China Airlines Interview
Guest
Posts: n/a
Hey folks...I am here to defend 29Chev.
I am sorry to say...he is right. You folks talking from your comfy jobs over in the UK don't know what the hell your talking about. It goes without saying that you don't want to bite the hand that feeds you, but you are a professional and you expected to be treated like one right? The bottom line is that CAL goes through expats like a revolving door like no other airline in the world? You have to ask yourself why? CAL COULD be the best job in the world, but the plain fact is that its not. There are companies that are good, some that are mediocre, and some that are just plain %*^*^. Cal is the last. 29 is just trying to help any prospectives, and I will to if req's.
If you are experience building...and you want the type rating, just keep in mind that the new training bond is for 3 years with a blanket contract of 5 years and the bond money is paid by you up front. If you have no job, or want the type rating and can part with the cash and can stay for 3 years, DO IT! But if you have ANY other option...you should go that route. 29chev is just trying to help the prospectives that are considering going to CAL....so cut him a break eh?
If anyone is truely interested in what the facts are I will state them...otherwise I will not waste my time... because people will always disbelieve the facts, or minimize it to just complaining!
The reason I worked there was because of the commuting contract....looked good, but I heard from a friend they recently are changing the terms of that. I think the commuting remains..but now all pilots will commute in Economy. Not the end of the world, but pretty tough sitting in a tiny seat in economy every month commuting to work. Pretty hard to get proper rest for your first duty. This is a sign folks...it costs the company nothing to seat a pilot in business if it is empy, in fact you will still get the crew meal and not the business meal, but they won't do even this anymore! Think about this policy change and think how it relates to the companies feeling about the crew! You can draw your own conclusions. Have fun being away from your families for 3.5 weeks a month! And being dead tired the rest of the time! BTW that 95 hours of flying is done during the 3.5 weeks and it is air time only....
I am sorry to say...he is right. You folks talking from your comfy jobs over in the UK don't know what the hell your talking about. It goes without saying that you don't want to bite the hand that feeds you, but you are a professional and you expected to be treated like one right? The bottom line is that CAL goes through expats like a revolving door like no other airline in the world? You have to ask yourself why? CAL COULD be the best job in the world, but the plain fact is that its not. There are companies that are good, some that are mediocre, and some that are just plain %*^*^. Cal is the last. 29 is just trying to help any prospectives, and I will to if req's.
If you are experience building...and you want the type rating, just keep in mind that the new training bond is for 3 years with a blanket contract of 5 years and the bond money is paid by you up front. If you have no job, or want the type rating and can part with the cash and can stay for 3 years, DO IT! But if you have ANY other option...you should go that route. 29chev is just trying to help the prospectives that are considering going to CAL....so cut him a break eh?
If anyone is truely interested in what the facts are I will state them...otherwise I will not waste my time... because people will always disbelieve the facts, or minimize it to just complaining!
The reason I worked there was because of the commuting contract....looked good, but I heard from a friend they recently are changing the terms of that. I think the commuting remains..but now all pilots will commute in Economy. Not the end of the world, but pretty tough sitting in a tiny seat in economy every month commuting to work. Pretty hard to get proper rest for your first duty. This is a sign folks...it costs the company nothing to seat a pilot in business if it is empy, in fact you will still get the crew meal and not the business meal, but they won't do even this anymore! Think about this policy change and think how it relates to the companies feeling about the crew! You can draw your own conclusions. Have fun being away from your families for 3.5 weeks a month! And being dead tired the rest of the time! BTW that 95 hours of flying is done during the 3.5 weeks and it is air time only....
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Asia
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You have to understand the "unspoken" policy of this airline.If anything is a benefit for You,CAL considers that it is taken away for the company.Thats the local culture,that will never change here.
On the other hand,the "old times" are ahead again as the local "top guns" are back to the management of Flight Ops and Trainig Dept.Simulator check failures for expats are back now,even if You are called for a SIM support,You will be briefed for 50 mins about your mistakes,the local chekee for 10 mins.They have started to play this game even with the more senior expat cpts now.
As a foreign F/O,forget to have PF sectors,just expect the minimum per month,the rate is about 4:1 or 5:1.So far ,I couldnt figure out,if this is a loss of face here if not the local cpt is the PF,but just check the Aircraft Logbook and see the rate of PF sectors between local F/O-local cpt and local cpt/expat F/O.You will be here as a service-boy."Spying" is well established in this culture,if You are reported for anything,You will know it only when they invite you to the Fleet Office,the procedure to notice You,that they will report You is quite unknown.
CAL tactics is/was to look for bankrupt airlines or laid off pilots to catch the guys,just see the case of Ansett,Air Canada,Jetsgo and now the Swiss.Just to ask silently;where are the australians now?the canadians?Most of them left after a year to a low-cost carrier.
