For International Cadets.
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Hey guyz, I just wanted to know if anyone knows when the next batch is goin to start, i just submitted my application online. also MIKE_KILO_SIERRA, ur the only Indian I have come across here.. can u please tell me how the entry process is? also right now i have 200hrs with a PPL, will tht be an advantage for me???
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Hong Kong
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Another View of looking at all this...
Wow... Just a few months and this has turn into a fight between the experience and the cadet pilot wannabe...
Anyway, Just to balance the view point a little bit.
First of all, I don't want to get shot by "404Titan" as I think he have made some very good point, although a little bit on the extreme case. I agree with "404Titan" that with a single S/O salary on CEP (cadet / local terms), you will find it very difficult to feed a family of 3 or 4, especially if your wife does not work. However, for most cadets applicants, I don't think this is the case.
First let's ask ourselves a few realistic questions:
How many cadets applicants have a family right now?
How many of them are even married now?
How many of them have kids now?
How many of them are even dating now?
How many of them are old than 25 now?
I am sure most of you will get a sense of my questions. I am emphasizing NOW... No matter, what everyone tells you, your life NOW matter as much as your life down the road... who knows... many of you might work at CX and become F/O and move on and get a job at some other airlines... Some might stay until they retired... some might even quit flying after a while... No one can make a decision and tell me what they will or will not do OR what will or will not happen in their career or their life for that matter... everything is a calculated risk and balance... you can reject CX cadetship NOW, and you might end up not going anywhere in aviation? This could potentially happen and it has happened to many many many pilots in the world... or you can reject the cadetship NOW and have a very successful aviation career... who knows? The thing is, no one knows... and hence, that's why I want to emphasize NOW... I understand others concern to plan ahead and look at their career in a LONG term point of view... but how LONG can you look ahead if you do not have a job NOW and you are a pilot wanna be? I understand that being a cadet on local CEP contract, you will have a HKD7 million dollar income shortfall according to "404Titan" calculation, based on two pilots starting their career at 30 years of age... his calculation is valid up to a certain point, however, he did not consider higher income at a lower age and how that will impact your retirement fund value and package? Even a 5 years difference in your career at CX, a cadet CEP retirement funds based on an average 5 to 10% return can be up to 30% to 50% more than what you will get if you join as an DESO 5 years later than a cadet... I am sure "404Titan" can understand that and can work that one out, I couldn't be bother to build a spread sheets to explain it... So take that into account, your long term benefits from your cadet employment vs DESO, taking into account of your retirement funds (assuming both pilot invest in the same portfolio of funds), the disparity between the two pilot will not be as great as suggested... Just another very important thing to think about, for those who are interested in looking at the in the LONG term...
Anyway, back to NOW... and back to all my previous questions... considering most cadets applicants are usually single less than 25 years old... so it is more than reasonable to assume that they will be able to live with their S/O salary in HK. Many local CEP has been doing that for years (many of them don't have family in HK either, as their family has moved overseas years ago, so most CEP do pay rent with their salary). So it is definitely doable.
However, I am not going to completely count out other arguements where you will eventually get a family and have kids etc. But realistically, by the time you do that, you will probably an F/O or in the worse case situation, you will be at the year 3 or 4 S/O position. So your salary should be a lot higher than when you first started... Also, expenses in HK really depends on what type of life style you are aiming for and looking for in HK, especially when you are a young S/O? (This apply if you are older as well)... People really need to go ask themselves, are you going to live the full expat (banker and lawyer) life styles while you are in HK? To be honest, if you do want to live the full expat life style, even a F/O salary with full housing will not be enough... so many expat in HK makes 3 to 4 times CX captain salary... CX pilot is just small potatoes in the grand scheme of things... So if you are to hang out with investment banker or big shot lawyer and hang out with super models while you live in Hong Kong and go have a HKD120 dollar beer at a roof top bar or open a HKD3000 to 5000 dollar bottle of champagne... Eat at Mortons Steak House (which I personally think it is not that good) or Peking Duck at Peking Garden or Roast Goose at Yung Kee or any SoHo resturant every time you go out for dinner and spend anything from HKD300 to 1000 dollar per head? If you are to do that, than even if you are on CX expat package, you will not have enough money to go around as an S/O or F/O for that matter. (Just ask many young DESO and you will know).
