Malayan Airways: "For Half the Pay"
The Reverend
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Sydney,NSW,Australia
Posts: 2,020
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The flight continued and proceeded on one engine to overfly two perfectly good airfields at Kuala Lumpur and Malacca with the passengers blissfully unaware.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Penang: Hills do not "surround" the airport. An approach to one end of the runway is over the sea, with no high ground between the coast and runway threshhold. If conditions are VMC (which didn't seem to worry you too much when they weren't, anyway) then it is easy to make a right break and remain over water on downwind before turning base and final, well away from high ground, for landing on the reciprocal end.
Butterworth: A stones throw from Penang, would be available in an emergency.
"Malacca: Available but tower had to be called out and goose neck flares laid and lit, time waster, better to keep going." That is your opinion only, Roy Rogers.
The checklist for an engine failure in the F27 clearly states, "land at the nearest suitable airport".
Johor Baru ?: No metion made of JB, however I'm unsure when it opened.
"Singapore: Destination, home base with maintenance facilities. No obstructions, flat approaches to long runways.."
Paya Lebar (which is where I assume you were landing, and not Seletar) is a single runway from memory, with approaches to both ends over denslely populated residential areas.
In a word, Professionally.
Which is what the P in PPRuNe stands for. Your tales read like something from a Boy's Own or Biggles book, and your peurile (which means "childish", to save you running for your dictionary) comment, "You certainly are a wet blanket" is an indication that your blustering tales of yore are aimed at the non-aviation professionals who occasionally frequent this website.
Best of Luck in finding a job soon, winglet. The job scene is certainly opening up and, imo, will continue to do so this year - so perhaps you'll be airborne again very soon.
Butterworth: A stones throw from Penang, would be available in an emergency.
"Malacca: Available but tower had to be called out and goose neck flares laid and lit, time waster, better to keep going." That is your opinion only, Roy Rogers.
The checklist for an engine failure in the F27 clearly states, "land at the nearest suitable airport".
Johor Baru ?: No metion made of JB, however I'm unsure when it opened.
"Singapore: Destination, home base with maintenance facilities. No obstructions, flat approaches to long runways.."
Paya Lebar (which is where I assume you were landing, and not Seletar) is a single runway from memory, with approaches to both ends over denslely populated residential areas.
perhaps....you will now tell me just how this particular situation shoud have been handled.
Which is what the P in PPRuNe stands for. Your tales read like something from a Boy's Own or Biggles book, and your peurile (which means "childish", to save you running for your dictionary) comment, "You certainly are a wet blanket" is an indication that your blustering tales of yore are aimed at the non-aviation professionals who occasionally frequent this website.
Best of Luck in finding a job soon, winglet. The job scene is certainly opening up and, imo, will continue to do so this year - so perhaps you'll be airborne again very soon.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Longitude East 114 degrees
Posts: 272
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Kaptin M:
You certainly know how to wriggle out from under and I continue to be intrigued by your never ending use of the word professional. You seem to need it as some sort of ego boosting talisman. It has crossed my mind that your nom de guerre should be changed to "Kaptin Parrot" as we all know a parrot is a bird that talks a lot but it is not one of high flight. In spite of everything I hold no grudge against you but I find it just a little sad (aviationwise) that you don't understand what I am saying.
Prince of Dzun
You certainly know how to wriggle out from under and I continue to be intrigued by your never ending use of the word professional. You seem to need it as some sort of ego boosting talisman. It has crossed my mind that your nom de guerre should be changed to "Kaptin Parrot" as we all know a parrot is a bird that talks a lot but it is not one of high flight. In spite of everything I hold no grudge against you but I find it just a little sad (aviationwise) that you don't understand what I am saying.
Prince of Dzun
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Dear Prince,
Times have changed. I am not trying to "wriggle out from under", by presenting you with FACTUAL data that was as relevant to your operations then, as it is today.
Similarly, I hold no grudge against you per se, as you are quite probably representative of the airmen who flew in your era. You loved your company, and company interests were almost always paramount to one's thinking wrt operations - sometimes placed ahead of decisions, which had they been purely Safety orientated, would have taken second place.
But you were not crucified for making what was probaly a major cost-saving decision - at no discernible increase in danger to pax & aircraft.
Unfortunately, as aircraft have become more complex, we pilots are now monitored during EVERY phase of flight, including taxi-ing!!
We are becoming experts at covering our collective @sses, by doing EVERYTHING as per the employing company's SOP's.
In other words, I have been as harsh on you as any of today's employers would be.
Do I enjoy it?
Having been fortunate enough to have flown through the transitional period, I have to admit to mixed feelings. I flew for an airline that I loved, and might well have concurred with the decision YOU elected to make in continuing to SIN vs landing "at the nearest suitable" - but in today's "dog eat dog" world the very Company which we believe we are trying to help, is just as likely to terminate us, because we didn't operate to the letter of the O.M.
Maybe I've played Devil's Advocate with you, Prince of Dzun??
And hopefully YOU might understand why today's pilots seem so much more "mercinary" than you gentlemen were.
