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-   -   Ash clouds threaten air traffic (https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/412103-ash-clouds-threaten-air-traffic.html)

ACARS 19th April 2010 16:07


How many of the chaps and chapesses out there remember how to fly VFR. Whats the betting they use the instruments!!
At hour 0 a pilot is taught to use his instruments flying VFR :ugh:

Bruce Wayne 19th April 2010 16:08


Quote:
Someone should strap a 737 to their ass and go out to fly a full day of simulated air carrier operations around Europe for the day. At night the boys in maintenance get the plane.
Nah I've got a better plan!
Someone should strap a 737 to their ass and go out to fly a full night of simulated air carrier operations around Europe for the night. During the day the boys in maintenance get the plane.http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...ies/tongue.gif
I'll do it and have no issue with performing it within given regulatory requirements.

luoto 19th April 2010 16:16

Have other pilot associations gave a view ? Seems the Finnish ones are being more cautious (and as a joke it is not brilliant summer house weather so they are not "happy" to be on holiday.

From STT.

The Finnish Pilots' Association (FPA) issued a statement Monday warning that it would not be wise to rush into restarting air traffic in spite of the volcanic ash cloud covering Europe.

According to the statement, FPA exhorted authorities in European countries to make decisions on opening their national airspaces on a safe and consistent basis.



STT also reported:

Finland's government is preparing for weeks of disruptions in air traffic but is confident that no threats to the citizens' safety are on the horizon, Matti Vanhanen (centre), Finland's prime minister, said at a news conference in Helsinki on Monday.

The prime minister assured reporters that for example medicines would not run out. "We have good existing reserve supplies so this is not a threat," Mr Vanhanen said.

Finland's National Emergency Supply Agency is investigating what would happen if the cloud of volcanic ash from Iceland remained above northern Europe for several weeks. However, nobody knows for how long the ash will cause problems, Mr Vanhanen added.

steamchicken 19th April 2010 16:19

Dr. Richard North is a professional politician.

FA10 19th April 2010 16:22


Skylight :

That is correct - Lufthansa will fly home to FRA up to 15.000 pax from Asia, US, S. America on a temporary exemption of the flight ban.

50 wide-bodies will be used, taking off later this evening from what the German press/TV is reporting.

Guess it's also pressure applied to the transport minister by the LH CEO Mayrhuber who pressed his views on national tv last night - the minister didn't look too good.

Well done / Gut gemacht, Lufhansa
Vereinigung Cockpit (VC) is heavily opposing the current VFR plan, that is being set up by LH.

Gut gemacht, VC! First good move after a long time!

BeechNut 19th April 2010 16:25


At hour 0 a pilot is taught to use his instruments flying VFR
Well it's been a while, but I seem to recall that while I was taught to scan essential instruments from time to time (airspeed, altitude & engine mainly with the ball added in turns), I was also taught to keep my head outside of the cockpit as much as possible and to use the real horizon, not the AI, as my attitude reference. Are things done differently these days?

Mind you it's been 30 odd years. My memory may be fuzzy on this. The effects of doing spins with a hangover, however, are seared in my memory for life! :}

Squawk_ident 19th April 2010 16:27

News for France
 
There's a meeting with our PM presently. It has been decided to re open the airspace tomorrow at 0600z and resume the air traffic. Lyon should reopen this evening. Some "corridors" should be open between Paris and southern France. EU stated that France is now out of the risk area. Don't know exactly what we have to understand by "corridor".

Oilhead 19th April 2010 16:33

Legal AND Safe. Certification and Flight Manual limitations on known flight into volcanic ash of any amount?

cherrylock 19th April 2010 16:33

I hear manchester is opening at 0900 tomorow all being well

ericlday 19th April 2010 16:35

From Airport Website
 
NATS has confirmed that UK airspace will progressively open tomorrow.

Consequently, Manchester Airport will be open from 09:00 on Tuesday 20 April 2010 unless there is a deterioration in conditions.

silverstrata 19th April 2010 16:36


I don't understand the confusion over this and desert flying. Sand in the desert is made of large grains of silica. They are rounded from years of abrasion and they won't have the same melt characteristics of the finer, sharper mica in the ash cloud, which being fine will melt more readily, will be deflected less by airflow direction changes (coating more of the engine interior) and being more abrasive.

