INDONESIA Flying
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INDONESIA Flying
Looking at moving to INDONESIA and chasing down employment. Pilot from Australia with way too many single engine hours, CIR (not current) and studying the ATPL subjects.
Has anyone experience flying in INDONESIA or currently flying there? Is being a non national an issue? Are VISA's a problem?
I've been out of aviation for over a year, currently working as a Police Officer and looking at getting back into the saddle. My wife is INDONESIAN and the prospect of living in INDONESIA is not an issue.
Any suggestions... besides don't change jobs...
...?
Has anyone experience flying in INDONESIA or currently flying there? Is being a non national an issue? Are VISA's a problem?
I've been out of aviation for over a year, currently working as a Police Officer and looking at getting back into the saddle. My wife is INDONESIAN and the prospect of living in INDONESIA is not an issue.
Any suggestions... besides don't change jobs...
...?
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AIRJAE your info 100% ture....no jobs for low time expats.....Only DEC are getting contract offers.
Not 100% true. There is at least one company in Medan who hires low time ex-pats – but it is a bit doggy as you are ‘employed’ without a work visa, and they don’t bother with a local license…The funny thing is they have government contracts, so the authorities obviously don’t seem to mind. They pay okay too.
Not 100% true. There is at least one company in Medan who hires low time ex-pats – but it is a bit doggy as you are ‘employed’ without a work visa, and they don’t bother with a local license…The funny thing is they have government contracts, so the authorities obviously don’t seem to mind. They pay okay too.
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Ozplod,
U looking at part 135 ops or 121 ops? Forget 121 ops! But since your wife's Indonesian, you could move here and get a permanent residency (not those temporary or working residency above your working visa type of things) first... then you can start trying your luck.
And don't fall for the guys mentioned by AIRJAE... If you wanna try, apply direct to the airline, mention your wive's Indonesian... the airline can apply for the exemption, not brokers, because your exemption won't be legally covered in contract. But be prepared for the airline to give you some punitive working bonds if you're not type rated, and also for their claimed "bribes" bribes to the officials even if you are type rated... And there are airlines who give you the same bond conditions as non-t/r guys! Rip off!
Best to look for and try pot luck with 135 ops with odd types, coz the locals are all flocking to the big jets.
Springers,
As of the company in Medan? It's probably Susi Air, she runs flights to Aceh and has Aid Contracts, so they're partially exempt! However, low time won't get you that far unfortunately.
Even for a C172, you need a type rating over here ! LOL
PK-KAR
U looking at part 135 ops or 121 ops? Forget 121 ops! But since your wife's Indonesian, you could move here and get a permanent residency (not those temporary or working residency above your working visa type of things) first... then you can start trying your luck.
And don't fall for the guys mentioned by AIRJAE... If you wanna try, apply direct to the airline, mention your wive's Indonesian... the airline can apply for the exemption, not brokers, because your exemption won't be legally covered in contract. But be prepared for the airline to give you some punitive working bonds if you're not type rated, and also for their claimed "bribes" bribes to the officials even if you are type rated... And there are airlines who give you the same bond conditions as non-t/r guys! Rip off!
Best to look for and try pot luck with 135 ops with odd types, coz the locals are all flocking to the big jets.
Springers,
As of the company in Medan? It's probably Susi Air, she runs flights to Aceh and has Aid Contracts, so they're partially exempt! However, low time won't get you that far unfortunately.
Even for a C172, you need a type rating over here ! LOL
PK-KAR
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Initially I was under the impression that Indonesia would have some opportunities because it may not appeal to people to live and work there? Looks like I'm mistaken. I also didn't realise Indonesia shuns expats... or at least the less experienced types.
I won't be in a position to fly till mid 2007 so I have some time to do some research. Don't think things will change much till then?
Might be a case of getting current then spending some months over there knocking on doors and see what happens?
There's also the personal issue I have of leaving secure work and living in uncertainty... again? Ahhh, the joys of being a pilot. I'll be looking at what Oz has to offer as well.
Thanks for the feedback guys, PPRuNe is a great site.
Ozplod.
I won't be in a position to fly till mid 2007 so I have some time to do some research. Don't think things will change much till then?
Might be a case of getting current then spending some months over there knocking on doors and see what happens?
There's also the personal issue I have of leaving secure work and living in uncertainty... again? Ahhh, the joys of being a pilot. I'll be looking at what Oz has to offer as well.
Thanks for the feedback guys, PPRuNe is a great site.
Ozplod.
