If your FO puts you down in subtle ways...

[Ignition Override]

Should you ever reply, and give him the satisfaction of knowing that you feel irked by his arrogance and style?

Let's assume that the captain is not at all confrontational-does this trait allow someone with nerve and lack of diplomacy to take advantage of the other pilots? Let's assume that the captain rarely says anything to the other guy unless it concerns flightdeck duties. The FO neve rmakes any compliment or positive comment to the capain, and the captain never criticizes anything, even gives him most legs from the hubs to the many spoke airports, without any thanks.

Recent examples:
1) He looks over and says, "I have to fly with you two more times next month".

2) At the gate: "You could reset the parking brake and make us one more minute of block time. Oh well, you are a slow learner".

2) You find out that your gate has an aircraft on it and it might be 20 minutes before you can park-but after asking Ramp Control to find another gate, the other pilot says "Well %^&*, you cost me twenty minutes of extra pay". He doesn't care if some passengers have fairly tight connections. Never mind that your crew needs to change planes with barely enough time for an unhurried preflight...

Over "here", an FO or FE can bid around a captain's payroll number, but you can not bid around them. Another pilot might have excellent skills, but having been a T-37 Instructor Pilot in the Air Force (and a C-141 AC) is no excuse for this style. Am fed up.

Any e-mails are always welcome.

[No_Speed_Restriction]

A subtle reminder that "its a long walk back" from wherever you came from should do the trick.

[Captain Mercurius]

Dear Ignition Override,

I sympathize with you problem.

Like you, I do not like to make negative comments to my crew.

But after some time off suffering from obnoxious individuals remarks who think that they are the “best pilot and man “ around , without any CRM skill or any interest in CRM rules or techniques, I think it is time to give these few guys the proper treatment they do deserve.

After the 30 minutes on chocks are over, sometimes, a “men conversation” must take place and let the idiot to know that his remarks are not welcome, nor required.

I am very sure his employer would like to know his point of view in playing with times to cash some extra bucks.

Try to keep cool.

Mercurius

[chuks]

Subtle?

If one guy telling the other that he's a 'slow learner' is subtle, what constitutes flagrant in your book?

There must be procedures in place to deal with this sort of abuse. Maybe it's just me but I had to put up with enough nonsense when I was in the right seat that I find myself oddly reluctant to put up with any coming from the right seat. Aside from possibly getting some time off the amount later spent in Purgatory, if your beliefs run that way, why bother putting up with this sort of thing at all? Isn't life just too short?

That Air Florida crash in Washington cited the FO's self-publicity, giving an inflated version of his previous Air Farce career, as one factor in the accident, so that good CRM might mean being able to speak up against this sort of 'putting down' without coming across as terminally rude or unreasonable.

I usually just have to point to the basic unfairness of life as the root cause of some Lone Eagle being forced to fly under the command of such people as me. That is about the only comfort I can give, while also pointing out that we can always go see the Chief Pilot if this situation is just insurmountable. So far this approach seems to have kept our little craft shiny side up.

[what who me?]

If your FO puts you down in subtle ways...




he might have a point......................?

[chuks]

You might have a point...

People who need to use 'putdowns' in the cockpit often have a point. I usually recommend one of those silly-looking wooly caps.

If you leave the other crew member feeling put down, even if that wasn't your intent, then you are having some sort of CRM problem that needs sorting out from at least the side of person feeling put down. Otherwise you have created a barrier to cross-crew communication that can often lead to some serious problem. For instance, someone is going to need to tell you something which you may ignore, feeling that 'It's just another put-down,' when it turns out that this time they were really serious about a real problem. When you read a bit of history about this sort of thing you come across many accidents that resulted from, basically, insecurity, hurt feelings and such trivial problems that were left unresolved.

I operate in a multi-racial, multi-cultural environment, one that is a real minefield for some misunderstood throw-away comment creating real trouble. Jokes are to be avoided at all costs, usually! It can be like the tale of the princess with a pea under her mattresses: a tiny irritant (to your mind) can create great discomfort in the mind of your other crew member. If you add to this someone deliberately using put-downs then you are definitely creating a CRM disaster-in-waiting.