Another issue;as CAL aircrew,just check how many days off (Home Leave included) are provided to the expats and how many for the locals,You will be surprised like I was!And they spend all of them with their families at their own home.
So,yes have fun,just pay your own money to come here to be a second class employee,a guard angel for the local incompetent top guns for three years or leave earlier to make richer this corrupt management.
Since january,roughly 50-60 expats left from the B744.
I guess the upgrade policy is quite clear for anyone.Just one word:NEVER.
My countdown is on the way.
On the other hand,the "old times" are ahead again as the local "top guns" are back to the management of Flight Ops and Trainig Dept.Simulator check failures for expats are back now,even if You are called for a SIM support,You will be briefed for 50 mins about your mistakes,the local chekee for 10 mins.They have started to play this game even with the more senior expat cpts now.
As a foreign F/O,forget to have PF sectors,just expect the minimum per month,the rate is about 4:1 or 5:1.So far ,I couldnt figure out,if this is a loss of face here if not the local cpt is the PF,but just check the Aircraft Logbook and see the rate of PF sectors between local F/O-local cpt and local cpt/expat F/O.You will be here as a service-boy."Spying" is well established in this culture,if You are reported for anything,You will know it only when they invite you to the Fleet Office,the procedure to notice You,that they will report You is quite unknown.
CAL tactics is/was to look for bankrupt airlines or laid off pilots to catch the guys,just see the case of Ansett,Air Canada,Jetsgo and now the Swiss.Just to ask silently;where are the australians now?the canadians?Most of them left after a year to a low-cost carrier.
Another issue;as CAL aircrew,just check how many days off (Home Leave included) are provided to the expats and how many for the locals,You will be surprised like I was!And they spend all of them with their families at their own home.
So,yes have fun,just pay your own money to come here to be a second class employee,a guard angel for the local incompetent top guns for three years or leave earlier to make richer this corrupt management.
Since january,roughly 50-60 expats left from the B744.
I guess the upgrade policy is quite clear for anyone.Just one word:NEVER.
My countdown is on the way.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: usa
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Blame yourself, Mr. 744driver!!!
Originally Posted by 744driver
Totally agree with chev29. I am also an Expat FO at CAL and its miserable. guys you don’t want to join CAL unless you have absolutely nothing else. The bottom line is they will never upgrade you and you don’t want to be living in Taipei, it’s a dump. You are not welcome. So why spend years accumulating seniority somewhere where its useless leave as fast as possible or don’t join!! 
I just want to defend Taiwan from a guy like this one, that's all.
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Asia
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Some people (like this 744driver guy) always think that somebody always owes something to you.
-I guess a management of a national flagcarrier owes just their given word,nothing else.
Maybe, this 744driver guy was smiling at the interviewers during his interview, and he promised he would work hard and try to understand the Taiwanese cultures etc... (Otherwise, he didn't get the job)
-For sure,the interviewers were smiling at the interview,and they promised CAL as a career path,saying no double standard in the upgrade and SIM and line evaluation between locals and expats etc....(Otherwise they didnt get any pilots)
And... look, how weak his promise is and how weak he himself is.
-Are we talking about the same people?
Maybe you have absolutely O (zero) friends in Taiwan (not to mention female friends...), therefore your life in Taipei must be just MISERABLE.
-In my case I have much more female friends than male in Taipei...
I just want to say... please just quit and leave Taiwan and go home and work at McDonalds in your home country.
-In my country,but even on the continent I came from,it is a serious crime to differentiate the employees by race,religion,language or the color of the skin and definately can not find "Mc Donalds level" captains at a national flag-carrier.
I just want to defend Taiwan from a guy like this one, that's all.
-It is not Taiwan we feel our life bad here,but it is CAL,the broken promises of the management,the double standard company policy.(My last recurrent SIM was a joke,details above)Taipei is very crowded,polluted,however there is life outside of Taipei in Taiwan,a better and cheaper life.(But dont live in Nankan).The people are polite,helpfull and friendly in the civil life,so life is quite OK outside of CAL.
What I cant belive,that none of the management ever declared to the locals,that expats will not ever get or get as less as possible upgrade,when the first expats arrived here.For sure,they keep this promise at least.
-I guess a management of a national flagcarrier owes just their given word,nothing else.
Maybe, this 744driver guy was smiling at the interviewers during his interview, and he promised he would work hard and try to understand the Taiwanese cultures etc... (Otherwise, he didn't get the job)
-For sure,the interviewers were smiling at the interview,and they promised CAL as a career path,saying no double standard in the upgrade and SIM and line evaluation between locals and expats etc....(Otherwise they didnt get any pilots)
And... look, how weak his promise is and how weak he himself is.
