Boys and Girls a bit of the topic and might be a stupid question, is there such a thing as a PPM (sand) used by engine manufactures for certification. I have never heard of it but I am assured there is.

We will, but you guys won't be satisfied before one/all of our engines goes quiet. You're in for a looong wait there on the ground :ok:

Well, even if it was, it would be completely unrelated, as volcanic ash is not sand, and sand is not volcanic ash. They have vastly different properties in a jet engine.

afterthoughts
 

Now that it looks like we all are a little bit more sure of our jobs, some considerations.

Was the closure a conservative decision?: I think it was.

Was it too conservative?
I think is wasn't; we simply did not no enough about this ash-thing which notably never affected Europe this way since the jet era.

Do we need to improve the way we deal with it in the future and make it more dynamic as per the Eurocontrol press release?
Absolutely, even the beancounters may now be convinced of spending money on that.

However:
CEO's flying "test" flights (without measuring equipment, i.e. if they would have damaged the engines we would not know what concentration and type of ash did that, where and when) may have a case at this time, but consider this:

Suppose the METOffice, NATS, or Eurocontrol would have come up with a plan to create a grid of LIDARs in Europe, have a number of specialized aircraft at standby, and of course hire the people to gather, analyse and conclude from the data they produce. Suppose they would have suggested to pay for this trough an extra "volcanic observation charge". Would the airlines have agreed to this two weeks ago?

Hopefully, they will now, so that we can indeed fly around actual ash in stead of our best possible prediction.

Lets get back to what everyone (ANSPs, METOffice and Eurocontrol included) wants, flying tubes of aluminium through a superheated vapor!

00nix

Very interesting post, but I have a practical question. Most probably will fly again from tomorrow on and this in the "affected" areas. Where do we find updated and accurate charts/pictures/forecasts about this ash cloud over Europe?

There are three key principles we are working on:

1. there can be no compromise on safety;
RIGHT. NOTHING IS MORE IMPORTANT. WELL EXCEPT MAYBE PROFITS.

2. the work must be based on scientific evidence;
AND IF THERE IS NONE THAN THERE IS OBVIOUSLY NO PROBLEM.

3. we must facilite co-ordinated European solutions if we are to find a way forwards.
TRANSLATION: YOU NEED TO DO WHAT THE AIRLINES TELL YOU TO DO OR YOU WILL BE LOOKING FOR ANOTHER JOB.

4. AND IF THE JAA OPENS THE AIRSPACE SAYING IT IS SAFE ENOUGH THE AIRLINES ARE NO LONGER CULPABLE FOR ANY ACCIDENTS. THE GOVERNMENT WILL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY DEATHS, ACCIDENTS OR INJURIES. HEY, THEY ARE THE REGULATORS, THE AIRLINES JUST PROVIDE A SERVICE.

Minedog...try this link to MET Office ash updates

Met Office: Volcanic Ash Advisory Centres

Halfnut,

Did you manage to write that all by yourself or did an idiot help you with it ?

Update to Volcanic Ash Plume — 1855 on Monday 19 April 2010

Volcanic ash can be seen spreading southwards from Iceland (shown as a plume of orange and red colours on the satellite imagery). Up to date information from the Icelandic Met Office suggests the volcano is now erupting ash to a height of between 3 and 5 Km. Issued at 1854 on Mon 19 Apr 2010.

Met Office: Icelandic volcano blog

God save us...
 

... from the "expert" on the early evening news, who said something like "if an aircraft flies through volcanic ash, then all the engines will fail, it will crash and everyone on board will die" - rather an alarmist generalisation, I would suggest :mad:

how much pressure will pilots be under now ? assuming they have final say on safety ? is it still ok these days for a pilot to say no - that route at that time is unsafe ?

mystic meg, I was also shocked by this statement from, I believe, a mechanical engineer! Be interesting to see if the Beeb rerun the clip on the later news.

Eurocrats say "as you were"
 

According to the Times: "Airspace over Britain will progressively reopen tomorrow starting at 7am, with a dramatic reduction in the no-fly zone over Europe agreed by EU transport ministers after a video conference this afternoon. "

Translation: "the cost of the shutdown has now exceeded the cost of a downed aircraft so its time to get back to work - at least until the first one comes down".

Eurocrats on CNN claiming they are opening airspace "on a scientific" basis, as well as claiming unity (and peace?) amongst European nations.

When questioned about the scientific basis, the babble began flowing about how they've managed to defuse any responsibility completely so nobody will know who actually made the decision!!!

Immediately followed by a Guy from Cranfield University that dryly observes that after fligts these last days the ash if anything as become MORE dense up there over the UK. :ok:

BBC News - Iceland volcano in maps

Wonder who was that flying into Denmark.

Roy Hudd et al,

maybe the reason the naysayers have gone quiet is because there is nothing to add at this moment. The reason airspace is becoming available is becasue the Ash Charts, produced every 6 hours, show a reduction in the extent and coverage of the ash cloud.

A reduction that is totally in line with the fact that scientists have been saying over the past two days that the intensity and frequency of eruptions has been falling.

The return of airspace has nothng whatsoever to do with the publicity stunt flight by BA which has as much scientific credential as a Loreal shampoo advert.

Does anyone have any news what the Canadians are doing about their visit from the ash yet?

what do people make of the latest metoffice press release ?

Met Office: Icelandic volcano eruption

Volcanic ash cloud
 

That LHR will likely not reopen on tuesday evening! However, if the wind over Iceland changes as expected tonight then an opening by say wednesday p.m. is probably reasonable.

Cranfield University understanding of "URGENT"
 

AEST,

Cranfield University are known to be somewhat slow, as they have already taken three years to identify the toxic chemicals in visible oil fumes in a BAe 146 on the ground.

The Cranfield University report into airline Cabin Air Quality

Maybe they will tell us on election day - 6th May?

DB :oh: