevant."
And totally committed is Scandinavia's largest pilot academy, Copenhagen-based Centre Air Pilot Academy of Denmark, which was the first training organisation in Europe with a Danish Civil Aviation Authority-approved MPL course.
It began developing the curriculum in 2004 in co-operation with Sterling Airlines based on the ICAO MPL draft, according to Anna Kjaer, CAPA's chief ground instructor and operating manager.
Kjaer, told Air Transport World; "This truly is an improved way to train pilots."
CAPA and Sterling maintained a close dialogue with the Danish CAA as the curriculum was being designed and also invited the airline's pilot union to participate.
Denmark approved the MPL standard in January 2007 and four pilots in training were transferred to the MPL course and graduated late last year.
Kjaer stressed during an Air Transport World global webcast early this month that MPL is not about saving time or money.
"The myth is that it's a shortcut and a quick way to train a whole bunch of pilots. That is, in our case, not the case," she said during the webcast. "MPL training is more efficient and time is spent only on relevant training"
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@FourStripes
we're not there yet...
at least 5 of our flight instructors were given the go signal by the ATO and agreed to terms with CA's management to fly (finally). it allows 40+ of us cadets not training under OMNI to complete our core flying training as soon as possible. the only problem is i don't know how an instructor can train 4-5 cadets in just 6 hours straight per day as posted in our schedules... there's still post-flight briefings and maintenance checks every 25 flight hours per plane to considered (one of the planes is still in the hangar for repairs). VFR doesn't open until 6am and closes at around 6pm... but it looks like the instructors will be training in the dark for a couple of hours.
that somewhat solves the core-training portion of the delay and it really is great news, but there's still IFR training which the first few batches are still doing with OMNI (what are we going to fly once we get to where they are?)... and the all important question of training us with one level D A320 simulator. we've been given promises on how CA's management will solve those issues (which doesn't have to be mentioned here) but unless it's written in fine print, we'd expect anothet set of delays in the near future.
i'm sticking with my position... the school will do everything it can to finish what it had started because it'll be a shame if they don't and it'll make Alpha Aviation Group the only flop of ICAO's MPL initiative. no one wants that to happen. so far, the current management team is doing it's job well. we're now more focused on the training itself rather than wondering if our parents and Cebu Pacific wasted their money.
we're not there yet...
at least 5 of our flight instructors were given the go signal by the ATO and agreed to terms with CA's management to fly (finally). it allows 40+ of us cadets not training under OMNI to complete our core flying training as soon as possible. the only problem is i don't know how an instructor can train 4-5 cadets in just 6 hours straight per day as posted in our schedules... there's still post-flight briefings and maintenance checks every 25 flight hours per plane to considered (one of the planes is still in the hangar for repairs). VFR doesn't open until 6am and closes at around 6pm... but it looks like the instructors will be training in the dark for a couple of hours.
that somewhat solves the core-training portion of the delay and it really is great news, but there's still IFR training which the first few batches are still doing with OMNI (what are we going to fly once we get to where they are?)... and the all important question of training us with one level D A320 simulator. we've been given promises on how CA's management will solve those issues (which doesn't have to be mentioned here) but unless it's written in fine print, we'd expect anothet set of delays in the near future.
i'm sticking with my position... the school will do everything it can to finish what it had started because it'll be a shame if they don't and it'll make Alpha Aviation Group the only flop of ICAO's MPL initiative. no one wants that to happen. so far, the current management team is doing it's job well. we're now more focused on the training itself rather than wondering if our parents and Cebu Pacific wasted their money.
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Training
well i hope they finally get there acts together, i wonder why our new GM resigned, they said it was personal, i actually heard that he only wanted his working visa, now he works with another company. maybe also he was disappointed at the way things are being run.
just to comment on another article i read about.
who is RN to tell us students that we can not post here.
i would like to get feedback from the forum heads if thats ethical. the students are entitled to post their feedback so that others will see if the school is worth the php4 million. maybe RN is trying hide something by suggesting that we students dont post here.
just to comment on another article i read about.
who is RN to tell us students that we can not post here.
i would like to get feedback from the forum heads if thats ethical. the students are entitled to post their feedback so that others will see if the school is worth the php4 million. maybe RN is trying hide something by suggesting that we students dont post here.
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Cw Fiasco
here i am again. more news from CIA. the rumor about CW resigning is true. he called in 1 day & just resigned, that fast, he cant do that if he has a contract. they said its for personal reasons which is bull, he resign because he got his working visa and went to work for another company. MP must realy be good at his job, he cant even keep a GM. We also heard that the GM was tried, maybe he saw whats realy going on and resigned. Was he that good??????? 
now they even have another foreigner coming to manage, doesnt MP have any faith in the filipinos???? I heard his 1st name starts with an A and is from england. he doesnt even know anything about the Philippines or its culture!
MP are you trying to get all the english working in the Philippines, HAHAHA
again dont you have any faith in us filipinos???????????????????
now they even have another foreigner coming to manage, doesnt MP have any faith in the filipinos???? I heard his 1st name starts with an A and is from england. he doesnt even know anything about the Philippines or its culture!