-Are we talking about the same people?
Maybe you have absolutely O (zero) friends in Taiwan (not to mention female friends...), therefore your life in Taipei must be just MISERABLE.
-In my case I have much more female friends than male in Taipei...
I just want to say... please just quit and leave Taiwan and go home and work at McDonalds in your home country.
-In my country,but even on the continent I came from,it is a serious crime to differentiate the employees by race,religion,language or the color of the skin and definately can not find "Mc Donalds level" captains at a national flag-carrier.
I just want to defend Taiwan from a guy like this one, that's all.
-It is not Taiwan we feel our life bad here,but it is CAL,the broken promises of the management,the double standard company policy.(My last recurrent SIM was a joke,details above)Taipei is very crowded,polluted,however there is life outside of Taipei in Taiwan,a better and cheaper life.(But dont live in Nankan).The people are polite,helpfull and friendly in the civil life,so life is quite OK outside of CAL.
What I cant belive,that none of the management ever declared to the locals,that expats will not ever get or get as less as possible upgrade,when the first expats arrived here.For sure,they keep this promise at least.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: usa
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well... my point is...
I used to work for an airline that starts with the ltter "A", and it was one of the biggest airlines in the world. For the last so many years, tens of promises have been broken by the management and our contract was always (mis)understood by their lawyers' special interpretation. So, it is not just with CAL or EVA, but EVERYWHERE on the earth it is the same. Companies must make money and make their shareholders happy, and we, the employees, are the least priority for them. I am not defending them at all. If you want to fly for an airline (or any jobs) without being lied to by your management, then you will need to look for a job for the rest of your life and you will never find one!!! Some companies just don't openly lie, but they hide truth from employees. You read newspaper? Ii is happening everywhere everyday.
You guys can bitch about the company or your life "after" you go back home with "your wife" or whomever, but if you do that while you are still working, you will only make other co-wokers feel miserable and unhappy. I am only requesting you guys not to do THAT. I hear just way too much bitching and crying while at work, and no one has any rights to make other people feel down. As I said earlier, if you don't like where you are now at CAL (regardless your management lies to you or not), just shut your mouth up and go back to your home country... Please... I am begging to you!!!!
I used to work for an airline that starts with the ltter "A", and it was one of the biggest airlines in the world. For the last so many years, tens of promises have been broken by the management and our contract was always (mis)understood by their lawyers' special interpretation. So, it is not just with CAL or EVA, but EVERYWHERE on the earth it is the same. Companies must make money and make their shareholders happy, and we, the employees, are the least priority for them. I am not defending them at all. If you want to fly for an airline (or any jobs) without being lied to by your management, then you will need to look for a job for the rest of your life and you will never find one!!! Some companies just don't openly lie, but they hide truth from employees. You read newspaper? Ii is happening everywhere everyday.
You guys can bitch about the company or your life "after" you go back home with "your wife" or whomever, but if you do that while you are still working, you will only make other co-wokers feel miserable and unhappy. I am only requesting you guys not to do THAT. I hear just way too much bitching and crying while at work, and no one has any rights to make other people feel down. As I said earlier, if you don't like where you are now at CAL (regardless your management lies to you or not), just shut your mouth up and go back to your home country... Please... I am begging to you!!!!
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Asia
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Did You get the main point of my last post?It was definately not about the money.It is about the treatment and the double standard policy within the airline,that dont cost a penny to the shareholders.
If CAL is serious about the so called cost-control,well they should think about the way to reduce number of pilots leaving so the cost of training will also drop.
And without an advise,people are doing exactly the same You say,after an average time of 2 years most of them leave..........some even earlier.
If CAL is serious about the so called cost-control,well they should think about the way to reduce number of pilots leaving so the cost of training will also drop.
And without an advise,people are doing exactly the same You say,after an average time of 2 years most of them leave..........some even earlier.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: usa
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I did get your point, brother.
A double standard. I know. So what? That's their system. You (we) are living in their system. You (we) are working in their system. Don't fight againt the system. The best wisdom in life is to live with the system. Don't try to change the system to fit your life, but change your life to fit the system. The sooner you learn this wisdom the better the rest of your life will be.
And... don't blame them, ok, brother! If you are in their shoes, you would do exactly the same thing. I don't know where you are from, but let's say you are from Brazil. You are in charge of the company. You have your own people working for you, who speak the same language, share the same culture, and share the same color of skin. They will have their family in Brazil. They will build up your company bigger and better. And, they will fight for the country until death. At the same time, you also have expatriates, who don't even try to learn your language or culture. They don't try to make the company a better place, but just complain all day. And, you know, as soon as they build up some good experiences, they will leave your country without saying "bye bye" for you, or without cleaning up the mess they make. Would you still treat them the same way as your own boys? I bet you won't.