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Jerry,
Can I ask why exactly you have such a problem with certain indo operators that you have to come out with statements that are not entirely 'correct'!!!!!
I know one or two people in the operator that you are having a go at and not overly impressed, as they are happy with no reason to complain.
Keep up the shoddy work buddy
JL
Can I ask why exactly you have such a problem with certain indo operators that you have to come out with statements that are not entirely 'correct'!!!!!
I know one or two people in the operator that you are having a go at and not overly impressed, as they are happy with no reason to complain.
Keep up the shoddy work buddy
JL
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Hi all,
What about the Indonesian citizens who are trained in Australia? do they need to convert their licences?
I, an Indonesian, am currently undertaking a training in Australia. Could anyone share their experience working in Indonesia? What is the minimum requirement to join the airlines? Would bare CPL meet the criteria?
Is there also maximum age for the airlines? Cause I thought I'm a bit late coz I would be 28 by the time I finish my training.
Thanks fellas for your information. I appreciate it so much.
What about the Indonesian citizens who are trained in Australia? do they need to convert their licences?
I, an Indonesian, am currently undertaking a training in Australia. Could anyone share their experience working in Indonesia? What is the minimum requirement to join the airlines? Would bare CPL meet the criteria?
Is there also maximum age for the airlines? Cause I thought I'm a bit late coz I would be 28 by the time I finish my training.
Thanks fellas for your information. I appreciate it so much.
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Jerry,
Can I ask why exactly you have such a problem with certain indo operators that you have to come out with statements that are not entirely 'correct'!!!!!
Hello, Did I say I had a problem with them? I was merely mentioning how they operate. Other than using the word “funny” I made no moral assertions whatsoever.
I know one or two people in the operator that you are having a go at and not overly impressed, as they are happy with no reason to complain.
Did I mention the company name of the company whom I was referring to? There is more than one company in Medan…but it is interesting that one or two people in a particular company feel their company is being referred to! Hmmm, I wonder why?
they are happy with no reason to complain.
Did I say they have reason to complain? I even mentioned that they are paid okay! Good luck to them, I wish them all the best! My two friends there are happy as well! (It’s a small world! We must know the same people!)
Keep up the shoddy work buddy
So what part of my original statement was inaccurate?
Can I ask why exactly you have such a problem with certain indo operators that you have to come out with statements that are not entirely 'correct'!!!!!
Hello, Did I say I had a problem with them? I was merely mentioning how they operate. Other than using the word “funny” I made no moral assertions whatsoever.
I know one or two people in the operator that you are having a go at and not overly impressed, as they are happy with no reason to complain.
Did I mention the company name of the company whom I was referring to? There is more than one company in Medan…but it is interesting that one or two people in a particular company feel their company is being referred to! Hmmm, I wonder why?
they are happy with no reason to complain.
Did I say they have reason to complain? I even mentioned that they are paid okay! Good luck to them, I wish them all the best! My two friends there are happy as well! (It’s a small world! We must know the same people!)
Keep up the shoddy work buddy
So what part of my original statement was inaccurate?
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Thunder Bird, hope this will help a bit
CPL is OK to apply as FO in an airline in Indonesia, however with ATPL, current type rating (usually B-737E) and some hours are plus.
You will need to convert your CASA CPL into Indonesian CPL, this includes some exams and flight check in single or multi for your IR. The cost is a bit expensive.
Your age is not a problem, but airlines in Indonesia are starting to recruit those with current B-737E rating and some hours.
Airlines in Indonesia are still expanding their operation, so when you're done with your flight training, better hurry to convert your CASA licence into Indonesian licence and start to apply.
All the best !
CPL is OK to apply as FO in an airline in Indonesia, however with ATPL, current type rating (usually B-737E) and some hours are plus.
You will need to convert your CASA CPL into Indonesian CPL, this includes some exams and flight check in single or multi for your IR. The cost is a bit expensive.
Your age is not a problem, but airlines in Indonesia are starting to recruit those with current B-737E rating and some hours.
Airlines in Indonesia are still expanding their operation, so when you're done with your flight training, better hurry to convert your CASA licence into Indonesian licence and start to apply.
All the best !
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Thunder Bird,
It's not like that. Current Indonesian CPL (after being converted from CASA CPL) with IR (CIR) + ME is the minimum requirement if you want to apply as FO in many airlines / operator in Indonesia. However, if you have valid Indonesian ATPL and current A320 or B737E ratings, are plus point.
But obtaining Indonesian ATPL, is a bit tricky. Ground school and exams I bet you'll face no problems. But if you want the ATP licenced, you have to sit for a flight checkride on a plane that weighed more than 5700kgs and the cost is quite ridiculous.