MP are you trying to get all the english working in the Philippines, HAHAHA
again dont you have any faith in us filipinos???????????????????
Last edited by skypilot66666; 30th Apr 2008 at 09:49.
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and go to Alpha Aviation Group site and read their statements about Clark. if they can not manage this school, then how they are considering opening new academies in UAE and Kazakhistan?
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very nice public relations
Voice of the students
"The course sets new standards for the new generation of professional pilots and the quality of the instructors makes this facility a cut above the rest" Jerome Co
A great place to be, with a staff ever willing to help, you never feel out of place. Friendly locals and course mates make you feel at home. The beautiful surroundings are the icing on the cake" Thomas Fernandez
"World class facilities and world class training that is worth every cent" JP Ramirez
"The premiere place to start ones aviation career" Allen Tacang
"The course sets new standards for the new generation of professional pilots and the quality of the instructors makes this facility a cut above the rest" Jerome Co
A great place to be, with a staff ever willing to help, you never feel out of place. Friendly locals and course mates make you feel at home. The beautiful surroundings are the icing on the cake" Thomas Fernandez
"World class facilities and world class training that is worth every cent" JP Ramirez
"The premiere place to start ones aviation career" Allen Tacang
http://www.alphagroup.aero/clark/cla...e-information/
looks like the students are enjoying themselves, despite the delay in training......
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well i dont care who advertises here. the point is when the forum members start bad mouthing each other then this forum serves no purpose. Clark has many problems with their management now but who cares. if the mods get their heads out of the dark places maybe they will stop this non sense. iwho cares if clark aviation goes down into the hole. the only important thing is that the students can get a refund and get on with their lives. the old board was doing their jobs to make the school run, they started it. but that does not give any1 the right to bad mouth anybody.
MODS what are you guys doing get your acts together.................
MODS what are you guys doing get your acts together.................
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CA and 5J
Skypilot66666, as far as I know there are no indications that CA is being sold to CebuPac nor CebuPac is interested in buying the school. However, having said that, there were rumours that CebuPac is interested in helping to move things right along and quickly for the sake of the cadets and to fill the needs of 5J no matter how much of a "long shot" that is for the moment till these students get actual experience.
Last edited by Eight Ball; 16th May 2008 at 00:16.
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Heres an idea...
for the future....
Send prospects to a legit flight school to get their CPL..ie send them to a flight school in Arizona...there are many out there.
Cost: $50K
...then send them to type rating on the AirBus.. not sure the cost but im guessing its about $15K (based on a friend of mine that went for TR)
Cost: $15K (even less if CIA sim is utilized..i think)
Commercial MEL with a TR on the AirBus.
$65K or P2.7 milion
...right seat on an AirBus...
....Priceless....
a note: i realize the restrictions placed on foreign students training in the U.S. but the schools there still are accommodating foreign students with flight training visas. So this should not have been an issue.
Lets face it...250 hours of flight training to get your FAA MEL and then a TR on the AB sure looks better than 70 hours on a single engine.
Could anyone here elaborate why this was not an option for the students here.? just curious
Send prospects to a legit flight school to get their CPL..ie send them to a flight school in Arizona...there are many out there.
Cost: $50K
...then send them to type rating on the AirBus.. not sure the cost but im guessing its about $15K (based on a friend of mine that went for TR)
Cost: $15K (even less if CIA sim is utilized..i think)
Commercial MEL with a TR on the AirBus.
$65K or P2.7 milion
...right seat on an AirBus...
....Priceless....
a note: i realize the restrictions placed on foreign students training in the U.S. but the schools there still are accommodating foreign students with flight training visas. So this should not have been an issue.
Lets face it...250 hours of flight training to get your FAA MEL and then a TR on the AB sure looks better than 70 hours on a single engine.
Could anyone here elaborate why this was not an option for the students here.? just curious
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Curry Aviation=Clark Aviation
Clark Aviation will be undergoing major overhaul in the coming weeks. It seems that the Indian 5/6ss those that lended money are out in taking over the company. New personalities will be seen on campus mainly foreigners.
Some are on visitor's VISA. what the hell is this FTO coming to? why are they not hiring local people? why keep importing people from abroad when in fact Filipinos can do what they are doing....paging BID and Commisioner Libanan!
shame shame shame.....just look at the other companies inside Clark and you will see that they employ people within the area. That is the rational of setting up a business in an Export Processing Zone......to generate employment not to import foreigners!!!
Some are on visitor's VISA. what the hell is this FTO coming to? why are they not hiring local people? why keep importing people from abroad when in fact Filipinos can do what they are doing....paging BID and Commisioner Libanan!
shame shame shame.....just look at the other companies inside Clark and you will see that they employ people within the area. That is the rational of setting up a business in an Export Processing Zone......to generate employment not to import foreigners!!!
Last edited by puliszaido; 19th May 2008 at 02:44.