[Bealzebub]

You are the Captain. It amounts to how bothered you are by these comments. In the first instance it may be worth considering if the individual really intends to put you down. Sometimes an individuals ability to relate to others isn't what might be best described as their strongest skill. It might be that the other persons comments are based on an erroneous assesment of your own sense of humour ? In any event if it bothers you then employ whatever method you see fit to attempt to rectify the situation.

In the examples you have given my own responses would have been :

Q1) "I have to fly with you 2 more times next month"

A1) If you ring this number ( crew control) they may be able to sort that out for you.
A1b) Great I will look forward to it !

Q2) " You could reset the parking brake and make us one more minute of block time. Oh well you are a slow learner."

A2) Perhaps young man but I am a fast teacher. When you move into this seat you will quickly learn that time is money and the company pays you to advocate its position.

Q3) "Well you cost me twenty minutes of extra pay"

A3) Yes sorry, but it probably saved the company money so I will have to console myself with the fact I might have saved you 6 months on an unemployment line.
A3b) I am sure you will be promoted in no time and that 20 minutes of lost pay will seem like nothing.

[Ignition Override]

Those are all valid points. Thank you.

Tomorrow I'll hand him my employee number on a sheet of paper which can be used in the "Avoid" category of computer bidding-if he still makes the sort of remarks which reflect his superior attitude.

[411A]

I have usually found, after nearly thirty years in command of heavy jet transports that the following works wonders....

'I am in command of the aircraft and I operate according to the laid down company policy. If, for some reason, you do not agree, the Fleet Manager is only a phone call away.'

This has worked every time.

I have not, nor will I put up with caustic comments from the RH seat...period.

In that 30 year period, only one First Officer complained to the fleet manager, and in this one case only, the concerned individual was de-moted to a lower fleet.

The fleet manager couldn't stand him either, apparently.

[toothpaste67]

If you have to say: I'm the Captain...and this is the way I/we do things ... you lost it!Try and read this book: Tony Kern, Controlling Pilot Error, Culture Environment, CRM. Or get some Airforce CRM instructors in your airline. If the only guy that ever spoke up got demoted, says a lot about your company saftey culture and how they deal with safety information- messengers get shot...OPEN and JUST? Good luck Cowboy!

[masalama]

Ignition Override,

Out of all the posts, I like Bealzebub's replies best....showing him/her that you are annoyed by his comments and using a bit of diplomacy in your response is usually the best long term answer to situations like these......
I can relate to this situation too .... I consider myself to be an easygoing captain and like to keep a cordial atmosphere in the cockpit but there are some guys who take advantage of that , maybe they're irritated at the fact that they've got all this experience and they should be direct-entry Operations managers but are stuck in the right seat with a younger/less life experienced captain . It's actually quite tricky but sometimes recognizing their extra skills and giving them extra responsibility does soothe their over-inflated and hurt egos.....
best of luck with this person and hopefully it works out for the better

[Albatros6]

Well, i can't change my coworker in the cockpit, however, among flying, i like most on my job that if the crew is boring, it's just a matter of day's. But if you have a fine crew, enjoy it, because, it's also just a matter of days.

Imagine working somwhere else, where you would stuck with this best-of-all-pilots...

But, always remember the one-and-only rule:

The Captain isn't always right, but, he is always the captain;-)))

[411A]

...lost it??

tp67,

No, it's not that the Captain has 'lost it' but rather dealing with a malcontent crew member who refuses to follow the plot.

Every airline has 'em, and many reside in the RH seat, feeling that they have somehow been maligned by the system, and many times strike back with sarcastic comments to other crew members (including the Commander) as wll as ground crew.

A couple of airlines that I worked for had First Officer assessment forms that were requested to be filled out each month by the concerned Captain...the two being scheduled together for a 28-30 day period.

I showed this form one time to a 'wiseguy' co-pilot, who oddly enough was in line for an upgrade to Command...and it turned his thinking around 180 degrees.
Mister nice guy, personified, he became...and went on to be a rather well thought of Captain.
IE: some guys need a wake up call, no matter how much it hurts.