The abrasion characteristics are rather similar actually. Most W. Oz jet aircraft ended up with painted leading edges, to stop the sand abrasion making holes in the leading edge - that's how bad the problem is.

The real difference, apparently, lies in the melting points.


.

22 Degree Halo 19th April 2010 16:39

Large plumes indicate that a second Icelandic volcano has begun erupting (Hekla) - watch LIVE http://bit.ly/hekla

Edit: Bogus news reports - Reuters first reported this...:ouch:

Mr Angry from Purley 19th April 2010 16:43

DHL launched a LEJ-JFK today, VFR for 80 miles on an approved routing then towards Spain before heading across pond.

AEST 19th April 2010 16:49


Large plumes indicate that a second Icelandic volcano has begun erupting (Hekla) - watch LIVE http://bit.ly/hekla
Beautiful, nothing could better demonstrate the incompetence of them politicians than having them open up when the BIG one fires up :ok:

benedikt 19th April 2010 16:49

ehm..no this is not correct - it's taken from a camera that usually monitors Hekla - the most active volcano in Iceland.

here is a nice flyby over the glacier and down to the valley the water flows.



pilot is Siguður Ásgeirsson not quite sure what heli he is flighing probably AS 350 or a jetranger.

silverstrata 19th April 2010 16:50


Caud:

Ground testing of engines with ash contaminants needs to be done, followed by air testing. I am not willing to be flying into unknown risk with or without passengers in a scenario that is going to affect all my engines, and I'm horrified at the arrogance and cavalier attitude of those who think this is all nothing and that we should get back in the air without proper scientific and engineering analysis.

That is not what we were calling for - but it may well happen due to the idiocy of those in power.

What we were calling for was daily test flights, even with knackered old Nimrods running on two engines (two at idle), to test the conditions out fully. With two airframes we could have collected 48 hours of running experience by now, in the thin and thick parts of the ash.

But no.

The 'rabbit in the headlights' powers that be were so scared of their own shadows, they would not allow anything to fly. Now, however, they cave in to pressure from big business and say - "ok, you can all fly".

So they have done the very worst thing - not do the testing, as we were calling for, and then fly anyway.


Lions led by donkeys.


.

Heli-Ice 19th April 2010 16:55

R22 & tcmel

Note that this camera was aimed at Hekla volcano but now it is aimed at Eyjafjallajokull glacier where the eruption is ongoing. That is what you are looking at.

Please check your information before posting, otherwise you may cause unnecessary concerns. :cool:

If you like to follow up on what is going on with the Icelandic volcanic eruption you can check the Civil Protection Departments website.

barossavalley 19th April 2010 17:12

Irish airspace reopening Wednesday 20th
 
Aer Lingus are expecting to operate a full trans-Atlantic service from tomorrow, flights to Spain and Portugal expected to operate as normal up to 1pm. They are awaiting further news about the afternoon services.

MPN11 19th April 2010 17:25

Looks like it's "Press to Test" time ... OMG, I might fly tomorrow :eek:

I accept the enormous Rumsfeld factor of "known unknowns" and all that, but I will admit to a degree of 'nervous' anticipation. Still, I can only die once. ;)

spornrad 19th April 2010 17:51

Switzerland LIDAR and balloon data
 
ETH Zuerich performed LIDAR and special aerosol-detecting balloon measurements:
http://www.ethlife.ethz.ch/archive_a...g_l3.jpg?hires
http://www.ethlife.ethz.ch/archive_a...llon.jpg?hires

Amazing similarity to the data obtained in UK although the distance to Iceland is 1360 nm.. Looks like well defined, relatively thin aerosol layers that descent over time.
The lead scientist was quoted saying that it smelled like the exhaust of a steam engine when perfoming a measurement flight during the weekend.
Maybe a web of observation posts may in the future be able to detect contaminated layers real time and allow for flight level based avoidance. Certainly distance/dispersal alone does not seem to suffice.


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