Alternatively, you can go to Wanchai and hang out with all the 20-30 years old local and westerner and get a HKD20 dollar beer / drinks at Devils with your Standard Charter Notes or regular alcoholic drinks at HKD50-60... And go eat at one of the many good local restaurant or overseas chain... For Steak, you can go to Mr. Steak for a HKD80 steak... For Pizza, you can go to California Pizza Kitchen or Pizza Hut for a HKD80 to 100 dollar pizza... For your regular american food, you can go to Dan Ryans or Rugby Tuesday... Or if you prefer to go even cheaper... you can try any hot food join at any Wet Market or go to any local BBQ meat resturant or any local Dai Pai Dong or Cha Chun Tang and get a wanton noodels or get a cheap meal for less than HKD30...
As for shopping for food at home... you can do what most expat do... and go to City Super or 360s where a single medium size potatoes can cost you HKD20, and steak at the cheapest will cost you at HKD100 per 100g and goes up to HKD350 per 100g, fish are all imported and cost a fortune at these luxury super market, and other CAN food and seasoning are all the imported where it cost at least 3 to 4 time more than you would at a local supermarket... BUT alternatively, you can go to the wet market or a local super market chain and get fresh meat and fresh veggies and fruits for a fraction of the cost of what you will pay at Discovery Bay Super Market or any City Super or 360s stores...
As for your utilities... In HK, they are among the cheapest in the world... Internet will cost you max of HKD150 a month (not transfer limits)... if you want CableTV (which you will), if you get it with your Internet and Telephone from the same company... you can porbably get a package for all 3 (Internet, TV and Telephone) for less than HKD500 or 600 a month... Electricity, will cost you average of HKD600-700 a month... plus a few hundred for water every 3 months... Also you will need to get a mobile phone, which is a must in HK, that will usually cost you HKD100 / month...
So everything sound cheap so far... what will cost you the most in HK? It is rent as it has been mention to death on this thread... however, lets look realistically at this again for a moment... where do you want to live? Once again, do you want to live the expat life styles and live right at Central or Mid-Levels? Where a studio flat can cost you HKD12,000 to HKD15,000 a month rent... I know some local CEP S/O who do that... and they still managed to survive no problem but they will have a tighter budget than others... or you can live in many other places in HK, like Tsing Yi, Mongkok, Lai Chi Kok, Diamond Hill, Kowloon City, Kowloon Bay... all of these places are within 20 to 30mins metro (MTR) ride into central and these places will cost you half as much as it will cost you in Central and Mid-Levels... where the same studio flat will now cost you HKD6000 to HKD8000 (For those who is going to doubt me, I just check on centerline properties at a place in Mongkok / Sum Shui Po... a brand new development call "One New York", this is the current market rental price)...
So what does all of this means to someone from overseas and looking into applying for the cadet program? There are many options... things are not necessary as grim as shown in many reply in this thread... At the end of the day, the decision is your own... both side of the argument has some very valid points and many of these points shown in all of these threads... but at the end of the day, it all depends on how you look at it!
Final note... of course we all want expat package... and the local CEP as well as expat will continue to fight for the betterment of our package... for locals, it will be some form of housing assistance from the company... but who knows... we should think about NOW... it is too hard to think about the FUTURE and guess what will or will not happen... Make your decision based on what you know NOW...
Good luck everyone on your application!
[PS: Sorry for all the typos and grammatical error, I am too lazy to re-read and re-adjust everything... I am sure you will all understand what I am trying to say here.]
WOW...
Anyway, Just to balance the view point a little bit.
First of all, I don't want to get shot by "404Titan" as I think he have made some very good point, although a little bit on the extreme case. I agree with "404Titan" that with a single S/O salary on CEP (cadet / local terms), you will find it very difficult to feed a family of 3 or 4, especially if your wife does not work. However, for most cadets applicants, I don't think this is the case.
First let's ask ourselves a few realistic questions:
How many cadets applicants have a family right now?
How many of them are even married now?
How many of them have kids now?
How many of them are even dating now?
How many of them are old than 25 now?
