China Airlines/China Airlines F/O, (update)-Merged Twice!.
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Asia
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My one and only advise
ONT TAKE IT,I wouldnt do as well.
When I came,the contract was usd 5100+per diem(3 usd/hour)+housing(NTD 31000~1100 usd)+overtime.Taxed by 20%.Only 15.000 usd training bond for 3 years,NO BANK GUARANTIE.Thats what I have signed a little bit more than a year ago.I left my B737 job at home,if I could turn back time,now I wouldnt,even for the above mentioned contract.
If you take the bank guarantie you'll be in a trap.A very painfull trap!It simply not worth for usd 3600.
You will live like a zombee,everytime tired and overworked not to mention the aviation side in the cockpit.Will not be able to recreate on your 8 days home leave,just sleep and sleep and after that it starts again.Forget your life,and forget the left seat here.EVEN the taiwanese pilots resign these days,I guess it says a lot!And CAL reduces the salary! Its crazy,I dont belive it!
ONT TAKE IT,I wouldnt do as well.When I came,the contract was usd 5100+per diem(3 usd/hour)+housing(NTD 31000~1100 usd)+overtime.Taxed by 20%.Only 15.000 usd training bond for 3 years,NO BANK GUARANTIE.Thats what I have signed a little bit more than a year ago.I left my B737 job at home,if I could turn back time,now I wouldnt,even for the above mentioned contract.
If you take the bank guarantie you'll be in a trap.A very painfull trap!It simply not worth for usd 3600.
You will live like a zombee,everytime tired and overworked not to mention the aviation side in the cockpit.Will not be able to recreate on your 8 days home leave,just sleep and sleep and after that it starts again.Forget your life,and forget the left seat here.EVEN the taiwanese pilots resign these days,I guess it says a lot!And CAL reduces the salary! Its crazy,I dont belive it!
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: north america
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There you have it. Sounds like the contract gets worse every six months! plus the bank guarantee now will keep pilots from leaving before the contract expires. What about if you get fired? Do you get the money back?
It took two weeks to get the medical results and offer. Hope this all helps. Enjoy the trip over there and make the most of it all and you can make your decision later.
cheers
It took two weeks to get the medical results and offer. Hope this all helps. Enjoy the trip over there and make the most of it all and you can make your decision later.
cheers
Join Date: Feb 2002
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ya but you will always dream of being the real pilot.
Thanks Bustie, you make my day, best laugh of the week.
For the others, I would think it was clear from sometimes already in this thread:
Don't come here as an first officer, unless you are desesperate and even then, think about it really carefully. Period!
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Canada
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After phone interview
Okay it's been over two weeks after my phone interview and no calls and e-mails.
They did ask for refferences, so I know the phone interview went well.
I heard they are hiring swiss pilots too, what's that all about?
so that means, they stoped hiring?
how long usually takes for them to answer you after the phone interview?
thanks
They did ask for refferences, so I know the phone interview went well.
I heard they are hiring swiss pilots too, what's that all about?
so that means, they stoped hiring?
how long usually takes for them to answer you after the phone interview?
thanks
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Greetings Gents,
Just received the introductory Brief, and Interview offer.
Looks like they've got interview slots right through till Christmas. (works out at 54 interviews NOV/DEC)
Cant believe the pay offer of US$3300/738, and US$3600/744 (Gross)
Thats about a 29 percent drop from "Deske's" $5100 Contract 12 months or so ago.
Have any of you latest interviewees tried to negotiate something a little more humane than this???
Cheers.
SA
Just received the introductory Brief, and Interview offer.
Looks like they've got interview slots right through till Christmas. (works out at 54 interviews NOV/DEC)
Cant believe the pay offer of US$3300/738, and US$3600/744 (Gross)
Thats about a 29 percent drop from "Deske's" $5100 Contract 12 months or so ago.
Have any of you latest interviewees tried to negotiate something a little more humane than this???
Cheers.
SA
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Flight Levels
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Hey Albatross
I will be doing the interview in November.
If it all comes back positive, I will be negotiating on the pay and bond.
I suggest we all do the same.
This can't go on.
Beyond.
I will be doing the interview in November.
If it all comes back positive, I will be negotiating on the pay and bond.
I suggest we all do the same.
This can't go on.
Beyond.
Join Date: Oct 2005
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How many hours is this new pay based on? Is it 70 hours, less or more? Do these figures include the market allowance or not and what is the housing allowance now?
By the way, has anyone (with cohones) recently attended an interview and asked why the pay is getting lower and lower or is the allure of heavier metal too much to pass up?
By the way, has anyone (with cohones) recently attended an interview and asked why the pay is getting lower and lower or is the allure of heavier metal too much to pass up?