Let me tell you... For the next five years (minimum), you work as hard as you start bleeding your ass, without saying a word of complain. You learn Chinese and you learn the Taiwanese cultures. If, after that long and hard work, they still treat you unfairly, then you can start complaining... not to your fellow co-workers, but to your boss. Can you do that? If you leave the company within less than two years or so, just because no one cares about your big "dream" or no one treats you right, I bet for the rest of your life you will always be doing the same. "Bitching about your life"
Good luck, brother.
A double standard. I know. So what? That's their system. You (we) are living in their system. You (we) are working in their system. Don't fight againt the system. The best wisdom in life is to live with the system. Don't try to change the system to fit your life, but change your life to fit the system. The sooner you learn this wisdom the better the rest of your life will be.
And... don't blame them, ok, brother! If you are in their shoes, you would do exactly the same thing. I don't know where you are from, but let's say you are from Brazil. You are in charge of the company. You have your own people working for you, who speak the same language, share the same culture, and share the same color of skin. They will have their family in Brazil. They will build up your company bigger and better. And, they will fight for the country until death. At the same time, you also have expatriates, who don't even try to learn your language or culture. They don't try to make the company a better place, but just complain all day. And, you know, as soon as they build up some good experiences, they will leave your country without saying "bye bye" for you, or without cleaning up the mess they make. Would you still treat them the same way as your own boys? I bet you won't.
Let me tell you... For the next five years (minimum), you work as hard as you start bleeding your ass, without saying a word of complain. You learn Chinese and you learn the Taiwanese cultures. If, after that long and hard work, they still treat you unfairly, then you can start complaining... not to your fellow co-workers, but to your boss. Can you do that? If you leave the company within less than two years or so, just because no one cares about your big "dream" or no one treats you right, I bet for the rest of your life you will always be doing the same. "Bitching about your life"
Good luck, brother.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: expat@large
Age: 55
Posts: 137
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Utter Rubbish
You (we) are working in their system. Don't fight againt the system. The best wisdom in life is to live with the system. Don't try to change the system to fit your life, but change your life to fit the system. The sooner you learn this wisdom the better the rest of your life will be.
For all you expats anywhere in the world, TAKE HEED. This is the prevailing view of the employee in China. You owe the company a debt of gratitude because they pay you a wage. Your skills are not seen as necessarily valuable and your qualifications aren't unique. Morale within the pilot body, fairness when promotion time comes around etc. etc. ad naeseum. are viewed as irrelevant concerns of a bitching worker.
They don't try to make the company a better place, but just complain all day. And, you know, as soon as they build up some good experiences, they will leave your country without saying "bye bye" for you, or without cleaning up the mess they make. Would you still treat them the same way as your own boys? I bet you won't
You may have a point TP. But the difference is if you come to our house you will be treated as an equal because the interview process has filtered you out of the masses and you're now part of the team. There will be no hidden seniority numbers, no "get the expat" in the Sim culture etc etc.
Oh yeah, want to go home on your days off?? Empty business class seats?? Stiff SH1t! You'll be sitting in economy.
If the attitude of TP was the prevalent one internationally, there would be a global pilot civil-war. TP's grovelling stance would undermine all the terms and conditions we've fought for, and I believe deserve, over the years.
Going to work in Taiwan?? Think long and hard. Look at www.nankantraz.org and see what's going on at Eva Air.
There are no unions on the ROC either, so there's no collective bargaining or any sort of recourse. If you have a grievance, keep ya trap shut or your next sim will be a fail. The only reason expats are still on the ROC is because:
1) Insurance Companies demand the experience level of an expatriate workforce.
2) Taiwanese carriers need them to baby-sit the (sadly) cronically low-time captains within their fleets
3)Some of us are so desperate for heavy-jet time we'll go anywhere.
Coat/Door
Last edited by Crossbleed; 14th Jun 2006 at 01:03.
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Asia
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
TP,
As You can see in my post above,I am coming from a continent where the discrimination between employees by origin,race,religion or colour of skin is a serious crime.And I thought thats right when I arrived to CAL.After some years at CAL and on the way to leave,now I have revised my idea about it,and totaly agree with your post,and wish to have that the principles of employement in my Home Country would be based upon your post.
If I am going to start to spread the basics of your post at home,will I be the intolerant,racist bad boy in my Home Country?
I guess if these people or their relatives would experience the same treatment or principles in my country they would cry out on a loudest way.