I am sure most of you will get a sense of my questions. I am emphasizing NOW... No matter, what everyone tells you, your life NOW matter as much as your life down the road... who knows... many of you might work at CX and become F/O and move on and get a job at some other airlines... Some might stay until they retired... some might even quit flying after a while... No one can make a decision and tell me what they will or will not do OR what will or will not happen in their career or their life for that matter... everything is a calculated risk and balance... you can reject CX cadetship NOW, and you might end up not going anywhere in aviation? This could potentially happen and it has happened to many many many pilots in the world... or you can reject the cadetship NOW and have a very successful aviation career... who knows? The thing is, no one knows... and hence, that's why I want to emphasize NOW... I understand others concern to plan ahead and look at their career in a LONG term point of view... but how LONG can you look ahead if you do not have a job NOW and you are a pilot wanna be? I understand that being a cadet on local CEP contract, you will have a HKD7 million dollar income shortfall according to "404Titan" calculation, based on two pilots starting their career at 30 years of age... his calculation is valid up to a certain point, however, he did not consider higher income at a lower age and how that will impact your retirement fund value and package? Even a 5 years difference in your career at CX, a cadet CEP retirement funds based on an average 5 to 10% return can be up to 30% to 50% more than what you will get if you join as an DESO 5 years later than a cadet... I am sure "404Titan" can understand that and can work that one out, I couldn't be bother to build a spread sheets to explain it... So take that into account, your long term benefits from your cadet employment vs DESO, taking into account of your retirement funds (assuming both pilot invest in the same portfolio of funds), the disparity between the two pilot will not be as great as suggested... Just another very important thing to think about, for those who are interested in looking at the in the LONG term...
Anyway, back to NOW... and back to all my previous questions... considering most cadets applicants are usually single less than 25 years old... so it is more than reasonable to assume that they will be able to live with their S/O salary in HK. Many local CEP has been doing that for years (many of them don't have family in HK either, as their family has moved overseas years ago, so most CEP do pay rent with their salary). So it is definitely doable.
However, I am not going to completely count out other arguements where you will eventually get a family and have kids etc. But realistically, by the time you do that, you will probably an F/O or in the worse case situation, you will be at the year 3 or 4 S/O position. So your salary should be a lot higher than when you first started... Also, expenses in HK really depends on what type of life style you are aiming for and looking for in HK, especially when you are a young S/O? (This apply if you are older as well)... People really need to go ask themselves, are you going to live the full expat (banker and lawyer) life styles while you are in HK? To be honest, if you do want to live the full expat life style, even a F/O salary with full housing will not be enough... so many expat in HK makes 3 to 4 times CX captain salary... CX pilot is just small potatoes in the grand scheme of things... So if you are to hang out with investment banker or big shot lawyer and hang out with super models while you live in Hong Kong and go have a HKD120 dollar beer at a roof top bar or open a HKD3000 to 5000 dollar bottle of champagne... Eat at Mortons Steak House (which I personally think it is not that good) or Peking Duck at Peking Garden or Roast Goose at Yung Kee or any SoHo resturant every time you go out for dinner and spend anything from HKD300 to 1000 dollar per head? If you are to do that, than even if you are on CX expat package, you will not have enough money to go around as an S/O or F/O for that matter. (Just ask many young DESO and you will know).
Alternatively, you can go to Wanchai and hang out with all the 20-30 years old local and westerner and get a HKD20 dollar beer / drinks at Devils with your Standard Charter Notes or regular alcoholic drinks at HKD50-60... And go eat at one of the many good local restaurant or overseas chain... For Steak, you can go to Mr. Steak for a HKD80 steak... For Pizza, you can go to California Pizza Kitchen or Pizza Hut for a HKD80 to 100 dollar pizza... For your regular american food, you can go to Dan Ryans or Rugby Tuesday... Or if you prefer to go even cheaper... you can try any hot food join at any Wet Market or go to any local BBQ meat resturant or any local Dai Pai Dong or Cha Chun Tang and get a wanton noodels or get a cheap meal for less than HKD30...
As for shopping for food at home... you can do what most expat do... and go to City Super or 360s where a single medium size potatoes can cost you HKD20, and steak at the cheapest will cost you at HKD100 per 100g and goes up to HKD350 per 100g, fish are all imported and cost a fortune at these luxury super market, and other CAN food and seasoning are all the imported where it cost at least 3 to 4 time more than you would at a local supermarket... BUT alternatively, you can go to the wet market or a local super market chain and get fresh meat and fresh veggies and fruits for a fraction of the cost of what you will pay at Discovery Bay Super Market or any City Super or 360s stores...
As for your utilities... In HK, they are among the cheapest in the world... Internet will cost you max of HKD150 a month (not transfer limits)... if you want CableTV (which you will), if you get it with your Internet and Telephone from the same company... you can porbably get a package for all 3 (Internet, TV and Telephone) for less than HKD500 or 600 a month... Electricity, will cost you average of HKD600-700 a month... plus a few hundred for water every 3 months... Also you will need to get a mobile phone, which is a must in HK, that will usually cost you HKD100 / month...