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Hey MellowFello,
Not sure if things have changed buy FYI...the pay has traditionally been based on 70 hours FLIGHT time...that is FLIGHT time, not BLOCK time. I think CAL is the only co. in the world that does this. I was not aware of it prior to signing the dotted line....should have poked around a bit more. At the end of the day...I think you can equate it to an 80 hr normal block. I don't know exactly why the pay is going down but I do know it is contrary to industry trends right now. I think the reason is that they no longer are hiring with type endorsements so they think they can attract people to the equipment. The only way to teach them is to say no way. Eventually they will have to figure it out. At the end of the day they are playing the supply/demand game...and that will dictate what they offer. Lets not sell ourselve's short. There seems to be options these days...so I say we let them know it. Maybe even just mention it...they may sweeten the pot for you..it doesn't hurt. I won't restate alot of what has been said about CAL, but it is far from perfect. Look around really good before deciding! IE: Parc, Rishworth, Direct Personnel, Flight Int'l, WASINC, IASCO, Hawaii Aviation, Etc....
With CAL, be patient...people are leaving pretty fast....if they can't replace fast enough, they will have to get real!
Good luck.
Not sure if things have changed buy FYI...the pay has traditionally been based on 70 hours FLIGHT time...that is FLIGHT time, not BLOCK time. I think CAL is the only co. in the world that does this. I was not aware of it prior to signing the dotted line....should have poked around a bit more. At the end of the day...I think you can equate it to an 80 hr normal block. I don't know exactly why the pay is going down but I do know it is contrary to industry trends right now. I think the reason is that they no longer are hiring with type endorsements so they think they can attract people to the equipment. The only way to teach them is to say no way. Eventually they will have to figure it out. At the end of the day they are playing the supply/demand game...and that will dictate what they offer. Lets not sell ourselve's short. There seems to be options these days...so I say we let them know it. Maybe even just mention it...they may sweeten the pot for you..it doesn't hurt. I won't restate alot of what has been said about CAL, but it is far from perfect. Look around really good before deciding! IE: Parc, Rishworth, Direct Personnel, Flight Int'l, WASINC, IASCO, Hawaii Aviation, Etc....
With CAL, be patient...people are leaving pretty fast....if they can't replace fast enough, they will have to get real!
Good luck.
Join Date: Oct 2005
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living allowance?
- contractual details mention the term "living allowance". What does this stand for?
- Pension and Loss of Licence is not mentioned either, any delight?
- What happens if you are sick for more than 5 days in a row? Will your salary be affected or is an insurance kicking in?
Overtime Payment:
Overtime Hours are actual flying hours minus standard hours, which is guaranteed hours, 70h.
- Pension and Loss of Licence is not mentioned either, any delight?
- What happens if you are sick for more than 5 days in a row? Will your salary be affected or is an insurance kicking in?
Overtime Payment:
Overtime Hours are actual flying hours minus standard hours, which is guaranteed hours, 70h.
Join Date: Jun 2004
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There is no Pension Fund up to 15 years of service time.Simply not exits.
You will have 5 days of (paid) sick leave per year ,all the others are unpaid.Thats it.I think it doesnt need any more explanation.If You get sick,You may apply for unpaid leave or can use your Annual Leave.
Loss of Licence also DOESNT exits.
You will have 5 days of (paid) sick leave per year ,all the others are unpaid.Thats it.I think it doesnt need any more explanation.If You get sick,You may apply for unpaid leave or can use your Annual Leave.
Loss of Licence also DOESNT exits.
Join Date: Feb 2005
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China Air - Age Requirement
Hi Jim,
Thanks for the info on China Air. I was looking at their website and see that they place a age restriction of 45 for applicants. Are they considering relaxing the age requirement. I would like to even get in a a cruise pilot, but my age is now 49. Yikes!
Jon
Thanks for the info on China Air. I was looking at their website and see that they place a age restriction of 45 for applicants. Are they considering relaxing the age requirement. I would like to even get in a a cruise pilot, but my age is now 49. Yikes!
Jon
Join Date: Jun 2004
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I THINK THE TIME HAS COME FOR THE MANAGMENT OF CHINA AIRLINES TO REVIEW THE FIRST OFFICER SALARIES ON THE
B747-400 FLEET.
7000 USD/MONTH AFTER TAX + HOUSING IN BEIJING
November 2005
ACC B747-400 First Officer Positions
Please find below a indicative summary of the package for
B747-400 First Officers available with
Air China Cargo (ACC).
Basic prerequisites, as set by ACC, are a minimum of 500 hours on type,
and Total Flight Time of over 3000 hours.