If you really want to fly with Indonesian operator, I suggest to convert your CASA CPL to Indonesian CPL complete with IR+ME, get an employment in Indonesian carrier, gain flight hours, undergo a ground course by your own account for ATPL after you collect more than 1500hrs, then ask / bargain the company to endorse your ATP licenced.
Indonesian ATPL is recognized by the International operator and of course ICAO, so when you hold it (must be with 2000hrs ++), you will have more option whether you want to seek a left seat opportunity in Indonesia or become a wide bodied First Officer in a well-established International carrier.
Hope this will help a bit.
It's not like that. Current Indonesian CPL (after being converted from CASA CPL) with IR (CIR) + ME is the minimum requirement if you want to apply as FO in many airlines / operator in Indonesia. However, if you have valid Indonesian ATPL and current A320 or B737E ratings, are plus point.
But obtaining Indonesian ATPL, is a bit tricky. Ground school and exams I bet you'll face no problems. But if you want the ATP licenced, you have to sit for a flight checkride on a plane that weighed more than 5700kgs and the cost is quite ridiculous.
If you really want to fly with Indonesian operator, I suggest to convert your CASA CPL to Indonesian CPL complete with IR+ME, get an employment in Indonesian carrier, gain flight hours, undergo a ground course by your own account for ATPL after you collect more than 1500hrs, then ask / bargain the company to endorse your ATP licenced.
Indonesian ATPL is recognized by the International operator and of course ICAO, so when you hold it (must be with 2000hrs ++), you will have more option whether you want to seek a left seat opportunity in Indonesia or become a wide bodied First Officer in a well-established International carrier.
Hope this will help a bit.
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T-Bird,
CPL ME + IR is OK, though it'll probably end you up in the 732 or props. ATPL is not a requirement until you're ready for your 3rd set of bar on your shoulders. Most take ATPL after 3 - 4 years as F/O.
CPL without ME+IR will end you up in the props. Most of the applications I hear are CPL ME+IRs.
And yes, you need to get the license ratified/converted... A nice 2 week session in Curug I think...
PK-KAR
CPL ME + IR is OK, though it'll probably end you up in the 732 or props. ATPL is not a requirement until you're ready for your 3rd set of bar on your shoulders. Most take ATPL after 3 - 4 years as F/O.
CPL without ME+IR will end you up in the props. Most of the applications I hear are CPL ME+IRs.
And yes, you need to get the license ratified/converted... A nice 2 week session in Curug I think...
PK-KAR
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Thanks Mounster and PK-KAR, you guys bring me enlightment.
Mounster, you mentioned that the cost of converting licences is ridiculously expensive. Do you have any idea what it costs (to covert CASA CPL ME+IR and to get ATPL)?
And working as a new F/O what would be my expected salary? would it let me save some money when I'm ready for my ATPL?
Thunder Bird
Mounster, you mentioned that the cost of converting licences is ridiculously expensive. Do you have any idea what it costs (to covert CASA CPL ME+IR and to get ATPL)?
And working as a new F/O what would be my expected salary? would it let me save some money when I'm ready for my ATPL?
Thunder Bird
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T-Bird,
The matriculation course have been changed recently, I just made a quick call to some friends and they said it'll be about 1000-2000USD... sorry can't be more precise.
Say if you join one of the 732 ops as a newbie, it'll be 200 - 300USD basic monthly, then the flight pay can jack it up to 400 - 700 depending on the airline. After your second stripe, it'll be 400 - 500USD monthly basic, and and the flight pay will jack it up to 800 - 1200... If you want more or go on the higher end, go for Garuda (733/4/5) or Sriwijaya (732 with rumours inside of the pepetually delayed introduction of the 733). At least those two will give you reasonable or reasonable-ish hours comparing with some others.
What a lot do is get their ATPLs 3 - 5 years within passing probation (getting your second bar).
Above figures not guaranteed to be accurate, I've heard lower, I've heard higher, and various monthly flying hours ranging from 80 to 110.
PK-KAR
The matriculation course have been changed recently, I just made a quick call to some friends and they said it'll be about 1000-2000USD... sorry can't be more precise.
Say if you join one of the 732 ops as a newbie, it'll be 200 - 300USD basic monthly, then the flight pay can jack it up to 400 - 700 depending on the airline. After your second stripe, it'll be 400 - 500USD monthly basic, and and the flight pay will jack it up to 800 - 1200... If you want more or go on the higher end, go for Garuda (733/4/5) or Sriwijaya (732 with rumours inside of the pepetually delayed introduction of the 733). At least those two will give you reasonable or reasonable-ish hours comparing with some others.