So everything sound cheap so far... what will cost you the most in HK? It is rent as it has been mention to death on this thread... however, lets look realistically at this again for a moment... where do you want to live? Once again, do you want to live the expat life styles and live right at Central or Mid-Levels? Where a studio flat can cost you HKD12,000 to HKD15,000 a month rent... I know some local CEP S/O who do that... and they still managed to survive no problem but they will have a tighter budget than others... or you can live in many other places in HK, like Tsing Yi, Mongkok, Lai Chi Kok, Diamond Hill, Kowloon City, Kowloon Bay... all of these places are within 20 to 30mins metro (MTR) ride into central and these places will cost you half as much as it will cost you in Central and Mid-Levels... where the same studio flat will now cost you HKD6000 to HKD8000 (For those who is going to doubt me, I just check on centerline properties at a place in Mongkok / Sum Shui Po... a brand new development call "One New York", this is the current market rental price)...
So what does all of this means to someone from overseas and looking into applying for the cadet program? There are many options... things are not necessary as grim as shown in many reply in this thread... At the end of the day, the decision is your own... both side of the argument has some very valid points and many of these points shown in all of these threads... but at the end of the day, it all depends on how you look at it!
Final note... of course we all want expat package... and the local CEP as well as expat will continue to fight for the betterment of our package... for locals, it will be some form of housing assistance from the company... but who knows... we should think about NOW... it is too hard to think about the FUTURE and guess what will or will not happen... Make your decision based on what you know NOW...
Good luck everyone on your application!
[PS: Sorry for all the typos and grammatical error, I am too lazy to re-read and re-adjust everything... I am sure you will all understand what I am trying to say here.]
WOW...
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Mumbai
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WOWPeter,
Thanks a lot for your insight and valuable information, this gives me an idea of how the lifestyle in HK is, as u said I am just 20 so i don't have any commitments at the moment , the only thing in my mind right now is to join Cathay and fly, SO if you live a simple life , there is no need to worry about the money and savings, a little control now will help u a great deal in the future, so if u can save now , u can spend later,
Thanks once again for ur precious insights,
Just a curious question though, are you with CX rite now?coz if u r then i would appreciate if u could giv me tips on how to go about the entry and wat r the tests like?
Regards,
RAhul
Thanks a lot for your insight and valuable information, this gives me an idea of how the lifestyle in HK is, as u said I am just 20 so i don't have any commitments at the moment , the only thing in my mind right now is to join Cathay and fly, SO if you live a simple life , there is no need to worry about the money and savings, a little control now will help u a great deal in the future, so if u can save now , u can spend later,
Thanks once again for ur precious insights,
Just a curious question though, are you with CX rite now?coz if u r then i would appreciate if u could giv me tips on how to go about the entry and wat r the tests like?
Regards,
RAhul
Join Date: Nov 2004
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anyone got any reply from cx, regarding stage1...i got email from them begining of december saying they have recieved my application and will advise when assesments will be conducted etc etc....after that no reply...its been literally more then 4 weeks
Join Date: Oct 2008
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@RP: If you have 200hrs, why don't you test for the CPL in India itself? Having the hours might/might not work in your favour. I would suggest, wait for CX to reply. I've been waiting for more than two months, yet to hear anything. So I'm managing about 10hrs every month and getting ready for CX if/when they call.
While you wait, apply for CPL exams and get the Indian license. There's nothing to lose.
MKS
While you wait, apply for CPL exams and get the Indian license. There's nothing to lose.
MKS
Join Date: Dec 2009
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@MKS
Hey MKS,
I really appreciate your concern, I am in the process of giving my DGCA exams, am preparing for the RT exam due in Mumbai next month also the Jan attempt which will hopefully be around the same time if not earlier.
Well I definitely think it might work in my favor as having experience will be an added advantage, CX do want applicants who are really passionate and have the ability for flying, also my 200hrs of flying experience also includes 60+ hours of solo of which 50 are cross country so I don't think that having only a PPL+IR license would make them think I'm a slow learner or something of that sort.
But yes I am not just waiting for a reply from them although now the CX CPP has become my No.1 priority now I'm also working towards getting my DGCA exams out of the way.
Also may I ask are you doing your complete training from India itself? Which school and how many hours have you completed till now? All the best to you and safe flying.
Regards,
Rahul Pereira
I really appreciate your concern, I am in the process of giving my DGCA exams, am preparing for the RT exam due in Mumbai next month also the Jan attempt which will hopefully be around the same time if not earlier.
Well I definitely think it might work in my favor as having experience will be an added advantage, CX do want applicants who are really passionate and have the ability for flying, also my 200hrs of flying experience also includes 60+ hours of solo of which 50 are cross country so I don't think that having only a PPL+IR license would make them think I'm a slow learner or something of that sort.