Air China Cargo B747-400 First Officers:-
Term: - 24 months – extendable (For start immediately and into 2006)
Base: - Beijing (and possibly Shanghai)
Monthly Remuneration:
- US$6,000 salary net/month paid off-shore
During first 8 weeks of training US$4,800 salary net/month
- Overtime is paid on time over 255 hours per 3 months at 1/85th of monthly salary per hour
- Chinese income tax is paid by ACC
Per Diem: - US$1,000/month as per policy and procedures for equivalent personnel
Accommodation: - In Beijing: Hotel or allowance of RMB4,000/month (2 – 3 bedroom
apartment where foreigners live, nearby is a reasonably priced International
School, University, International standard golf course, new or recently
renovated 4 – 5 star hotels with gyms and pools, variety of restaurants, and
International Exhibition Centre)
Days free of duty: - 8 consecutive days per month (averaged over 6 months), during training 2 days/week
Travel: -
-
-
-
At beginning and completion (with excess luggage allowance)
3 international return air tickets every 12 months
2 domestic return air tickets
Access to ACC and Air China worldwide services for discount travel
Sick Leave: - 12 days per annum
Annual Leave: - 21 days per annum
Insurance: - Emergency medical/travel insurance provided to purchase Comprehensive Medical Cover (personal + family) at very
competitive rates.
Other: Maximum age limit of 56 years
Screening checks are to be conducted in Beijing immediately,
with travel and hotel provided. Please advise windows of your availability to attend checks over the next
month or two and to start in January 2006 or soon as possible thereafter. [SIZE=3][B]
B747-400 FLEET.
7000 USD/MONTH AFTER TAX + HOUSING IN BEIJING
November 2005
ACC B747-400 First Officer Positions
Please find below a indicative summary of the package for
B747-400 First Officers available with
Air China Cargo (ACC).
Basic prerequisites, as set by ACC, are a minimum of 500 hours on type,
and Total Flight Time of over 3000 hours.
Air China Cargo B747-400 First Officers:-
Term: - 24 months – extendable (For start immediately and into 2006)
Base: - Beijing (and possibly Shanghai)
Monthly Remuneration:
- US$6,000 salary net/month paid off-shore
During first 8 weeks of training US$4,800 salary net/month
- Overtime is paid on time over 255 hours per 3 months at 1/85th of monthly salary per hour
- Chinese income tax is paid by ACC
Per Diem: - US$1,000/month as per policy and procedures for equivalent personnel
Accommodation: - In Beijing: Hotel or allowance of RMB4,000/month (2 – 3 bedroom
apartment where foreigners live, nearby is a reasonably priced International
School, University, International standard golf course, new or recently
renovated 4 – 5 star hotels with gyms and pools, variety of restaurants, and
International Exhibition Centre)
Days free of duty: - 8 consecutive days per month (averaged over 6 months), during training 2 days/week
Travel: -
-
-
-
At beginning and completion (with excess luggage allowance)
3 international return air tickets every 12 months
2 domestic return air tickets
Access to ACC and Air China worldwide services for discount travel
Sick Leave: - 12 days per annum
Annual Leave: - 21 days per annum
Insurance: - Emergency medical/travel insurance provided to purchase Comprehensive Medical Cover (personal + family) at very
competitive rates.
Other: Maximum age limit of 56 years
Screening checks are to be conducted in Beijing immediately,
with travel and hotel provided. Please advise windows of your availability to attend checks over the next
month or two and to start in January 2006 or soon as possible thereafter. [SIZE=3][B]
Last edited by Deske1; 5th Nov 2005 at 03:36.
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well said
deske1
well said. in the past, salaries are usually lower in mainland china compared to taiwan. now that you have put this thing about Air China Cargo up, it IS about time CAL take a serious look at the packages they are offering foreign pilots!
unbelievable
well said. in the past, salaries are usually lower in mainland china compared to taiwan. now that you have put this thing about Air China Cargo up, it IS about time CAL take a serious look at the packages they are offering foreign pilots!
unbelievable
Join Date: Jun 2004
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So as the CAL contract says:
"Housing Allowance and Market Allowance will be reviewed and adjusted by the Company in December of each calendar year."
So its easy,apply for ACC,and in December take the 2 contracts and do the math.Not to mention,that in Taiwan,YOU have to pay the state tax(20%) even after the housing allowance,not the company does.
"Housing Allowance and Market Allowance will be reviewed and adjusted by the Company in December of each calendar year."
So its easy,apply for ACC,and in December take the 2 contracts and do the math.Not to mention,that in Taiwan,YOU have to pay the state tax(20%) even after the housing allowance,not the company does.
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I applied 1 month ago and have will do the pre-interview this week...I have no jet time, currently have 3700hrs and am training captain on a King Air 100 in Canada. I have to say reading this thread has made a huge negative impact on my view of CAL... I cant see leaving home for the crap they are paying and the work conditions .
I guess I'll be asking some pretty pointed questions during the interview....
I guess I'll be asking some pretty pointed questions during the interview....