What a lot do is get their ATPLs 3 - 5 years within passing probation (getting your second bar).
Above figures not guaranteed to be accurate, I've heard lower, I've heard higher, and various monthly flying hours ranging from 80 to 110.
PK-KAR
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PK-KAR thanks again for being really helpful,
I just read a news saying that our Minister of Transport stated that our national carriers need 130 pilots a year due to growing airlines. But so far, I haven't met any Indonesian student pilots, I have been a single fighter in my school and even in my Uni doing the Aviation course. So how could this demand met?
My further question is, how does the bars/rank of the pilot work out? How is it related to the flying hours/experience?
Hm, it seems that it's more worth it if I finish my CPL in Australia and then get my ME+IR in Indonesia, that way I could probably save up some costs. Do you know what school provides such training, how long does it take to get ME+IR in Indo and how much it costs?
I'm just trying to make a comparison because ME+IR in Oz would cost about AUD 10,000ish in 4 weeks.
I just couldn't believe it that pilots in Indo get such low pay. Even with my part time job I earn more than them....but in terms of building hours and getting my ATPL, that's not too bad. So I count it as a long term investment.
T-Bird
I just read a news saying that our Minister of Transport stated that our national carriers need 130 pilots a year due to growing airlines. But so far, I haven't met any Indonesian student pilots, I have been a single fighter in my school and even in my Uni doing the Aviation course. So how could this demand met?
My further question is, how does the bars/rank of the pilot work out? How is it related to the flying hours/experience?
Hm, it seems that it's more worth it if I finish my CPL in Australia and then get my ME+IR in Indonesia, that way I could probably save up some costs. Do you know what school provides such training, how long does it take to get ME+IR in Indo and how much it costs?
I'm just trying to make a comparison because ME+IR in Oz would cost about AUD 10,000ish in 4 weeks.
I just couldn't believe it that pilots in Indo get such low pay. Even with my part time job I earn more than them....but in terms of building hours and getting my ATPL, that's not too bad. So I count it as a long term investment.
T-Bird
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T-Bird,
I've been told it's better to get your ME+IR before you come in. It'll cost you more than AUD10k over here, with Deraya (I think it's the only one that does ME+IR apart from Curug).
As to the pay, the rates have gone haywire, some are double that amount I stated. It all depends on when and how you got the deal. But when looking at it, your living standards will be comparable to the average line pilot anywhere... Just on a lower cost living basis.
bars and ranks? Hours/Experience and endorsements (ATPL)...
One "good" thing is, you can go to a command rating quickly (except Garuda).
It really does depend on what you want and your plans...
PK-KAR
I've been told it's better to get your ME+IR before you come in. It'll cost you more than AUD10k over here, with Deraya (I think it's the only one that does ME+IR apart from Curug).
As to the pay, the rates have gone haywire, some are double that amount I stated. It all depends on when and how you got the deal. But when looking at it, your living standards will be comparable to the average line pilot anywhere... Just on a lower cost living basis.
bars and ranks? Hours/Experience and endorsements (ATPL)...
One "good" thing is, you can go to a command rating quickly (except Garuda).
It really does depend on what you want and your plans...
PK-KAR
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PK-KAR,
Do you have any idea how many new pilots get absorbed by airlines currently?
And how long does the contract last for usually? I read that there are some "evil" operators around. Who should be avoided?
My plan is to get hours up and then work overseas, in Australia ideally within 5 years coz I am a resident here.
T-Bird
Do you have any idea how many new pilots get absorbed by airlines currently?
And how long does the contract last for usually? I read that there are some "evil" operators around. Who should be avoided?
My plan is to get hours up and then work overseas, in Australia ideally within 5 years coz I am a resident here.
T-Bird
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Halim based F100 Operators?
Pelita (pilot surplus???)
Transwisata
Pos Prima Express
Who else?
Which evil operators to avoid? PM me.
In 5 years you'd have about errr... 4000 hrs or so? Depending on aircraft type and contract bonds... Maybe 6 years would be a safer bet to be honest... but better ask others too when you're here.
PK-KAR
Pelita (pilot surplus???)
Transwisata
Pos Prima Express
Who else?
Which evil operators to avoid? PM me.
In 5 years you'd have about errr... 4000 hrs or so? Depending on aircraft type and contract bonds... Maybe 6 years would be a safer bet to be honest... but better ask others too when you're here.
PK-KAR