But yes I am not just waiting for a reply from them although now the CX CPP has become my No.1 priority now I'm also working towards getting my DGCA exams out of the way.
So I'm managing about 10hrs every month and getting ready for CX if/when they call.
Regards,
Rahul Pereira
Join Date: Oct 2008
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@RP: Yes I'm training from India. That's the only way I can keep my day job that funds my flying. I've clocked 25hrs till now. Currently I'm at Yash Air, but in the process of shifting to the Bombay Flying Club at Dhule. Good to hear that you are appearing for the exams. Wish you all the best.
@wowpeter: I just went through your page. Very informative, thanks for sharing. Does give people like us hope.
MKS
@wowpeter: I just went through your page. Very informative, thanks for sharing. Does give people like us hope.
MKS
Join Date: Jan 2010
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hey i had my first interview roughly a week before christmas, I was told i would be notified within a week and 3 weeks later im still yet to hear back.
I assume ive been unsuccessful in this instance
Anyone from australia heard back if they were accepted or rejected yet?
I assume ive been unsuccessful in this instance
Anyone from australia heard back if they were accepted or rejected yet?
Join Date: Mar 2009
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CaptainCourageous , I'm in the same boat as you - interviews in Melbourne just before x-mas, was expecting an answer within a week and still nothing. Having said that, CX no 1 mentioned in another thread (here's a link) that he also interviewed in Melbourne and hasn't heard back. He called CX recruitment who advised they'll have answers by the end of next week.
I'm expecting the worst but hoping for the best.
I'm expecting the worst but hoping for the best.
wowpeter
Apart from my interview question which was deliberately extreme to make people think, the living expenses are accurate. Remember expats tend to eat the foods they were brought up on and live in accommodation that resembles what they would live in at home. I love Asian food but couldn’t eat it all the time. I assume you are a local cadet therefore you were probably raised here. If this is the case your expectations are vastly different to that of an expat because this is your home. Try living in Dubai on EK’s package less housing and you will see where I am coming from.
How many will eventually have a family? Most.
How many of them will get married? Most.
How many of them will eventually have kids? Most.
The point I am making is you may think that only considering the “NOW” is the smart thing for these wannabes to consider but all it is doing is asking them to stick their heads in the sand. You and I know that most pilots at CX both direct entry and cadets are or will get married and have kids during their career here. Most will have done this within the first five years.
Actually I did assume the higher income on earnings but if you want to look at the Provident fund we can do that. Assuming no capital gain (because after all you could make a capital loss), the last five years contributions would amount to HK$1,928,353.00 assuming 10% contributions from the employee and 15.5% from the company. This is still well short of the extra income earned from housing assistance as a direct entry pilot of HK$7,065,780.00 which was also calculated based on no capital gain. Remember most direct entry pilots use the housing as a supplement to the provident fund because of its history of poor returns for those that have joined the company since 1997, i.e. defined contributions rather than defined benefits.
All decisions in life regardless of age should be based on weighing up the pro’s & con’s. To tell someone to do otherwise is irresponsible and extremely short sighted.
I don't want to get shot by "404Titan" as I think he have made some very good point, although a little bit on the extreme case.
How many cadets applicants have a family right now? Not many.
How many of them are even married now? Not many.
How many of them have kids now? Not Many.
How many of them are even dating now? Probably most.
How many of them are old than 25 now? Not many but hopefully all will eventually be.
How many of them are old than 25 now? Not many but hopefully all will eventually be.
I understand that being a cadet on local CEP contract, you will have a HKD7 million dollar income shortfall according to "404Titan" calculation, based on two pilots starting their career at 30 years of age... his calculation is valid up to a certain point, however, he did not consider higher income at a lower age and how that will impact your retirement fund value and package?
All decisions in life regardless of age should be based on weighing up the pro’s & con’s. To tell someone to do otherwise is irresponsible and extremely short sighted.
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no news...
hey i had my first interview roughly a week before christmas, I was told i would be notified within a week and 3 weeks later im still yet to hear back.
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I applied back in June, but have not heard from them, so I tried to go and update the old one, but they cannot accept one as mine is still being processed!? I know they just had the interviews in Canada at the time I applied, but I should be able to go and update my hours and licenses as a lot have happend in half a year. Should I go and make a new application?
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Heard back a couple of weeks back and was successful in gettting to the second round. Heading over to HKG this coming week. Done a lot of prep but still not entirely sure what to expect. Any tips from those who have been through the process or those “in the know”?