You and CAL have teached me for the following;double standard?so what? ,change your life to fit the system,don't blame them, ok, brother! If you are in their shoes, you would do exactly the same thing.,For the next five years (minimum), you work as hard as you start bleeding your ass, without saying a word of complain.,If, after that long and hard work, they still treat you unfairly, then you can start complaining
So,thrust me,a very short time and I will be at home and will spread,that this should be the attitude towards the non-local employees.
As You can see in my post above,I am coming from a continent where the discrimination between employees by origin,race,religion or colour of skin is a serious crime.And I thought thats right when I arrived to CAL.After some years at CAL and on the way to leave,now I have revised my idea about it,and totaly agree with your post,and wish to have that the principles of employement in my Home Country would be based upon your post.
If I am going to start to spread the basics of your post at home,will I be the intolerant,racist bad boy in my Home Country?
I guess if these people or their relatives would experience the same treatment or principles in my country they would cry out on a loudest way.
You and CAL have teached me for the following;double standard?so what? ,change your life to fit the system,don't blame them, ok, brother! If you are in their shoes, you would do exactly the same thing.,For the next five years (minimum), you work as hard as you start bleeding your ass, without saying a word of complain.,If, after that long and hard work, they still treat you unfairly, then you can start complaining
So,thrust me,a very short time and I will be at home and will spread,that this should be the attitude towards the non-local employees.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: usa
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I know your pains and anger, believe me.
The country where I am from (USA), if you differentiate people by anything, then, you get fired. It is a very fair country (in terms of employment). But, how long would I have to wait just to be a reserve FO on a big jet? 20 years at least... If I am lucky and they start hiring pilots soon again.
If you go to Japan, you are a contract based-pilot. No matter how good you are, as soon as they get enough home grown pilots, then, you are not needed anymore. They won't renew your contract.
With CAL, you don't have to wait 20 years to fly a jumbo-jet or you won't have to renew your contract. Of course, things are NOT perfect here at all. But, I got to stay here for some reason (because of a girl...), so, as long as I stay here I want to be positive and happy and enjoy my job. And, it IS possible to enjoy my job, if someone doesn't start bitching about his life very loud in our crew room.
That's it. Good luck after you go back home, brother!
The country where I am from (USA), if you differentiate people by anything, then, you get fired. It is a very fair country (in terms of employment). But, how long would I have to wait just to be a reserve FO on a big jet? 20 years at least... If I am lucky and they start hiring pilots soon again.
If you go to Japan, you are a contract based-pilot. No matter how good you are, as soon as they get enough home grown pilots, then, you are not needed anymore. They won't renew your contract.
With CAL, you don't have to wait 20 years to fly a jumbo-jet or you won't have to renew your contract. Of course, things are NOT perfect here at all. But, I got to stay here for some reason (because of a girl...), so, as long as I stay here I want to be positive and happy and enjoy my job. And, it IS possible to enjoy my job, if someone doesn't start bitching about his life very loud in our crew room.
That's it. Good luck after you go back home, brother!
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Asia
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That was the main reason to come here,the big jet.But right now,I will be very satisfied with the A320 at home.
Ahhhh....the famous crew room in Taipei,life is much better outside of the the capital.
Ahhhh....the famous crew room in Taipei,life is much better outside of the the capital.
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Asia
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
An aircraft doesnt woth to sacrifice my only life,just to support their unfair system.Not to mention the drop of the USD these days and in the future,that means this is the same money on a narrow-body at home and not at a flag-carrier.
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: far far away
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
taiwanparadise
Come come now you don't expect us to believe you were born in the USA do you....with your English skills (don't get me wrong I can't type in Mandarin) but where are you from Originally...my best guess is your "like" one the 100 Taiwanes pilots who live in Vancouver, or at least their familys do, but won't shut up about how good TPE is..... if its so good why did you send your family to Canada or USA.....? If you came to Canada and got a job with West Jet or Air Canada you would be treated exactly like every other pilot no special tretment for anyone....can CAL say that???? NO they can't that is what we complain about...if they had said to me at the interview "come work for us but we will treat you as a secound class person with different rules for you than the local pilots" I would have said fine or F--K off but at least it would have been the truth, but what they did do was blow smoke up my ass about how good I would be treated and when I would make Capt. which was all a load of crap.
TELL me I'm wrong go ahead!!!
Come come now you don't expect us to believe you were born in the USA do you....with your English skills (don't get me wrong I can't type in Mandarin) but where are you from Originally...my best guess is your "like" one the 100 Taiwanes pilots who live in Vancouver, or at least their familys do, but won't shut up about how good TPE is..... if its so good why did you send your family to Canada or USA.....? If you came to Canada and got a job with West Jet or Air Canada you would be treated exactly like every other pilot no special tretment for anyone....can CAL say that???? NO they can't that is what we complain about...if they had said to me at the interview "come work for us but we will treat you as a secound class person with different rules for you than the local pilots" I would have said fine or F--K off but at least it would have been the truth, but what they did do was blow smoke up my ass about how good I would be treated and when I would make Capt. which was all a load of crap.
