More sizemic activity on Eyjafjallajokull big brother Mt. Katla...

Órói á stöðvum við Eyjafjallajökul

Chemin
 

As you wrote...

"What I should have said was "ash" of course. Silly me. I was going to mention, but didn't, soot from the Kuwait oilfields that were ignited during the gulf war, which along with blowing sand, caused huge amounts of "clag" in the area, but did not stop operations.
However, if you think we are not dealing with "grit" and "silicon" what do you suggest it is that has been deposited on my car this morning?"

The danger is of the silicates, not silicon, melting and solidifying as they pass through a jet engine. The point is that if you are at the level where you think the precise composition of the stuff is unimportant, and that the effects of volcanic silicates are similar to those of desert sands or silicon and those of volcanic ash are similar to those of hydrocarbon ash, that suggests to me that you're not really engaging meaningfully with the problem.

My experience is that the melting behaviour of silicates is hugely variable, and that it would be essential to know what exactly was up there before trying to predict its effects on an engine.

No idea if this has anything to do with the colcanic ash, but I think it has not been mentioned that a Wideroe Dash 8-100 had an inflight engine shutdown today:

http://www.avherald.com/h?article=42a53334&opt=0

So Desk-pilot, what is your take on the "30 plus and rising" aircraft, from various airlines and various countries that are now showing up flying through the very heart of the "Volcanic Cloud"

It specifically says that it does not have anything to do with ash. The crew shut down because of oil pressure fluctuations.
Edit: the Widerøe that is ;)

Whippersnapper
 

Oh, now I understand. Will that be the reason that there has been so much damage reported to engines involved in the "test flights" ?
Dust/sand storms contain particles of greatly varying size, from recognizable "sand" at lower levels to dust particles measuring a few microns at 20,000 feet or more. So yes, I do believe it is a relevant analogy. Of course the different composition of a plume could have the results you mentioned, but happily, in these circumstances, it hasn't.

According to Eurocontrol the EU will come with a "plan" later today.
The "plan" will be in effect from 0600Z tomorrow. There is no further information at the moment.

re jim french flybe and willie(sack em all)walsh comments
 

further to my post
http://www.pprune.org/5644985-post1559.html

Jim French head of Flybe airlines at Exeter on BBC breakfast and Radio 5 this morning...
Quoted as saying the ash can be seen on aircraft radar...er since when?

Then just now Willie (sack em all) Walsh of BA said the no-fly ban is
unnecessary but in the next breath BBC says 4 NATO fighter jets damaged this morning because they flew through the ash clouds.

pffft

presumably if no damage was found on the flight yesterday (the test flight) - they'll be able to give a formal statement to that effect ?

BBC report that LH allowed to operate 50 a/c back to Germany with PAX.

Anyone have more details?

Ireland
 

Some talk around the IAA that Ireland my have some airspace restrictions lifted late am 2morrow

Sky news just indicated that Luththansa have been given permission to fly 50 passenger flights back to Germany.they have not said where from?!

From Airbus' own Flight Ops Briefing Notes:

" Nine VAAC have been designated by international organisations to provide expert advice to Meterological Watch Offices regarding the location and expected movement of volcanic ash clouds."

It would seem a paradox to set up an internationally recognised group of experts and then ignore their advice. Mind you it wouldn't be the first time!

It appears that due to commercial pressure from airlines, the resolve is beginning to crack.

It will be interesting to see how history judges this albeit continuing situation.

My totally unqualified judgment, based simply on the both appalling and laughable history of the MET Services and the crippling, pathetic directives from the Health and Safety bodies, that this will collapse, thrashing its little legs, straight into the same little box.

Belgian F18 or ASAF F16's apart, lets wait and see what "catastrophic" effects occur to the rapidly increasing number of civil aircraft currently ploughing their weary way through the "Volcanic Cloud"

Any down yet ???

Also uk airspace planned to be opened up from 06.00 (scottish airspace)Midlands at 12.00 and southern uk at 18.00 following the reduction in volcanic activity!
Not set in stone...just maximising a potential window....

Nice choice of words (Pompeii in mind...)

I suppose these early pioneers will have the engines borescoped pretty regularly - the 'airtests' of yesterday were only of a few hours duration. The cumulative effects of 20, 50, 100 hours flying will be the proof of the pudding.

The only slight concern is that all engines on each a/c will have operated in the same conditions, so if one were to suffer contam. the others would be in a similar state.

Here's hoping that all will be well.

Belgium does not have F18's it was a Finnish one.

in these situations - if an airline asks for flights to go ahead - is it still the captains final decision on whether that particular flight is safe or not ?

Bruce Wayne


Finally some data to put things in perspective:ok:

The safety first crowd and running a business with maintainence related decision making can finally come to an agreement with data and a risk management approach.

The aviation industry, manufacturers, operators and regulators know how to manage safety and what data is necessary. Unfortunately it is taking too long to sort this out but we will get there.

We just seem to get conflicting view points in discussion forums like this from folks who have no experience in risk management.

The cloud is neither black nor white

I'm glad to see they are going to open it up in "stages." This will give the guys in SAR a chance to grab a bite to eat in the middle of their very busy day.

Someone should strap a 737 to their ass and go out to fly a full day of simulated air carrier operations around Europe for the day. At night the boys in maintenance get the plane. Do this for at least three days and then release the rest of the fleet. Bird number one would always get extra special handling each night for the next month or two because it would be the bird in the mine.

Problem with this theory is PW, RR & GE only have so many spare parts. If the entire fleet runs out of engine parts in a month or two everyone will really be up in arms except PW, RR & GE who will tack on an extra 100% to every "expedited" part.