[square leg]

I like Bealzebub's style.

If only 411A would make use of that style, then boy oh boy, we would have a perfect captain.

If an F/O needs a wake-up call to turn 180°, then it says a lot about his character, but at least he's on the right track afterwards.

You both have valid (good) comments, as do the others.

My thoughts: Don't take things personally. Discuss the issue there and then. Simply ask straight questions, but always with a smile and as Bealzebub suggests put the other guy "up", but in such a way that it makes him think about what you're saying, which leads him to question his own behaviour.

All too often, people who criticise others, are merely dissatisfied with something about themselves.

[The African Dude]

dungfunnel

"Just slap them, or constantly refer to them as "my f/o" instead of "the " whenever in public or talkin to the pax. if he has an ego prob that will be sweet revenge, usually as they wont admit it p1sses them off"

I don't know everything, but what you suggest would definitely make the situation worse.

Andy

[fireflybob]

Assertiveness training techniqes (and thats "assertive" NOT "agressive") say to be honest and open about feelings.

You might say "When you/say do (such and such)..., I feel put down"

Then explain what change in behaviour you would like, ie "please stop making these sort of comments as I find them annoying and I want us to both work as an effective team"

The last part may or may not be spoken depending on whether you have had words before!

ie "If you persist in making these comments then I will have to consider what action is appropriate etc".

Remember we want a Win/Win situation on the flight deck and people who make these type of comments are often insecure about their own position and trying to compensate for it.

[Slim20]

The F/Os who make these sort of comments tend to believe they should be doing the LHS job, and the criticism usually conveys their own frustration rather than any "high and mighty" attitude that they can do the job better than the current guy in the LHS. (Although I concede that some of them do!) This gains them a bad name among the captains and people begin to expect that they will have to endure various putdowns and veiled criticism whilst flying with them, which puts the whole day on edge.

Unsurprisingly, when they do become Captains, they are "grabby" about flying sectors, overly critical with their own F/Os, weak on CRM, and generally set the whole day on edge as you feel you will be flying with a martinet and more likely to make mistakes.

From the CRM p.o.v. these people should be taken aside early on and given a few home truths to prevent them dragging a legacy of bad crew co-operation for the balance of their flying career. In such cases the individual makes all the difference!

[Caractacus]

Shortly after I gained my command I had an FO (ex RAF Tornado pilot) who was clearly a frustrated Captain having spent a couple of years in the RHS. To make his 'point' he produced a teddy bear from his flight bag. He used the 'teddy bear' like a glove puppet and made it 'talk' to the Captain in a sarcastic way.

I had been a Captain for all of two days and really didn't need this twerp.

I simply said:

"Just when I thought I had seen everything, some guy shows you something new . . .)"

A simple, yet effective retort. Fortunately he calmed down. Just as well because the following two days round Europe proved highly demanding and I needed his support.

Which ever seat you are in you really must help the other pilot. Airline flying is a pure survival situation from the moment you board the aircraft.

Grown ups only please.

[GJB]

I think everyone from, every walk of life and profession can empathise with this situation.

Now while much is made of turning a negative situation into a positive or not creating barriers I think we must all ask ourselves when this will actually cease from being a gentle dig in the ribs to becoming a complete pain in the ar*e.

No text book will provide the answer as the answer is within you. Does the remark cause you offence this angers/infurites you in which caase it will inevitably be at the back of your mind for the rest of the flight or can you handle such throw away remarks without causing any build of bad feeling that will affect the flight.

How would I handle it? If it was of the 'throw away' type that didn't bother me eg I would acknowledge him with something light hearted. Eg in response to "i've got to fly with you twice next month" I might respond "You mean I've got to fly with you again? Remind me to go sick."

HOwever if I felt it sufficiently derogatory I would cut to the chase and explicitly state "I do not find your remarks or attitude condusive to a professional working environment. Whil

[paco]

Shame a little wall-to-wall counselling wouldn't help

phil