I tips me hat to you, Sir!!
Times have changed. I am not trying to "wriggle out from under", by presenting you with FACTUAL data that was as relevant to your operations then, as it is today.
Similarly, I hold no grudge against you per se, as you are quite probably representative of the airmen who flew in your era. You loved your company, and company interests were almost always paramount to one's thinking wrt operations - sometimes placed ahead of decisions, which had they been purely Safety orientated, would have taken second place.
But you were not crucified for making what was probaly a major cost-saving decision - at no discernible increase in danger to pax & aircraft.
Unfortunately, as aircraft have become more complex, we pilots are now monitored during EVERY phase of flight, including taxi-ing!!
We are becoming experts at covering our collective @sses, by doing EVERYTHING as per the employing company's SOP's.
In other words, I have been as harsh on you as any of today's employers would be.
Do I enjoy it?
Having been fortunate enough to have flown through the transitional period, I have to admit to mixed feelings. I flew for an airline that I loved, and might well have concurred with the decision YOU elected to make in continuing to SIN vs landing "at the nearest suitable" - but in today's "dog eat dog" world the very Company which we believe we are trying to help, is just as likely to terminate us, because we didn't operate to the letter of the O.M.
Maybe I've played Devil's Advocate with you, Prince of Dzun??
And hopefully YOU might understand why today's pilots seem so much more "mercinary" than you gentlemen were.
I tips me hat to you, Sir!!
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Lee Gardens
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
no way jose!!
i still think you are a fake!
you have deviated so far from your orig post without defending your position, now you even avoided defending your strategy in the scenario that you drew???
you know something? the guy that takes you on your base checks must be a long suffering soul. the way you keep rambling on about authors, days of yore, attempting to teach english, and all the while evading the technical issues.
do you wear that white scarf and leather whilst you at the keyboard?
come on, man, get a grip and just discuss the issues at hand. we are not cadets that just got thru the interview, give us something solid to debate.
you have deviated so far from your orig post without defending your position, now you even avoided defending your strategy in the scenario that you drew???
you know something? the guy that takes you on your base checks must be a long suffering soul. the way you keep rambling on about authors, days of yore, attempting to teach english, and all the while evading the technical issues.
do you wear that white scarf and leather whilst you at the keyboard?
come on, man, get a grip and just discuss the issues at hand. we are not cadets that just got thru the interview, give us something solid to debate.
Come on you professional pilots,put yourself in the same position as PoD, in your shiny jet, from Penang, today, and lose an engine, What would you do? After sorting it out you would be on the radio to your Base , asking what to do---guaranteed!
If you talk about professional aviators; what about the national flag carrier pilot landing at HK, in a bit of a x-wind , and clobbering the pods on a 747; from the pictures it seemed as though he was landing across the runway" bit short , tuan, but very wide", and the other flag carrier who took off and scraped the tail at Auck. then flew all the way home...... Professional??? You guys get paid a lot, but sometimes it seems as though it is your only consideration............!
PoDz`s storyline related to a time when people flew by their intuition, seat-of-the-pants, local knowledge, in a/c that didn`t have the performance levels that todays a/c have, or the nav/radar etc; Would you pull up in a Dak or F-27, into a thunderstorm to do an NDB, when a safer option is to coast-crawl?
You guys are molly-coddled today; I`m not sure if many of you would have the natural handling skills to fly PoDz`s Tiger Moth
, and certainly your cross-cockpit management must be a joy to behold , unless it concerns your " ringgit" valuation of your worth!!
If you don`t understand it, it was what is known as a "throw-away-line", which is normal in certain surroundings when one is in like company, in certain circumstances--- a bit of a joke, not to be taken literally, or too seriously; However, you all jumped in with your mouths open-----as professional pilots were you never told to engage brain first, count to five, then speak!!
Furthermore, if any of you would have had cause to read and learn about the history of your airlines, instead of the market figures you would have a little more humility, and respect, for those pilots and crew who forged the way for you, professionals, to fly your wonderjets, and worry about your ringgits!
If you talk about professional aviators; what about the national flag carrier pilot landing at HK, in a bit of a x-wind , and clobbering the pods on a 747; from the pictures it seemed as though he was landing across the runway" bit short , tuan, but very wide", and the other flag carrier who took off and scraped the tail at Auck. then flew all the way home...... Professional??? You guys get paid a lot, but sometimes it seems as though it is your only consideration............!
PoDz`s storyline related to a time when people flew by their intuition, seat-of-the-pants, local knowledge, in a/c that didn`t have the performance levels that todays a/c have, or the nav/radar etc; Would you pull up in a Dak or F-27, into a thunderstorm to do an NDB, when a safer option is to coast-crawl?
You guys are molly-coddled today; I`m not sure if many of you would have the natural handling skills to fly PoDz`s Tiger Moth
, and certainly your cross-cockpit management must be a joy to behold , unless it concerns your " ringgit" valuation of your worth!!