TELL me I'm wrong go ahead!!!
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Aus
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey 29chev.....
How long have you been at CAL?.......at most airlines...eg. Qantas it takes about 13 years for a command......virgin blue about 8 years....Cathay about 10 years......if you've been at CAL for that long I can understand you fustration....but if you've only been there for a few years then I think you're asking a bit much.
BTW...before you criticize others about their english skills.....you should look at your own!!....."...when I would make captain".....
How long have you been at CAL?.......at most airlines...eg. Qantas it takes about 13 years for a command......virgin blue about 8 years....Cathay about 10 years......if you've been at CAL for that long I can understand you fustration....but if you've only been there for a few years then I think you're asking a bit much.
BTW...before you criticize others about their english skills.....you should look at your own!!....."...when I would make captain".....
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Asia
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is a huge point on 29chevs side.Lets suppose this thing;
Fact,a lot of CAL pilots with taiwanese origin live with their family in Vancouver.Lets suppose their wifes apply for a job in Canada.They go for the interview,and successfully pass it.Got the job,lets say the employer is owned by the Canadian Government.
And then they get the same treatment from this state owned company that the expatriate pilots at CAL,misleaded at the interview,promotion is restricted,double standard at the annual evaluation,broken contracts,ever changing terms and conditions....etc.
On the top of that,they could hear from the local employees that if You dont like it,the door is open.
My very silent questions are:how long could this company stay in business,how fast would this govenment be on power,and would the same people cry it loud or would they accept their situation without a word?
Here at CAL we dont/didnt expect a fast command just a fair treatment and the lack of double standard system.
Fact,a lot of CAL pilots with taiwanese origin live with their family in Vancouver.Lets suppose their wifes apply for a job in Canada.They go for the interview,and successfully pass it.Got the job,lets say the employer is owned by the Canadian Government.
And then they get the same treatment from this state owned company that the expatriate pilots at CAL,misleaded at the interview,promotion is restricted,double standard at the annual evaluation,broken contracts,ever changing terms and conditions....etc.
On the top of that,they could hear from the local employees that if You dont like it,the door is open.
My very silent questions are:how long could this company stay in business,how fast would this govenment be on power,and would the same people cry it loud or would they accept their situation without a word?
Here at CAL we dont/didnt expect a fast command just a fair treatment and the lack of double standard system.
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: far far away
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Monk
I wasn't expecting the command I was told I would get it ....they did not tell me the truth....that is my complaint!!! And as you asked I was with CAL for 18 months + or - a few days before I quit....... ....sorry about my slang on an international forum "making captain" is how we would put it where I'm from,.... your correct it is not proper English....I really don't give a hoot about his English ...I'm more concerned about who he is trying to pretend to be...if he really is from the USA "My Bad" but my point still stands CAL treats their expats poorly and they get what they deserve .
29
I wasn't expecting the command I was told I would get it ....they did not tell me the truth....that is my complaint!!! And as you asked I was with CAL for 18 months + or - a few days before I quit....... ....sorry about my slang on an international forum "making captain" is how we would put it where I'm from,.... your correct it is not proper English....I really don't give a hoot about his English ...I'm more concerned about who he is trying to pretend to be...if he really is from the USA "My Bad" but my point still stands CAL treats their expats poorly and they get what they deserve .
29
Last edited by 29chev; 16th Jun 2006 at 04:59.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Aus
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
29Chev
I can understand your fustration....broken promises....sorry that you have to go through it......but seriously....a command after 18 months is a bit unrealistic.....do CAL have a seniority system?.....did you ask them about promotion policy?....
I think things will change in the near future as the asian demand for pilots continue to grow.....should stick at it for a while and see what happens....but think of it in a positive way....you got some wide body jet experience......cultural experience.......good or bad...it makes you a better person.......
I can understand your fustration....broken promises....sorry that you have to go through it......but seriously....a command after 18 months is a bit unrealistic.....do CAL have a seniority system?.....did you ask them about promotion policy?....
I think things will change in the near future as the asian demand for pilots continue to grow.....should stick at it for a while and see what happens....but think of it in a positive way....you got some wide body jet experience......cultural experience.......good or bad...it makes you a better person.......
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: usa
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by 29chev
taiwanparadise
Come come now you don't expect us to believe you were born in the USA do you....with your English skills (don't get me wrong I can't type in Mandarin) but where are you from Originally...my best guess is your "like" one the 100 Taiwanes pilots who live in Vancouver, or at least their familys do, but won't shut up about how good TPE is..... if its so good why did you send your family to Canada or USA.....? If you came to Canada and got a job with West Jet or Air Canada you would be treated exactly like every other pilot no special tretment for anyone....can CAL say that???? NO they can't that is what we complain about...if they had said to me at the interview "come work for us but we will treat you as a secound class person with different rules for you than the local pilots" I would have said fine or F--K off but at least it would have been the truth, but what they did do was blow smoke up my ass about how good I would be treated and when I would make Capt. which was all a load of crap.
TELL me I'm wrong go ahead!!!
Come come now you don't expect us to believe you were born in the USA do you....with your English skills (don't get me wrong I can't type in Mandarin) but where are you from Originally...my best guess is your "like" one the 100 Taiwanes pilots who live in Vancouver, or at least their familys do, but won't shut up about how good TPE is..... if its so good why did you send your family to Canada or USA.....? If you came to Canada and got a job with West Jet or Air Canada you would be treated exactly like every other pilot no special tretment for anyone....can CAL say that???? NO they can't that is what we complain about...if they had said to me at the interview "come work for us but we will treat you as a secound class person with different rules for you than the local pilots" I would have said fine or F--K off but at least it would have been the truth, but what they did do was blow smoke up my ass about how good I would be treated and when I would make Capt. which was all a load of crap.
TELL me I'm wrong go ahead!!!
Anyway, sir, your point is completely wrong, and let me pin-point your wrong points of view, just in case you are not so clever that you understand your mistakes yourself. I am just trying to help you, OK.
Firstly, if foreign pilots get hired by West Jet or Air Canada, they speak English, one of Canada's official languages, and most likely, they have commitment to the Canadian society, because they are most likely Canadian citizens. (Last time when I checked, the Canadian government or Canadian airlines didn't have generosity to hire foreign nationals without Canadian citizenship... Wow!!! CAL is so generous in that matter, huh) That's why there are no reasons or on benefits for the employers to give a double standard for anybody.
On the other hand, you in Taiwan... with CAL... How many Chinese or Taiwanese words did you pick up? Can you even tell the difference between the two languages? Did you study history or politics of Taiwan? And... when was the last time you saw the local Taiwanese people WITHOUT any intimidation or discrimination in your mind. I bet you a million dollars that every single time when you see the locals, you tell yourself that you are better than those yellow people, because you are from the great country of Canada... Am I not right? You are so mad not just because you are treated wrong, but also because you are treated wrong by the yellow people who you consider inferior to you... Am I not right?
You don't try to give commitment or you NEVER tried to give commitment since "the day one." You are always constantly looking for reasons to justify your bad attitude. You are always looking for excuses why you were not accepted in the Canadian society (Or, in the Taiwan society either) You are so sad because you have failed in Canada AND in Taiwan. The management people can see through easily a weak guy like you, a tricky guy like you, a loser like you. That's why they never treat you right. But, you are lucky, man, because if I am your boss, I would make you a cabin attendant, hahaha!
Secondly, don't talk like you know about West Jet or Air Canada. You have never been with them, am I right? See... you are talking like you know about something that you really don't know. You are just guessing. Now, you are not just a loser, but you are a liar. Now, all of sudden, what you are complaining about CAL has come to sound like little truth and loads of lies.
Third, if you have so many complains, I bet you have gone to talk with youe boss (bosses) face to face, like a real man. Or... have you??? Don't tell me you haven't. You sound like a tough guy on this website or in the crew room, but you can never talk with your boss face to face. If you are really concerned with CAL's situation or fellow expat pilots, you should have done that. But, I know, you just care about yourself. Typical. That's why you complain non-stop, but never do anything, because you got no balls. Now, you are not just a loser, or a liar, but you are also a coward.
Now, I can picture very very crisply what type of man you are. I have seen hundreds of guys like you in my life. But... be careful. By the age 50, a guy like you would become completely and absolutely miserable. No wife, no friends, or no real job. Just... the Canada's ice-cold winds will be blowing right through your lonely heart...
Oh... by the way, I am not a Taiwanese. I am from Japan. And... thank you very much for criticizing on my English. Without being criticized, I would never learn. I still make lots of mistakes, because English is my 4th language to learn. You know those Asian people who you love so much do speak two or three or more languages... And... you? I bet your French is fluent, because it is one of your country's official languages, right. If you like, write me in French or maybe in Japanese... oh, don't tell me you can't, because I don't want to call you a loser/liar/coward and stupid.