If you don`t understand it, it was what is known as a "throw-away-line", which is normal in certain surroundings when one is in like company, in certain circumstances--- a bit of a joke, not to be taken literally, or too seriously; However, you all jumped in with your mouths open-----as professional pilots were you never told to engage brain first, count to five, then speak!!
Furthermore, if any of you would have had cause to read and learn about the history of your airlines, instead of the market figures you would have a little more humility, and respect, for those pilots and crew who forged the way for you, professionals, to fly your wonderjets, and worry about your ringgits!
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Lee Gardens
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ah another one who rides around in his jag and now wants to be parsimonious!!
encik, all your tall stories cannot feed mouths lah. can i also take it that you would have done it all on half pay? before i go on?
if as you put it...." today...shiny jets...lose an engine....what would u do?" we might as well not do base checks!!! lose one out of KL, SIN,....wherever, we fly it to anywhere we want.
pls-lah, the folks here are not cadet pilots. we are not out crusing for a brusing either. but if something comes along and worth debating, bring it on man! bring it on!
and none of this, i have more flying then you so i know i am right kind of crap. oh yes, humility, hmmm, since you brought it up, i thought it was a hallmark of humility that you only told your stories when asked??
encik, all your tall stories cannot feed mouths lah. can i also take it that you would have done it all on half pay? before i go on?
if as you put it...." today...shiny jets...lose an engine....what would u do?" we might as well not do base checks!!! lose one out of KL, SIN,....wherever, we fly it to anywhere we want.
pls-lah, the folks here are not cadet pilots. we are not out crusing for a brusing either. but if something comes along and worth debating, bring it on man! bring it on!
and none of this, i have more flying then you so i know i am right kind of crap. oh yes, humility, hmmm, since you brought it up, i thought it was a hallmark of humility that you only told your stories when asked??
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Longitude East 114 degrees
Posts: 272
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Kaptin M:
I always had a slight suspicion that you were indeed playing the Devil's Advocate and that's OK as it has certainly kept this debate lively and I must admit I have enjoyed every word of it. I know about all the negatives you have mentioned and I also know about long nights and landing at dawn with sand in my eyes. Would I have done that for half the pay??? That's a question I can't even answer to myself. I'd like to propose a truce (the cease fire kind, not the Malay word for straight ahead).
Sycamore:
That's a nice piece of analytical writing. The Chinese people have a wise saying that goes: "When a person drinks at a well they should remember who dug it. " If one thinks about this then I guess that just about sums up everything in life.
As an aside, I remember Sycamore helicopters in Malaya.
b777pilot:
I understand what you are saying and believe it or not I'm on your side.
Regards to you all,
Prince of Dzun
I always had a slight suspicion that you were indeed playing the Devil's Advocate and that's OK as it has certainly kept this debate lively and I must admit I have enjoyed every word of it. I know about all the negatives you have mentioned and I also know about long nights and landing at dawn with sand in my eyes. Would I have done that for half the pay??? That's a question I can't even answer to myself. I'd like to propose a truce (the cease fire kind, not the Malay word for straight ahead).
Sycamore:
That's a nice piece of analytical writing. The Chinese people have a wise saying that goes: "When a person drinks at a well they should remember who dug it. " If one thinks about this then I guess that just about sums up everything in life.
As an aside, I remember Sycamore helicopters in Malaya.
b777pilot:
I understand what you are saying and believe it or not I'm on your side.
Regards to you all,
Prince of Dzun
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Lee Gardens
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ok prince. not one to reject an outstretched hand, i agree, we stop this.
if our paths should cross at a watering hole, and by and by it transpires, that we have 'met', let me buy you a round.
in addition, i would like to hear stories of hostesses of days gone by.
cheers!
if our paths should cross at a watering hole, and by and by it transpires, that we have 'met', let me buy you a round.
in addition, i would like to hear stories of hostesses of days gone by.
cheers!
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
My apologies if it seemed a little heated at times, Prince - however to your credit you kept coming back and shooting more volleys.
I agree, it was a good lively discussion that perhaps gives you some indication of what we (pilots) have to contend with these days, to try to give you some insight as to why there is often an "anti-company" attitude vs the strong company spirit that you obviously enjoyed throughout your airline career, and that I was fortunate to also experience for perhaps the first decade of mine.
In other words, taking a particular course of action nowadays, which you believe is for the benefit of the Company - rather than strictly (blindly) following the OM - may well end one up being severly sanctioned (or worse) by management who have no real knowledge of actual flying ops.
Terima kaseh dan Selamat Jalan, Encik.
I agree, it was a good lively discussion that perhaps gives you some indication of what we (pilots) have to contend with these days, to try to give you some insight as to why there is often an "anti-company" attitude vs the strong company spirit that you obviously enjoyed throughout your airline career, and that I was fortunate to also experience for perhaps the first decade of mine.
In other words, taking a particular course of action nowadays, which you believe is for the benefit of the Company - rather than strictly (blindly) following the OM - may well end one up being severly sanctioned (or worse) by management who have no real knowledge of actual flying ops.
Terima kaseh dan Selamat Jalan, Encik.