You know the history??? Japan invaded Taiwan years ago? That's why sometimes, I am treated by the locals much worse than you could imagine. Not even in the company but outside of the company also. But... I don't complain. You know why? Because "I" made this decision. No one has ever forced me and no one is forcing me to be where I am right now. When a Japanese man makes a decision, then he is responsible for that decision, he gives commitment, and he complains only to himself alone, or directly to his boss. That's the way of Samurai. I used to believe that Canadian men are much tougher than a guy like you... but I guess I was wrong.
Get packed and leave. Your sweet mom at home will take care of you on your bed!!!
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Asia
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey,there is no use to eat each other.Thats what this management prefer very much,when the pilots are killing each other....locals vs locals,expat vs locals.
And I guess the bigest lie was interview here.The interview held by the mangement of the taiwanese flag-carrier.The fact is,the only way CAL gets pilots if they lie to them.This their real recruitment policy.My intention was to come here and fly for them until retirement,now I am only counting the days left here.My intention was even to pick up some mandarin.Why the hell they cant have a system like at CX?This airline could be as successful and as good to work for as CX,they have all the potential for that,specially now,that they are opening the airlinks to the mainland China,but the system and the representatives of this system destroys everything,including CAL........sad thing.
For sure,if I know this,I am not coming here-(I am against CAL,not the local ordinary people)-and I guess none of us would ever enter this door.
TP,can You imagine lets say any german origin pilot to get any abuse while he is flying for Cargolux(Luxemburg),Transavia(Holland) or in the UK?Is the term "third world" based only on the infrastructure or something else?Maybe I am too conservative,but for me a national flag-carrier,run by the government is a mirror of the given country.The service,the maintenance,the flight ops.,the working ethics,the company culture.
TP,why CAL is looking for "loosers"?And why CX,SQ,LH,BA,KL,EK...etc dont?OK,You say command at QF or CX is about 7-10 years,OK I accept this,I accept everything is not based on racist discrimination or lie.When the standards and requirement are valid for all employee.And no,I dont judge the taiwanese people on the experience of the national flag-carrier.On my last SIM-(as a support,not a checkee)- I was really thinking about to walk out of the equipment,please dont use me to maintain your system to let the preferable group wear the 4 stripes,no matter how incompetent they are.Although I am not a top gun,but this was a joke.And the cold shower,they brief me for 50 mins. as a support,how bad I am and the local top gun was briefed for 10 mins in mandarin as the notice on the IPs pen says;I am a CRM believer,lets work together....bull.....t.The taiwanese are very disciplined people,they wouldnt do this way,if it wouldnt be the offical policy by the management.
The same night I have signed the contract for a narrow-body and faxed home,reply arrived the next morning.
And I guess the bigest lie was interview here.The interview held by the mangement of the taiwanese flag-carrier.The fact is,the only way CAL gets pilots if they lie to them.This their real recruitment policy.My intention was to come here and fly for them until retirement,now I am only counting the days left here.My intention was even to pick up some mandarin.Why the hell they cant have a system like at CX?This airline could be as successful and as good to work for as CX,they have all the potential for that,specially now,that they are opening the airlinks to the mainland China,but the system and the representatives of this system destroys everything,including CAL........sad thing.
For sure,if I know this,I am not coming here-(I am against CAL,not the local ordinary people)-and I guess none of us would ever enter this door.
TP,can You imagine lets say any german origin pilot to get any abuse while he is flying for Cargolux(Luxemburg),Transavia(Holland) or in the UK?Is the term "third world" based only on the infrastructure or something else?Maybe I am too conservative,but for me a national flag-carrier,run by the government is a mirror of the given country.The service,the maintenance,the flight ops.,the working ethics,the company culture.
TP,why CAL is looking for "loosers"?And why CX,SQ,LH,BA,KL,EK...etc dont?OK,You say command at QF or CX is about 7-10 years,OK I accept this,I accept everything is not based on racist discrimination or lie.When the standards and requirement are valid for all employee.And no,I dont judge the taiwanese people on the experience of the national flag-carrier.On my last SIM-(as a support,not a checkee)- I was really thinking about to walk out of the equipment,please dont use me to maintain your system to let the preferable group wear the 4 stripes,no matter how incompetent they are.Although I am not a top gun,but this was a joke.And the cold shower,they brief me for 50 mins. as a support,how bad I am and the local top gun was briefed for 10 mins in mandarin as the notice on the IPs pen says;I am a CRM believer,lets work together....bull.....t.The taiwanese are very disciplined people,they wouldnt do this way,if it wouldnt be the offical policy by the management.
The same night I have signed the contract for a narrow-body and faxed home,reply arrived the next morning.
Last edited by Deske1; 16th Jun 2006 at 09:35.